August 3, 2013 at 11:46 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Changing SQLServerCentral - Initial Thoughts
August 3, 2013 at 6:38 pm
I think the site is fantastic and comprehensive without getting too "techie." Especially since it is so code oriented in some sections I think sections related to coding need lots of white space. Some sites throw so much junk on the page that it gets annoying just trying to follow a simple thread.
One possible addition could be a sandbox section connected to (for example) the AdventureWorks database and maybe even the different versions of SQL. This would allow testing our solutions to a forum question for example without having to have access to SSMS (as when at home or traveling). It would also allow testing new functionality of upgraded versions that a lot of us don't have access to yet in our work environments.
August 5, 2013 at 1:51 am
Well, I like the site as it is, but sometimes you don't appreciate what improvements can be made until somebody shows you.
As for changing the logo, I'd need a new shirt...
August 5, 2013 at 2:16 am
I don't agree with you - the site is as it should be easy and simple in design.
I don't know why something has to be changed for the only reason it has to be changed... and mostly the changes are for the bad.
One example is your new newsletter - sorry but the new design is crap!
-> so please leave the webpages as the are! Save us the time to cope with something new and you the time to do something what is not really necessary.
//Sarus
August 5, 2013 at 5:32 am
Sarus1984 (8/5/2013)
I don't agree with you - the site is as it should be easy and simple in design.I don't know why something has to be changed for the only reason it has to be changed... and mostly the changes are for the bad.
One example is your new newsletter - sorry but the new design is crap!
-> so please leave the webpages as the are! Save us the time to cope with something new and you the time to do something what is not really necessary.
//Sarus
I don't agree at all with Sarus1984. Some changes are needed: better article editor, picking the right article to quote (the one in whose header the quote button is) instead of counting from the bottom of the page as it would be if refreshed now, ability to view one's questions after acceptance and before publication, stop comments pushing the horizontal capacity so that the whole page of responses is using 2732 pixels width (or something getting on that way) forcing horizontal scrolling just about everywhere, and so on and so on. There are a lot of things wrong with the site, things that will be understood and whose repair needs to be designed by HCI experts and by developers.
Unfortunately, the resource available for fixing appears to consist of people whose expertise is in producing layouts that conform to the latest passing fad or fashion and have no concept of what interface design is actually about, or how to determine what is required of an interface and ensure that it meets that requirement. I think that's what Steve has told us in some of his comments, although of course he didn't use those exact words. Actually my comment is a bit OTT, and I suppose the people concerned have more of a clue than my comment suggests (I don't imagine that Red Gate employs deadbeats), but we do seem to have been hit by change for change's sake and what I've seen inclines me to think that it was purely fashion-driven with no thought for the impact on users other than tablet and smartphone users (simply because tablets and smartphones are currently the height of fashion).
So we shouldn't be against change. As Jeff says, change is inevitable. I'll add to that: some change is beneficial. But, paraphrasing Jeff, it isn't inevitable that that inevitable change is beneficial, and that's unfortunate. And we seem to have been hit y some non-beneficial (fashion-driven) change.
Tom
August 5, 2013 at 6:03 am
I'll leave the quibbles on details to others but all I can say is of all the sites of this type I have looked at the overall look and feel of SSC is by far the best.
The design of the question and answer threads which are the bedrock of the site is clear and concise and easy to follow, so I really don't see a need to move too far from what we have now.
I am not a designer so maybe I just don't have the ability to imagine improvements, but I would vote for evolution rather than revolution.
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August 5, 2013 at 7:41 am
I also vote for leaving the site as-is from a design perspective, focusing on fixing any known bugs. I also vote for returning to the old newsletter format - I dislike the new format a lot.
August 5, 2013 at 8:02 am
First of all thank you for doing this site, it is one of my favorite resources! While I am not against changing the look of the site I personally think functionality is key and hopefully now that we more or less know where to find stuff on the site, the new design will not require spending too much time figuring that all out again from scratch 🙂
August 5, 2013 at 8:35 am
I'll admit I'm mostly ambivalent about the newsletter change, though I prefer the older version only because it was easier on the old eyeballs.
And I must admit I'm not all that thrilled about the Windows8-style icons on the website. I know eventually I'll have to put up with them on my computer, but you guys can do better. I know this because doing better is why I come here every morning. Those things have no personality.
____________
Just my $0.02 from over here in the cheap seats of the peanut gallery - please adjust for inflation and/or your local currency.
August 5, 2013 at 9:09 am
I also subscribe to a web designer newsletter. I totally disagree with articles that propose updating logos, icons, etc. just to make them more "modern".
Responsive design includes recognizing the format of the user's device, so if your designers want to improve the look and feel for users of smartphones - great idea! But I don't own a smartphone, and the new newsletter looks like it is optimized for smartphone users. I prefer a landscape layout with minimal scrolling, so as long as your designers can use responsive design concepts, and not rearrange the look for traditional PC users, it would be greatly appreciated.
August 5, 2013 at 9:46 am
Thank you for providing such a great site! I've learned so much from this site, not to mention the links to various blogs, free training, webcast, SQLSaturdays, etc.
I hope you don't have to pick between users of smartphones and traditional PC users. I happen to be a traditional PC user, I do all my work/training from a PC with a good size monitor.
I consider this site a "work site" and I do not see myself ever trying to work with SQL Server from a smartphone, but that is my choice and I may be in the minority.
I hope for my eyes' sake you can find a comprimise that works for both device types.
Thanks again.
August 5, 2013 at 9:50 am
Thanks for all the comments. It's not just change for change's sake, but because some things are hard to find and it isn't easy for new users to find things. We also want to highlight items, like the Stairways, which aren't easily understood by many people.
Believe me, some of you may think this is easy to use, but that comes from a place of experience, not good design.
I agree on a few of your points, and will be tackling them in a few more pieces.
August 5, 2013 at 9:57 am
I consider myself a newbie developer, and I use SSC quite a bit because, in general, there is a good mix of code and fully formed English sentences. I like the fact that much of the page real estate is dedicated to content, but appreciate the fact that the lights are turned on by the flashing gizmos on the page. 🙂 My favorite content formation is the stairways. I find those to be a very nice packaging of a series of useful information, and I have on multiple occasions used those sets of content to greatly expand my knowledge in an area.
If I was going to request a feature that would be very useful to me, I would like to see a tool that integrates / provides some of the articles on SSC as help / suggestions directly in Management Studio when i am writing code. I can see where newbies benefit from the syntatic suggestions, but I think seniors in coding could benefit from tools that recognize a coding construct and get suggestions around new coding constructs that are more efficient etc.
Second, if you were making a choice between having developers create more content and having developers make a UI modern, my vote would be for the content, specifically more stairways. Even time spent taking existing articles and packaging them into a stairway would be a great use of time in forming real knowledge. Someday the scales will put enough need on a UI to require its update, but for now I would prefer the content!
Just my $.02... OH and by the way, whatever you do. Just keep doing it because what you do is appreciated!
August 5, 2013 at 10:12 am
Steve - I have only had two things that over 12 years of use I would recommend in any new updates to the site. These things are not IMHO driven by any UI Fad but items that are on other sites similar to this one that seriously add to their functionality.
1. For the question and answer forum posts a way to Vote or Mark the answers that work. The ability to see what answer actually worked for a poster is invaluable. The ability to see if it worked for or was voted on as a good answer by others is an amazing thing when trying to find the best answer/solution for your question. stackoverflow.com and social.msdn.microsoft.com forms do this and it is a huge help for those that need to use it when validating a solution that has been posted.
2. Ability for persons posting QOTD questions to see exactly what the site users will see and test that it works as expected. I have used this site to post QOTD (not as PhyDataDBA obviously) several times in the past. Many times my question was published with text and selections that showed and operated in way that was very different than what I expected. I know that I am not the only person that has experienced this.
These are the only things that I have ever seen lacking in this site. I must say that I wish other sites that are used as much as yours is daily worked as well.
August 5, 2013 at 10:20 am
jake_church (8/5/2013)
If I was going to request a feature that would be very useful to me, I would like to see a tool that integrates / provides some of the articles on SSC as help / suggestions directly in Management Studio when i am writing code. I can see where newbies benefit from the syntatic suggestions, but I think seniors in coding could benefit from tools that recognize a coding construct and get suggestions around new coding constructs that are more efficient etc.
We've experimented with a script plug in for SSMS. I need to check where this is in deployment.
Second, if you were making a choice between having developers create more content and having developers make a UI modern, my vote would be for the content, specifically more stairways. Even time spent taking existing articles and packaging them into a stairway would be a great use of time in forming real knowledge. Someday the scales will put enough need on a UI to require its update, but for now I would prefer the content!
Just my $.02... OH and by the way, whatever you do. Just keep doing it because what you do is appreciated!
thanks, but as I mentioned in the piece, developers don't create UI stuff. Nor do we have them building content. Developers are changing the code on the sites only, though mostly on Simple Talk lately. It's not a resource allocation in that perspective. If it were, I'd agree with you that them doing UI work would not be good.
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