June 15, 2012 at 11:55 am
Cadavre (6/11/2012)
My apologies, it was never my intention to kick off this little storm :blush:--edit--
Having read through it all, I think it all started due to my laziness in quoting Michael's loop rather than actually typing out how I'd have actually answered it. My bad 😀
If you think my original post was not well formatted, check out the original from this topic:
http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=79902
[font="Courier New"]declare @ char(3)set @=0while @<100begin set @=@+1print case when @%15=0then'FizzBuzz'when @%3=0then'Fizz'when @%5=0then'Buzz'else @ end end[/font]
I actually reformatted it for readability before posting it here. :laugh:
This post was even more NZDF:
[font="Courier New"]declare @ int set @=0while @<100begin set @=@+1 print left(@,sign(@%3*@%5)*3)+left('fizz',4-sign(@%3)*4)+left('buzz',4-sign(@%5)*4)end[/font]
June 18, 2012 at 3:38 am
Lynn Pettis (6/11/2012)
How about Mr. Celko? I don't know why, but everytime I read one of his posts my blood pressure rises about 20 points.
likewise
MVDBA
June 18, 2012 at 2:41 pm
michael vessey (6/18/2012)
Lynn Pettis (6/11/2012)
How about Mr. Celko? I don't know why, but everytime I read one of his posts my blood pressure rises about 20 points.likewise
Ditto.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Check out my blog at https://pianorayk.wordpress.com/
June 18, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Cadavre (5/24/2012)
Fizzbuzz is your evil interview? Really? It's as old as dirt (as are the solutions) 😛
WITH t1 AS (SELECT 1 N UNION ALL SELECT 1 N),t2 AS (SELECT 1 N FROM t1 x, t1 y),
t3 AS (SELECT 1 N FROM t2 x, t2 y),
tally AS (SELECT ROW_NUMBER() OVER (ORDER BY (SELECT NULL)) AS number
FROM t3 x, t3 y)
SELECT t.number,
CASE WHEN t.number%3 = 0 AND t.number%5 = 0
THEN 'FizzBuzz'
WHEN t.number%3 = 0
THEN 'Fizz'
WHEN t.number%5 = 0
THEN 'Buzz'
ELSE CONVERT(VARCHAR(3),t.number)
END AS result
FROM tally t
WHERE t.number <= 100 AND t.number >= 1;
--edit--
Oh, and as for banning - I say "no". You don't have to answer them, you can ignore anyone you wish. If people start getting banned for asking "basic questions", where does the line get drawn? Who draws the lines?
Agree on the no.
Remembering the fun that little fizzbuzz contest turned out to be. There is plenty of that (fizzbuzz solutions) to find here in the SSC forums.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
June 18, 2012 at 7:52 pm
Ray K (6/18/2012)
michael vessey (6/18/2012)
Lynn Pettis (6/11/2012)
How about Mr. Celko? I don't know why, but everytime I read one of his posts my blood pressure rises about 20 points.likewise
Ditto.
They finally had enough of him over on SQLTeam, and locked his accounts about 9 months ago.
Where did celko go?
http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=165360
I just tend to ignore him, like some crazy old drunk who sets in a bar and mumbles to himself about "ANSI SQL".
June 19, 2012 at 2:30 am
if i ever see one of his ISO xxxx posts i think i may scream
MVDBA
June 19, 2012 at 4:30 am
Guys, I know that he makes you crazy with his strict adherence on the ISO stuff, but have you ever bothered to wonder why he gets more and more adamant about his beliefs when the entire world is trying to shout him down and say "You're wrong?"
I'm not saying his behavior is acceptable. I'm certainly not saying he hasn't annoyed me at times. But when people go off ranting about him on public forums that can be Googled and seen by anyone, and by extension encouraging other people to do the same, you're encouraging a cyber-bullying mentality that is only going to make him stick to his guns all that much more.
Celko is fighting back against a culture that he perceives of not only allowing sloppy coding, but encourage it and bad administrative behavior. I don't agree with everything he says, but as others have said in the past, he does make good points if you can find them buried in everything else he is saying.
The forums are not supposed to be a place where people cut other people down, no matter how much one disagrees with them. We're adults. We're supposed to be better than this. Our behavior is starting to resemble heavy indirect mob bullying. Is this behavior really what we want future employers to know about us?
June 19, 2012 at 6:37 am
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
. . . but as others have said in the past, he does make good points if you can find them buried in everything else he is saying . . .
But to me, that's the point. Okay, great, he might have valid points, but if he's going to obfuscate them with his bulls**t attitude, who's going to care if he's right or not?
If you're going to make a point, use a carrot and a stick, not a hammer.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Check out my blog at https://pianorayk.wordpress.com/
June 19, 2012 at 6:47 am
Ray K (6/19/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
. . . but as others have said in the past, he does make good points if you can find them buried in everything else he is saying . . .But to me, that's the point. Okay, great, he might have valid points, but if he's going to obfuscate them with his bulls**t attitude, who's going to care if he's right or not?
If you're going to make a point, use a carrot and a stick, not a hammer.
Celko himself on his behaviour:
Q6: You’re sometimes perceived as a bit of an ANSI SQL zealot and as being a bit acerbic toward people on newsgroups who don’t agree with you. Do you think this is a fair perception? Would you change it if you could? What do you have to say to your critics about it?
A6: It a fair perception and it is deliberate. My wife is a Soto Zen Monk who could beat you with a stick, so I am a pussy cat. I do it to get the attention of the poster.
Look at most of the posters in the newsgroups. They do not post DDL -- often because they have no idea what it is -- and invent their own pseudo-code. They have no idea what a spec is, but post requests for ways to implement an approach they have locked into -- and it is usually a non-relational approach at that.
What we have are some really lazy programmers who want to use the newsgroups to do their job or homework for them. Even worse, they want to get an instant college education which is not possible in a short reply. The questions they ask can most often be answered by (1) RTFM, well BOL (2) "Try it and see" (3) a quick Google search in the newsgroup to which they are posting.
What they get instead from most replies is a kludge to get rid of them. If this was a woodworking newsgroup and someone posted "What is the best kind of rocks to pound screws into fine furniture?" are you really helping them when you say "Granite! Use big hunks of granite!" I am the guy who replies with "Your question is bad. Don't you know about screwdrivers?" And I like to remind them that it takes six years to become a Journeyman Union Carpenter in New York State. Not Master, Journeyman.
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
MCSE Business Intelligence - Microsoft Data Platform MVP
June 19, 2012 at 7:13 am
Koen Verbeeck (6/19/2012)
Ray K (6/19/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
. . . but as others have said in the past, he does make good points if you can find them buried in everything else he is saying . . .But to me, that's the point. Okay, great, he might have valid points, but if he's going to obfuscate them with his bulls**t attitude, who's going to care if he's right or not?
If you're going to make a point, use a carrot and a stick, not a hammer.
Celko himself on his behaviour:
Q6: You’re sometimes perceived as a bit of an ANSI SQL zealot and as being a bit acerbic toward people on newsgroups who don’t agree with you. Do you think this is a fair perception? Would you change it if you could? What do you have to say to your critics about it?
A6: It a fair perception and it is deliberate. My wife is a Soto Zen Monk who could beat you with a stick, so I am a pussy cat. I do it to get the attention of the poster.
Look at most of the posters in the newsgroups. They do not post DDL -- often because they have no idea what it is -- and invent their own pseudo-code. They have no idea what a spec is, but post requests for ways to implement an approach they have locked into -- and it is usually a non-relational approach at that.
What we have are some really lazy programmers who want to use the newsgroups to do their job or homework for them. Even worse, they want to get an instant college education which is not possible in a short reply. The questions they ask can most often be answered by (1) RTFM, well BOL (2) "Try it and see" (3) a quick Google search in the newsgroup to which they are posting.
What they get instead from most replies is a kludge to get rid of them. If this was a woodworking newsgroup and someone posted "What is the best kind of rocks to pound screws into fine furniture?" are you really helping them when you say "Granite! Use big hunks of granite!" I am the guy who replies with "Your question is bad. Don't you know about screwdrivers?" And I like to remind them that it takes six years to become a Journeyman Union Carpenter in New York State. Not Master, Journeyman.
This is not an acceptable explanation to me, and in fact, I really take HUGE exception to being referred to as a "lazy programmer." By far, my biggest pet peeve -- to the point, in fact, that it's guaranteed to make an enemy out of me -- is to have my intelligence (or work ethic) insulted. I am not, as he puts it, a ". . . really lazy programmers who want to use the newsgroups to do their job or homework for them . . . " Whenever I ask a question, it's because I am legitimately stuck on something, I don't know the answer, and I'm seeking help. I don't pretend I know everything, and I don't try. In fact, SQL is not even my main line of work or even my forte. However, I do enough of it that I troll around these forums once in a while. (Granted, admittedly, I've been spending more time around the "anything not related to SQL" forums lately, but that's neither here nor there.)
If you're going to help me with something, treat me as an equal and a professional, not as an underling. I expect and demand to be treated with respect. If you're not going to do that, then don't f**king bother responding to me.
</rant>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Check out my blog at https://pianorayk.wordpress.com/
June 19, 2012 at 7:19 am
Easy easy 🙂
That interview is 5 years old, I'm sure he is not talking about you 😀
He's also not saying that everybody is a lazy programmer, just "most of the posters in the newsgroups".
I wouldn't exactly say that most forum posters are lazy, but I've met a few who certainly are.
However, that doesn't give me the right to insult everyone.
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
MCSE Business Intelligence - Microsoft Data Platform MVP
June 19, 2012 at 9:07 am
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
Guys, I know that he makes you crazy with his strict adherence on the ISO stuff, but have you ever bothered to wonder why he gets more and more adamant about his beliefs when the entire world is trying to shout him down and say "You're wrong?"I'm not saying his behavior is acceptable. I'm certainly not saying he hasn't annoyed me at times. But when people go off ranting about him on public forums that can be Googled and seen by anyone, and by extension encouraging other people to do the same, you're encouraging a cyber-bullying mentality that is only going to make him stick to his guns all that much more.
Celko is fighting back against a culture that he perceives of not only allowing sloppy coding, but encourage it and bad administrative behavior. I don't agree with everything he says, but as others have said in the past, he does make good points if you can find them buried in everything else he is saying.
The forums are not supposed to be a place where people cut other people down, no matter how much one disagrees with them. We're adults. We're supposed to be better than this. Our behavior is starting to resemble heavy indirect mob bullying. Is this behavior really what we want future employers to know about us?
Brandie,
There are better ways for him to get his point across. He has a lot to give to the community and I would listen to him more if he would back off the always write ANSI standard and don't use anything dialect specific code band wagon. If he would approach each problem from the perspective of actually trying to understand the problem and provide a solution to the problem using his style of coding. Helping people by showing them a beter way to accomplish a task. Teach by example, not by degrading the OP. Insulting people, telling them they don't know anything, that doesn't help.
Oh, and some of the solutions he has proposed, wouldn't even work on some of the versions of SQL Server that people are using today. Really, what good is a non working solution?
June 19, 2012 at 9:16 am
Lynn Pettis (6/19/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
Guys, I know that he makes you crazy with his strict adherence on the ISO stuff, but have you ever bothered to wonder why he gets more and more adamant about his beliefs when the entire world is trying to shout him down and say "You're wrong?"I'm not saying his behavior is acceptable. I'm certainly not saying he hasn't annoyed me at times. But when people go off ranting about him on public forums that can be Googled and seen by anyone, and by extension encouraging other people to do the same, you're encouraging a cyber-bullying mentality that is only going to make him stick to his guns all that much more.
Celko is fighting back against a culture that he perceives of not only allowing sloppy coding, but encourage it and bad administrative behavior. I don't agree with everything he says, but as others have said in the past, he does make good points if you can find them buried in everything else he is saying.
The forums are not supposed to be a place where people cut other people down, no matter how much one disagrees with them. We're adults. We're supposed to be better than this. Our behavior is starting to resemble heavy indirect mob bullying. Is this behavior really what we want future employers to know about us?
Brandie,
There are better ways for him to get his point across. He has a lot to give to the community and I would listen to him more if he would back off the always write ANSI standard and don't use anything dialect specific code band wagon. If he would approach each problem from the perspective of actually trying to understand the problem and provide a solution to the problem using his style of coding. Helping people by showing them a beter way to accomplish a task. Teach by example, not by degrading the OP. Insulting people, telling them they don't know anything, that doesn't help.
Oh, and some of the solutions he has proposed, wouldn't even work on some of the versions of SQL Server that people are using today. Really, what good is a non working solution?
I don't disagree with any of that, Lynn. What I'm worried about is that everyone is jumping on the "so-n-so is rude so let's talk trash behind his back" bandwagon. It's so easy to escalate from one person to other people, to get really vicious. And even easier after that to apply it to anyone that torques us off without considering that the person in question may not have intended any such thing.
Let me ask it this way. Does tearing down Celko really contribute anything to the forums or to ourselves as professionals?
The irony of me asking this after I called him out on another thread this morning does not escape me, BTW.
June 19, 2012 at 9:36 am
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
Lynn Pettis (6/19/2012)
Brandie Tarvin (6/19/2012)
Guys, I know that he makes you crazy with his strict adherence on the ISO stuff, but have you ever bothered to wonder why he gets more and more adamant about his beliefs when the entire world is trying to shout him down and say "You're wrong?"I'm not saying his behavior is acceptable. I'm certainly not saying he hasn't annoyed me at times. But when people go off ranting about him on public forums that can be Googled and seen by anyone, and by extension encouraging other people to do the same, you're encouraging a cyber-bullying mentality that is only going to make him stick to his guns all that much more.
Celko is fighting back against a culture that he perceives of not only allowing sloppy coding, but encourage it and bad administrative behavior. I don't agree with everything he says, but as others have said in the past, he does make good points if you can find them buried in everything else he is saying.
The forums are not supposed to be a place where people cut other people down, no matter how much one disagrees with them. We're adults. We're supposed to be better than this. Our behavior is starting to resemble heavy indirect mob bullying. Is this behavior really what we want future employers to know about us?
Brandie,
There are better ways for him to get his point across. He has a lot to give to the community and I would listen to him more if he would back off the always write ANSI standard and don't use anything dialect specific code band wagon. If he would approach each problem from the perspective of actually trying to understand the problem and provide a solution to the problem using his style of coding. Helping people by showing them a beter way to accomplish a task. Teach by example, not by degrading the OP. Insulting people, telling them they don't know anything, that doesn't help.
Oh, and some of the solutions he has proposed, wouldn't even work on some of the versions of SQL Server that people are using today. Really, what good is a non working solution?
I don't disagree with any of that, Lynn. What I'm worried about is that everyone is jumping on the "so-n-so is rude so let's talk trash behind his back" bandwagon. It's so easy to escalate from one person to other people, to get really vicious. And even easier after that to apply it to anyone that torques us off without considering that the person in question may not have intended any such thing.
Let me ask it this way. Does tearing down Celko really contribute anything to the forums or to ourselves as professionals?
The irony of me asking this after I called him out on another thread this morning does not escape me, BTW.
I don't have an answer, Brandie. I just find his persona rude and offensive, but that is what he wants. It doesn't seem to bother him that many people don't appreciate this approach and have called hm on it many times. I know I have gotten abrasive at times, and I have been called on it by others and I have tried hard to adjust my behaviour as a result. Mr. Celko refuses to do so, even though by changing he could potentially reach more people with his message, whether or not the follow his preaching or not of course is another matter.
Personally, I choose to write SQL code that makes use of the dialect I am using. Sorry if it isn't portable, but I want to write code that will perform best on the system I working with, not run on every system without change.
June 19, 2012 at 10:11 am
Michael Valentine Jones (6/18/2012)
Ray K (6/18/2012)
michael vessey (6/18/2012)
Lynn Pettis (6/11/2012)
How about Mr. Celko? I don't know why, but everytime I read one of his posts my blood pressure rises about 20 points.likewise
Ditto.
They finally had enough of him over on SQLTeam, and locked his accounts about 9 months ago.
Where did celko go?
http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=165360
I just tend to ignore him, like some crazy old drunk who sets in a bar and mumbles to himself about "ANSI SQL".
Ditto. However, I think his responses have become less irritating and he seems to have tried to lighten it up a bit.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
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