January 18, 2011 at 9:05 am
I certainly find some frustration with the level of writing at times. I think that the 8th grade target is a laziness/greed level. Get the message out and make sure everyone understands it without any work.
Personally I think we ought to be targeting a high school graduate level . Assume that anyone you are communicating with has gotten to that point. If not, then they need to learn a bit more and struggle.
We ought to be helping people to meet the bar we set, not lowering it.
January 18, 2011 at 9:09 am
REPPED! Amen to that, Steve...
January 18, 2011 at 9:40 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/18/2011)
....We ought to be helping people to meet the bar we set, not lowering it.
That, I think, is the pivotal point, and certainly the one on which I disagree. Personally, I think it's dangerous to presume we are the ones who should be setting the bar. On the contrary, if I decide I want to communicate with someone, it's a request for their attention, not a demand, so I don't see it's reasonable to ask them to jump through hoops of my making in order to listen to what I want to say to them. So far as possible, I feel I ought to the one doing the fitting in.
It appears that Alan Sugar (Amstrad, Viglen, Tottenham Hotspur etc.) never had a University education, so frankly I have no idea how erudite he is. However, if I were to discover he was less literate than me, I'd be pretty stupid if I insisted he try to raise his game to understand what I had to say. I'm not advocating that every email should be a page from a Dr Seuss book, but we should always remember that our audience's listening to us is a favour, not a right.
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
January 18, 2011 at 9:47 am
Perhaps. I think that you raise a good point, but it depends on the context. If we are talking about business-> customer, then I'd agree.
If we are talking manager->employee, I lean towards setting a bar. Not a high bar, not necessarily expecting university education, but a completion of mandatory schooling through roughly 16-18 years old.
January 18, 2011 at 10:08 am
There, Steve, I can easily accept common ground. What good is a manager who doesn't encourage his or her employees to improve themselves?
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
January 18, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/18/2011)
I certainly find some frustration with the level of writing at times. I think that the 8th grade target is a laziness/greed level. Get the message out and make sure everyone understands it without any work.Personally I think we ought to be targeting a high school graduate level . Assume that anyone you are communicating with has gotten to that point. If not, then they need to learn a bit more and struggle.
We ought to be helping people to meet the bar we set, not lowering it.
AMEN!
As I have said, business loves to complain that people aren't educated enough, yet they enable that by setting the bar so low, and by hiring based on pay rather than ability.
Dave
Dave
January 18, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/18/2011)
Perhaps. I think that you raise a good point, but it depends on the context. If we are talking about business-> customer, then I'd agree.If we are talking manager->employee, I lean towards setting a bar. Not a high bar, not necessarily expecting university education, but a completion of mandatory schooling through roughly 16-18 years old.
I work in a hospital. I talk to everyone the same way, but I modify the tone and topic to meet the audience. I talk to housekeepers by talking about them, what they do for me, how important they are to me being able to do my job. I talk to most workers that way. I talk to managers slightly different, directors more so, VPs even more. With a worker bee, I use a lot more detail to enable them to do their job. With a VP I focus on the point, skip the detail, and let them ask for it if they want it. When they ask a question the answer is usually "yes" or "no", whereas a worker would get something like "I can provide that for you, I just need to know..."
Now, there is a difference in changing content and changing the grade level. If I talked down to a housekeeper because they are "uneducated and illiterate" I believe my tenure would be shortened considerably. Like until the next time I left the parking lot! Why should I treat them like a child?
On the other hand when I write instructions for end users I do include step-by-step instructions. That does not mean I only use words like you find in Green Eggs and Ham! I just include enough information, maybe some screen shots, to enable them to figure out what they need to do. I don't coddle them though, because they won't learn if I do that.
In short, I set the bar above, not below, my audience, and I find that the people I support tend to become self sufficient much sooner than others.
Dave
January 18, 2011 at 6:59 pm
djackson 22568 (1/18/2011)
In short, I set the bar above, not below, my audience, and I find that the people I support tend to become self sufficient much sooner than others.
Well said, better than I worded it.
January 18, 2011 at 7:17 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/18/2011)
djackson 22568 (1/18/2011)
In short, I set the bar above, not below, my audience, and I find that the people I support tend to become self sufficient much sooner than others.
Well said, better than I worded it.
Aw shucks! Now I am going to get a swelled head!
Thanks for the compliment!
Dave
January 19, 2011 at 8:31 am
Another thought to consider when communicating; business is global. Though it is extremely common to communicate and conduct business in English, many of those in our audiences could very well speak, read, and understand English as secondary to their native language. I would argue, sadly, that the vocabulary of a good majority of ESL businessmen and women is often greater than that of native English speakers, though that doesnt mean all concept's are easily understood. Simplifying your communications, not necessaily "dumbing them down", still with proper structure and etiquette, is always a good idea. Getting the point across succintly and in an organized fashion is always the goal!
djackson - I second Steve's comment - very well put.
This has been quite an interesting thread! 🙂
January 28, 2011 at 2:45 pm
I've lost track of how many times I've seen documentation like this:
Step 1: Do blah...
Step 2: Do blah...blah...
...
Step N: Do blah...blah...blah...
Important! Before doing step 1, ...
That's a basic mistake that's all too common.
Here's another one. When presenting a list of items, number the items if order matters and bullet them if it does not.
January 28, 2011 at 2:51 pm
The poor quality of reading comprehension skills in our population is scary.
Part of the reason is that people are not taught critical thinking skills.
Part of it is that they never read, so they are out of practice.
I'm generally considered odd wherever I've worked because I read a lot. (I would probably be considered odd for other reasons too, but I digress :w00t: )
I probably read more in an average week than 90% of the people I've worked with read in a year. It would not surprise me to find that I read more in a week than 50% of the people I've worked with read in a decade.
January 29, 2011 at 2:13 pm
david_wendelken (1/28/2011)
The poor quality of reading comprehension skills in our population is scary.Part of the reason is that people are not taught critical thinking skills.
Part of it is that they never read, so they are out of practice.
I'm generally considered odd wherever I've worked because I read a lot. (I would probably be considered odd for other reasons too, but I digress :w00t: )
I probably read more in an average week than 90% of the people I've worked with read in a year. It would not surprise me to find that I read more in a week than 50% of the people I've worked with read in a decade.
Well my brother..welcome to the wonderful world of television. It's often been argued many times that it was one of the best and worst inventions in the 20th century..:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 31, 2011 at 7:20 am
TravisDBA (1/29/2011)
david_wendelken (1/28/2011)
The poor quality of reading comprehension skills in our population is scary.Part of the reason is that people are not taught critical thinking skills.
Part of it is that they never read, so they are out of practice.
I'm generally considered odd wherever I've worked because I read a lot. (I would probably be considered odd for other reasons too, but I digress :w00t: )
I probably read more in an average week than 90% of the people I've worked with read in a year. It would not surprise me to find that I read more in a week than 50% of the people I've worked with read in a decade.
Well my brother..welcome to the wonderful world of television. It's often been argued many times that it was one of the best and worst inventions in the 20th century..:-D
I, too, am a huge reader. In fact, I justified the purchase of my first computer (VIC-20 for $1000!) by determining that I would spend about $200 less per month on reading material. For the most part that turned out to be about right.
As to the impact of TV, my Dad bought one so that he could watch the space race. He dragged us out of bed at all hours, school night or not, to watch every televised launch. He also bought every book and magazine he could find on the space program and the related sciences and technologies and that became our new 'bedtime stories'. I suspect that he read them aloud to us because that was one of his only opportunities to sit down and read them 🙂 I can't say I learned much, but when I started reading on my own, I didn't spend too much time with Dick and Jane!
January 31, 2011 at 7:27 am
I love reading, and used to read 50+ books a year. Now it's higher with the Kindle apps distributed across phones, PCs, and iPads. I can read almost anywhere that I can steal 15 minutes.
Reading does a lot to help you communicate if you think about it as you read. Look at how an author conveys a point to you, and learn to try out new styles when you write.
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