August 1, 2012 at 8:07 am
SQLRNNR (7/30/2012)
Another thing these bosses tend to have in common (bad bosses) is that they probably should not be bosses in the IT field since they don't have a very good understanding of it.
I'd argue that while useful, having a good understanding of the IT field - especially an in depth understanding - really isn't all that important for someone to be a good boss. I guess it depends on what you're expecting them to do, but unless you need the boss to the senior geek in the department rather than be a manager it doesn't matter. What does matter is that they understand the strengths and weaknesses of themselves and their staff and act accordingly. For instance, give your techs problems, not ill conceived solutions you've dreamed up based on limited knowledge. If you have to overrule a solution provided for business reasons then explain what they are, don't just say you don't like that method when you don't understand the technology as well as the person recommending it.
I had one good boss who really wasn't very technical, but he recognised that, so always deferred to me when it came to tech matters. Conversely he recognised his communication skills with clients were far better than mine, so he tended to handle that side of thing. Most importantly, when things went wrong he knew the best thing he could do to help was to leave me alone, let me fix things, and keep our MD off my back.
Worst manager was one who'd constantly give you a problem to solve with no indication of what he was looking for, and then invariably would tell you the solution was wrong and not what he wanted. He still wouldn't say WHY it was wrong, or what he did actually want, you were just expected to read his mind.
David.Poole (7/31/2012)
Has anyone suggested to their manager a way in which the manager might improve?
Actually yes, and it was taken on board. It helps I've worked with my current boss on and off for about 12 year, but in review meetings it definitely goes in both directions. I think over the years we've both improved based on the feedback given to each other. That said he's the only boss I've felt in a position to be that open and honest with.
August 1, 2012 at 9:39 am
I agree, and I would add that another bad mark about a bad boss is one who is constantly denying that is not what he/she said, they always put it back on you by just saying you mis-understood what they said. However, this is the same kind of person that won't put anything down in writing either. It gives them "plausible deniability" and they do it purposely to avoid personal accountability for their actions. Hitler used this all the time. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 1, 2012 at 12:08 pm
I've had many bosses, good and bad, over the years and with only one exception they were people I would not object to spending an evening in their company.
The bad ones (minus the exception) were simply not managers but fine human beings.
Being a nice guy or nasty guy has no bearing on the quality of management.
I'm not convinced that a deep technical knowledge is a requirement for being a good boss. One of the best bosses I had wasn't technical at all. The reason I class him as a good boss was as follows:-
August 1, 2012 at 1:35 pm
Things that Bad managers say: How many of you have heard these?
1. "If you don’t want this job, I’ll find someone who does"
Bad managers, love to remind employees that it’s all about "You work for me.” They never fail to remind team members that someone else would take the job if you ever got sick of it or let the bad manager down in some way.
2. "I don’t pay you to think"
This is what a bad manager says when an employee offers an idea he/she doesn’t like. Maybe the idea threatens the inept manager’s power. Maybe it would require the bad manager to expend a few brain cells or some political capital within the organization. Either way, “I don’t pay you to think” is the mantra of people who have no business managing teams. It screams, “Do what I tell you to do, and nothing else.” Life is way too short to spend another minute working for someone who talks like this.
3. "I’ll take it under advisement"
There are certain words that we never use in real life — only in business and only in ways that let us know that the speaker is shining us on, big time. “I’ll take it under advisement” means “Go away and die, and don’t speak to me again unless I ask you to.” It means “I am not going to do whatever you just suggested that I do, and I want you to know that I value your opinions less than I can tell you.”
4. "Who gave you permission to do that?"
People who obsess about hierarchy and permission and grade levels and the like are people you’d be better off avoiding, especially in relationships that give them power over your life and career.
5. "Drop everything and DO THIS NOW!"
Any manager can have a last-minute emergency that pushes everything else out of the way. Good managers pull this move sparingly and only in real crises. Bad managers do it every day, and they never remember the dozen equally critical (at one point in time) priorities they’ve already told you to drop everything else for. A good comeback if your manager has this habit is to answer, “Yes, of course. That’ll push [yesterday’s drop-everything project] to next Thursday — is that fine?”
6. "Don’t bring me problems. Bring me solutions. "
I love this one. This little chestnut showed up during the era when people were beginning to think about business process and realizing that employees could often solve their day-to-day problems in the moment and on the ground, rather than having to go upstairs to get help. That’s O.K., but too many managers have reinterpreted “Bring me solutions, not problems” as “Don’t complain — shut up and deal with it.” The fact is, business processes and organizations are complicated today, and often the employee who spots a problem doesn’t have the information she or he needs to solve it. That’s where a manager can help, if he or she is oriented that way. Managers who say, “Bring me solutions” are often really saying, “Stop telling me what I don’t want to hear.” Working for a person like that will shorten your lifespan.
7. "In these times, you’re lucky to have a job at all."
The funniest thing about a manager who would open his mouth and say, “You’re lucky to have a job at all” is that these managers never seem to think they’re lucky to be working — just everyone else. “You’re lucky to have a job at all” in an era of more than 8 percent unemployment is the same as saying, “I can’t believe you manage to stay in that 90 percent of the population that is working.” It’s a huge insult, but worse, a statement of personal failure on the manager’s part. People who live in fear don’t tend to see the potential in themselves, or in others. If your manager’s native mode is critical, and if he/she tosses around compliments like manhole covers, know that there are plenty of other employers who’d be happy to have someone like you in the mix.
😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 1, 2012 at 3:47 pm
TravisDBA (8/1/2012)
Things that Bad managers say: How many of you have heard these?1. "If you don’t want this job, I’ll find someone who does"
7. "In these times, you’re lucky to have a job at all."
My supervisor told me "I can find anyone to do your job." when I asked for a promotion.
6. "Don’t bring me problems. Bring me solutions. "
I had a manager who said this, so no one brought him any problems as they knew, even if the problem was out of their expertise/control, it would be their job to fix.
David.Poole(8/1/2012)
He made a point of greeting all his staff by name at some point during the day. He knew who you were.
Very nice list.
I found the above item was so important to my staff when I was a manager. Everyone wants to seen at work even if it a simple acknowledgement of being at work and everyone wants to be thanked for doing a job. Once I learned this, I greeted each of my employees as they came in the door, then during the day I would thank them for what they were doing, and at the end of their shift "Thank you for working today/tonight."
August 1, 2012 at 10:28 pm
Great thread.
I like that list of what bad managers say. I've heard a few of those.
I had a manager who was against consulting the stakeholders in any decision he made. He told me that people just delay process. These were people directly affected by the decision!
He would also squint at you with a look on his face like he was sucking a lemon whenever you were trying to explain something to him. It made you feel like he didn't believe a word of what you were saying and that basically he thought you were either stupid or a liar.
I also vividly remember a teacher who used to say to us "when I want your opinion, I'll give it to you".
That was kind of funny though.
August 2, 2012 at 7:43 am
After having a manager (who thought cursors where the only way to code) scream at me for 45 minutes about how stupid and brainless I am, i called him an a****** and told him what I really thought of his "programming" skills. I probably should've just said I quit and walked out. But most of the bad bosses I've had are just bullies. Once you stand up to them, they'll leave you alone. This one took it as his personal mission to prove I was dumb, even though I had three MS experts on conference call backing me up. Oh well, you win some, you lose some.
Btw, I'm female, and a Marine. Don't back us into corners. 😉
August 2, 2012 at 9:40 am
Core6430 (8/2/2012)
But most of the bad bosses I've had are just bullies.
Put simply. Good Managers are interested in helping you grow and achieve goals. Bad managers are only interested in exercising their power over your life at work .Bad managers generally have low self-esteem in their personal lives and this is how they compensate for it at work.. i have found personally that a lot of bad managers are "little guys". Little Man Syndrome. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
August 2, 2012 at 4:12 pm
My supervisor told me "I can find anyone to do your job." when I asked for a promotion.
Anyone who has had to be part of the recruitment process knows that choosing someone with talent, motivation and the ability to fit in well with a team is not that easy.
Yes you could stuff "anyone" into a role, but would they fit and could they fill the role?
August 2, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Core6430 (8/2/2012)
Btw, I'm female, and a Marine. Don't back us into corners. 😉
We shouldn't back anyone into a corner, but anyone who picks on someone because they are a girl needs to have their attitude adjusted. I am male, but I absolutely, positively hate men who treat women poorly and abuse them. I always enjoy hearing about them getting their comeuppance when they pick on the wrong one!
Dave
August 2, 2012 at 5:37 pm
I stayed away from this thread for a bit because it hits a few demons in my career. I've also had a few blessings.
One of my managers once told me to stop showing up at the shop I worked at 15 minutes early to open it because he didn't want to pay the overtime. So I did. Then another manager (between me and the one giving the orders) started griefing me for not being there at exactly 8:00 (it was 8:01, I'd hit an extra light that morning). I calmly explained to her that her husband told me to stop showing up early, he didn't want to pay the extra. That turned into a political nightmare as husband and wife tried to control the business and I played stretch armstrong.
On the other hand you've got the manager who truly mentored me in SQL Server when I was hired as a MS Access technician and handed me my career. He gave me room to grow, make all the mistakes I had to, all the knowledge he could offer, and I sucked him dry and he did it all with a smile.
Currently I work for a lady who takes care of us. Is she the most organized or detail oriented or specification oriented person I've ever worked for? No. Like any other highly pressured manager she'll make decisions in the interest of 'getting it done'. However, I've *never* had sh!t roll downhill unless it was my own, she personally purposely insulates us from the end-user pressure of 'oh, it's just a little change' * 1000, and basically does everything she can to make sure that we can do our jobs by doing hers.
Damn, that's a good boss. Something's gotta give if they're not going to work 120 hours/week. Sometimes it's "Dammit, just do it" decisions. Sometimes it's a bit of fireball lands on your desk because they literally don't have time to deal with it. Sometimes it's a fight in a budget meeting that the only part of it you'll hear, even if they went to the walls for xyz and lost, is the company line of "Here's what we decided to do, and we're going to make sure it works."
There are the power hungry and the stupid. There's the Peter Principal Arabesque Candidate and the Nepotism Recruit. They all exist, and there's little we can do about it but take care of our job, stand our ground when they are making mistakes, and walk away if it becomes too much. In general, I'd say most of them are just doing the best they can, imitating people who came before them when they moved on and this person took over. They should be looking to improve themselves, sure, but in what time? Most of your semi-trained, internally promoted managers (who are the people the bosses trust MOST with the job) are doing 60 hour weeks just to keep up with the paperwork because they can't get out of meetings to DO it. When do they go train themselves? They don't. The go home, collapse on the couch until dinner, eat it with families/friends/SOs, then go out back and play ball with the dog or the kids or vid games with friends until it's late. Then they take care of some paperwork for the morning, go to bed, and repeat.
I won't argue that businesses should take a better look at their expectations from internally promoted managers, they definately should. But the majority of employers and bosses (yes, I've got a ton of horror stories too, including one who I got into, literally, a daily 3 hour screaming match) are just undertrained and swinging the bat the best they can and praying they can just get ahead of it for one damned moment and catch their breath, and most high-level (read, C-level and directors/VPs) think that they're 'mentoring' when they're too busy themselves (or golfing) to actually give a flip except in yet another meeting that's wasting more of their protege's time. Then they pat themselves on the back when things go well.
It's more complicated than it looks from underneath. Much more complicated. And I've done my 'stint' at that level and purposely backed myself back off of it (I Petered out there and realized it) for reasons I can directly define and now can handle but couldn't at the time. It doesn't change the fact that while frustrating, most of 'em are just poor schleps doing the same thing you are... trying to handle all the crap slung at the walls next to 'em.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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