October 24, 2008 at 7:00 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Barriers to Entry, Database Weekly (Oct 27 2008)
October 25, 2008 at 2:24 am
In certain cases, creating barriers to entry can help preserve a community and keep it active without being overactive. There can be a value to it.
However, I do not think SQLServerCentral.com needs those in particular. Its relatively specialized nature by itself will keep the crowds small and limited to the fairly intelligent people. I have yet to see a great deal of flaming or impoliteness happening on these forums.
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Timothy A Wiseman
SQL Blog: http://timothyawiseman.wordpress.com/
October 25, 2008 at 3:00 am
Digg is a general site. However sites like DZone http://www.dzone.com (Digg-like site for developers only) is good. It does not contain SPAM on the homepage, and the articles cater for a targeted user segment.
Social sites IMHO are a good complement to forums, articles. I think it will be a good idea to implement a Digg-like site specialized in SQL Server.
Visit:
http://www.kaizenlog.com
http://www.autocar-live.com
http://www.yachting-live.com
October 25, 2008 at 3:34 am
I'd say keep the playing field level. A lot of posts doesn't translate into actual knowledge or special priveleges. I muck up at least as many times as I get stuff right. If you kept people off based on the mistakes, they wouldn't get the opportunity to learn and grow too.
That said, I do wish a few more people were able to find the Books Online and type a word into the index or the search screen, once, before they post their questions here.
I know the kind of snobbery and attack posts you're talking about because I've seen them at other sites. I have yet to see serious infractions here at SSC. I'm not sure why, but there it is.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
October 25, 2008 at 5:24 am
This is certainly an interesting idea, but is there a danger that the scoring system might unfairly mark down contributions that are hampered more by language difficulties than quality of content?
No, if something is hampered by language difficulties it has a lack of quality. The best explanation in the world is useless if I can't understand it.
October 25, 2008 at 6:00 am
Grant Fritchey (10/25/2008)
I know the kind of snobbery and attack posts you're talking about because I've seen them at other sites. I have yet to see serious infractions here at SSC. I'm not sure why, but there it is.
I've seen a couple over the years. I've been the target of one or two. They are though memorable because they're the minority.
It would make life a lot easier if people would google/read BoL before posting. There are some questions that I can copy-paste replies to because they come up so often.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 25, 2008 at 6:59 am
I am a lurker on this site as I know little about SQL databases but I am the best our small office has for support. Keeping a forum on track is very important to people like me as I learn a lot just by reading. I think restricting posting rights is a good idea; using a trusted method seems most practical. A fee is probably meaningless; if it is too low, it deters no one and if too high, no one will join. I think banning people is a reasonable action but gmail/hotmail address can be a problem as people simply create another
Tony Oliver
October 25, 2008 at 8:56 am
We like to think we have a good signal/noise ratio here and most people are professional, but I definitely need to clean things up on a regular basis.
I try to help people professionally, and that sometimes means that you have to get them to do some work on their own. We definitely don't want to do the work for you. Doesn't help anyone when that happens. It's a fine line and a balance that the moderators and people that support the board have to find.
Stackoverflow is interesting and I like some things they do. I don't think adding barriers to entry is the solution for everyone, but it works in places. I definitely use the Microsoft MVP forums at times because it's a very closed group and it allows a different type of discussion that I have here. It's a much smaller group and there's some value in that. Also the NDAs allow for a very focused, private discussion of things that I can't have elsewhere.
October 25, 2008 at 9:12 am
I, too, am a lurker - I find that most answers are freely available either by using a search engine (google), MSDN, a good book, or sufficient head-butting of the keyboard. I've seen ratings sytems on other sites, but based on number of posts is meaningless (they could all be spam), and based on feedback is difficult to enforce as if you're trying a number of different solutions, you don't take too much notice of where you found them. I think the key is to have clearly defined technical forums and threads, to have them suitably moderated and subtly encourage more buy-in from the lurkers.
October 25, 2008 at 9:28 am
Technically, I grew up here (at SSC).
I worked with SQL Server while a developer from the mid-90s until early this decade. My job responsibilities then changed from application to database developer. When that happened, I started lurking here and similar forums regularly. Usually my goal was to fix something that threatened my current project. Occasionally it was to preserve my job.
I learned a bunch online. While I understand the frustration of forum contributors, I still remember the RTFM answers I saw to questions for which I also sought answers.
In short, it's a balance (like everything else).
When I answer an email or forum post, I try to help. I could care less about the stars under or by my name, where I appear on Top-Answerers list, or veen whether the question has already been (or ever will be) marked as Answered.
Someone has an issue. They need help. I'm going to try to help.
:{> Andy
Andy Leonard, Chief Data Engineer, Enterprise Data & Analytics
October 25, 2008 at 11:19 am
Andy Leonard (10/25/2008)
Technically, I grew up here (at SSC).
Likewise. I found this site when I was just getting started with SQL. Initially it was the question of the day that attracted me and I spent only a little time on the forums. When I decided a year or so later that I wanted to get better at SQL, it was these forums I turned to.
Steve Jones (10/25/2008)
I definitely use the Microsoft MVP forums at times because it's a very closed group and it allows a different type of discussion that I have here. It's a much smaller group and there's some value in that.
And where else would you get a serious and deep discussion of aspects of query plan costing on a friday evening?
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 25, 2008 at 1:40 pm
(This is certainly an interesting idea, but is there a danger that the scoring system might unfairly mark down contributions that are hampered more by language difficulties than quality of content?)
Scoring systems are not just unfair but also restrict content to a few users based on aggression not quality of solutions offered. These are the software development trenches brains solve problems not aggression, simple arithmetic is converted to convoluted algebra to create scoring systems. Somebody will one day answer why people with pedestrian brains are blocking people with better brains based on some useless scoring system.
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
October 26, 2008 at 9:13 am
I lurked for quite a while before I started getting involved in the discussions on this site. And I find that often the discussion I enter are not technical in nature, but rather address the "softer side of programming" (sorry, Sears!) - the human interaction.
I tend to try Google and BOL (not necessarily in that order) before asking questions, which I suppose is why I don't ask very many on this forum! Plus I find that often when I have an issue on my "event horizon", and answer or direction appears in the newsletter - so apparently I have good timing, or good karma, or something. However, there are definitely times that BOL is useless - sometimes because the information isn't there, or because I don't know what keyword will access it.
I don't think limiting site participation for a technical site would buy you as much as you lose. Just because a person is knowledgable in one area doesn't make them an expert in some other area. We're all a product of our experience and training, which changes over time. I've seen a few items over the years on this board where the solution to a problem was derived not by some "expert" giving the answer, but by several people working at it from different perspectives over the course of several days to figure out what works. How do you "grade" something like that? And limiting participation would effectively put an end to those sorts of discussions, I fear.
We're all (reasonably) mature people, capable of deciding when and how to respond to posts. I vote we continue to self-regulate (by which I mean we regulate ourselves, rather than trying to regulate others). I'm really not a fan of barriers.
Steph Brown
October 26, 2008 at 5:23 pm
I saw a signature on a forum (apologies to the person involved, I cannot remember where or when) but it could serve as a particularly cute candidate shibboleth for this site:
Select * from users where clue > 0
where the suitable response is
0 rows returned.
🙂
October 27, 2008 at 2:35 am
I too dislike the arrogance of those who post a simple question which could be solved by a quick google or BOL and demand an answer but it would be interesting to survey the demographics and cultural upbringing of these posters - is there a common thread?
But above all please don't introduce a fee. I'd be one who wouldn't pay, not for wanting to but because of the difficulty of getting a payment out of the red tape of the civil service to a foreign country and currency. No, it could not be done by credit card, that's personal not business.
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