can we get this guy banned from the forums?????

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can we get this guy banned from the forums?????

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SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 1

Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
I'm not saying his behavior is acceptable. I'm certainly not saying he hasn't annoyed me at times. But when people go off ranting about him on public forums that can be Googled and seen by anyone, and by extension encouraging other people to do the same, you're encouraging a cyber-bullying mentality that is only going to make him stick to his guns all that much more.

+10

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 2

Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
Lynn Pettis (6/19/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
Guys, I know that he makes you crazy with his strict adherence on the ISO stuff, but have you ever bothered to wonder why he gets more and more adamant about his beliefs when the entire world is trying to shout him down and say "You're wrong?"
I'm not saying his behavior is acceptable. I'm certainly not saying he hasn't annoyed me at times. But when people go off ranting about him on public forums that can be Googled and seen by anyone, and by extension encouraging other people to do the same, you're encouraging a cyber-bullying mentality that is only going to make him stick to his guns all that much more.
Celko is fighting back against a culture that he perceives of not only allowing sloppy coding, but encourage it and bad administrative behavior. I don't agree with everything he says, but as others have said in the past, he does make good points if you can find them buried in everything else he is saying.
The forums are not supposed to be a place where people cut other people down, no matter how much one disagrees with them. We're adults. We're supposed to be better than this. Our behavior is starting to resemble heavy indirect mob bullying. Is this behavior really what we want future employers to know about us?
Brandie,
There are better ways for him to get his point across. He has a lot to give to the community and I would listen to him more if he would back off the always write ANSI standard and don't use anything dialect specific code band wagon. If he would approach each problem from the perspective of actually trying to understand the problem and provide a solution to the problem using his style of coding. Helping people by showing them a beter way to accomplish a task. Teach by example, not by degrading the OP. Insulting people, telling them they don't know anything, that doesn't help.
Oh, and some of the solutions he has proposed, wouldn't even work on some of the versions of SQL Server that people are using today. Really, what good is a non working solution?
I don't disagree with any of that, Lynn. What I'm worried about is that everyone is jumping on the "so-n-so is rude so let's talk trash behind his back" bandwagon. It's so easy to escalate from one person to other people, to get really vicious. And even easier after that to apply it to anyone that torques us off without considering that the person in question may not have intended any such thing.
Let me ask it this way. Does tearing down Celko really contribute anything to the forums or to ourselves as professionals?
The irony of me asking this after I called him out on another thread this morning does not escape me, BTW.

How many people would say the same things if meeting with the so-n-so face to face?

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

Lynn Pettis SSC Guru Points: 442467 More actions · Answer 3

SQLRNNR (6/19/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
Lynn Pettis (6/19/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
Guys, I know that he makes you crazy with his strict adherence on the ISO stuff, but have you ever bothered to wonder why he gets more and more adamant about his beliefs when the entire world is trying to shout him down and say "You're wrong?"
I'm not saying his behavior is acceptable. I'm certainly not saying he hasn't annoyed me at times. But when people go off ranting about him on public forums that can be Googled and seen by anyone, and by extension encouraging other people to do the same, you're encouraging a cyber-bullying mentality that is only going to make him stick to his guns all that much more.
Celko is fighting back against a culture that he perceives of not only allowing sloppy coding, but encourage it and bad administrative behavior. I don't agree with everything he says, but as others have said in the past, he does make good points if you can find them buried in everything else he is saying.
The forums are not supposed to be a place where people cut other people down, no matter how much one disagrees with them. We're adults. We're supposed to be better than this. Our behavior is starting to resemble heavy indirect mob bullying. Is this behavior really what we want future employers to know about us?
Brandie,
There are better ways for him to get his point across. He has a lot to give to the community and I would listen to him more if he would back off the always write ANSI standard and don't use anything dialect specific code band wagon. If he would approach each problem from the perspective of actually trying to understand the problem and provide a solution to the problem using his style of coding. Helping people by showing them a beter way to accomplish a task. Teach by example, not by degrading the OP. Insulting people, telling them they don't know anything, that doesn't help.
Oh, and some of the solutions he has proposed, wouldn't even work on some of the versions of SQL Server that people are using today. Really, what good is a non working solution?
I don't disagree with any of that, Lynn. What I'm worried about is that everyone is jumping on the "so-n-so is rude so let's talk trash behind his back" bandwagon. It's so easy to escalate from one person to other people, to get really vicious. And even easier after that to apply it to anyone that torques us off without considering that the person in question may not have intended any such thing.
Let me ask it this way. Does tearing down Celko really contribute anything to the forums or to ourselves as professionals?
The irony of me asking this after I called him out on another thread this morning does not escape me, BTW.
How many people would say the same things if meeting with the so-n-so face to face?

I would, but I have no desire to meet him.

edna.e.sullivan SSC Rookie Points: 45 More actions · Answer 4

Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
.... But when people go off ranting about him on public forums that can be Googled and seen by anyone, and by extension encouraging other people to do the same, you're encouraging a cyber-bullying mentality ... and
The forums are not supposed to be a place where people cut other people down, no matter how much one disagrees with them. We're adults. We're supposed to be better than this. Our behavior is starting to resemble heavy indirect mob bullying. Is this behavior really what we want future employers to know about us?

Thank you for pointing this out. While not generally being very sensitive to insult myself, I have in the past few years been made increasingly aware of large numbers of professionals in various aspects of the digital world who are so put-off by the bullying/disrespectful/angry/nature of many forums that they have removed themselves from all such communication. I believe the world is a less well off due to their absence, and so would like to see us encourage civil response. One does not have to agree with everything everyone says, but be aware of their human nature and behave accordingly. And be aware that when it is tempting to be rude to someone, be it electronically or face-to-face, onlookers who overhear/see the rude comments are more likely to perceive the person being rude as lacking than to pass judgement on the target of the rudeness.