January 8, 2010 at 7:53 am
Here I thought I'd be original and suggest an advertiser/vendor forum or page. But others have beaten me to it.
My only concern with allowing vendors to post in discussion boards or topics is that vendors could potentially get into a debate about their product being better company Y's and it degrades into a flame war and the original question or issue of the poster is lost.
I envision some sort of process by which a vendor can post general information and maybe even demos of their product in the vendors area and when an issue is posted in which they feel their product is a good fit, they can reply to the topic but the content is auto generated to be just a link to their area in the vendors section. Theoretically, sounds nice. From a technical perspective and how to carry it out, no clue. I'm just the idea man.
The distance between genius and insanity is measured only by success.
January 8, 2010 at 7:56 am
I know my biggest complaint about advertising is how it forces its way in front of me, generally at the worst possible time. I'd say more than half the time I am online, I am looking for solutions to specific problems, and frankly that is the absolute worst time to cover up the answer to why my backups are failing with an ad. At that point, the company and its product become an obstacle, rather than a solution. I think a special circle in hell is reserved for advertisers who cover the answers to questions with pop-ups.
How about advertising that is there when I WANT it? Recently, I was in the market for a T-SQL compare tool. I spent a lot of time just trying to figure out how many different companies offered that product so I could see what my options were. Google used to be great for that, but I've found its results getting less and less relevant as paid advertising begins to dominate its search results (but that's a rant for another day).
It would have been great to, for example, go to SQL Server Central's hypothetical sponsors page and browse the offerings from many companies, all in one place. That could have saved me a few hours of research time, and assuming at least one company had a good offering at a fair price, would have resulted in a sale for the company and an advertising kickback for SSC.
What does the community think about that?
January 8, 2010 at 8:09 am
It seems like most people want a segregated section. That's not a bad idea, and I'll kick it around with the publishing team here.
I do like to run articles at times, but I worry about being overwhelmed by vendors with marketing papers that I can't properly vet because of time. However if I drop them into a special section and mark them as such in the newsletter/front page, maybe that works.
We do allow vendors to mention their products in terms of a possible solution if it's relevant. However there are a few vendors, like RAQ Report, that just put their product in every post they answer, regardless of relevance.
January 8, 2010 at 8:14 am
Allow their marketing people to post articles about their products. Discussion can follow, just as with any other article. Just make sure they have a tag or are otherwise clearly marked as "marketing".
That way, if questions came up from the article, their salespeople could respond to the questions. Lots of advantages for all involved.
Interested people could read the articles, uninterested ones could ignore them.
Just don't overdo it. Wouldn't want dozens per day. Maybe a couple per week or something like that.
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January 8, 2010 at 8:26 am
Jesse Barlau (1/8/2010)
You have Featured Articles, Editorial, Featured Script. That's where I start, that's how I decide whether to read further. Add "Interesting Products/Vendors" as a link to the information on another page.
I'm thinking along the same lines as Jesse. Have a "Featured Vendor" section in the basic daily email that goes out...put it at the bottom so it is not intrusive...and if possible, include a reference to that section if one of the postings looking for assistance could possibly be resolved using the one of the vendors listed, or if one of the featured articles uses their product.
If placed at the bottom, most of us may use it only infrequently. Some vendors might feel the effort would not be worth it to make a posting, but it may be an acceptable way to get vendor involvement in the site.
January 8, 2010 at 8:26 am
I think the idea of a Tools section is a great on, provided it's not too much of a burden on SSC to create and maintain, but I'd love to see technical articles from vendors. In the same vein as the articles now on SSC they could write about a specific problem and outline how their product helped to solve that problem, context is great, and then SSC users who have worked with the product could post if they wanted to.
Also in the tools section it would be great if users could post reviews, then give a "star" rating to aggregate those reviews for folks who are searching for a specific type of tool.
January 8, 2010 at 8:56 am
I would suggest an option in the users profile to allow very limited vendor advertising whilst using the forums (for those who wish it). For myself no way would I ever check it !
As for vendors whitepapers (veiled advertisements) and product information within a separate section of SSC, well that's kind of a 'no-brainer' to me. While yes it would be convenient to view while on SSC, but hey, lets get real - Google is your friend, just open another browser window !
Please, please try to keep this site as free as possible from unwanted 'distractions'.
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
January 8, 2010 at 9:49 am
I wouldn't mind articles detailing how a particular product can solve a problem, as long as it's clearly noted that the article is written by someone who works for the company.
January 8, 2010 at 10:18 am
Thank you for asking, it is a good poll to take.
I would favor having a sperate section for vendors where ads, white papers, and other items could be found listed under certain topics or areas of business. But I would not favor letting the vendors into the discussions where we would face marketing all day long.
I have been on a couple of other discussion sites when vendors have been let in and the vendors took over the discussion, posting ads that were not relevant and repeated information. The sites became useless and the people with the answers simply left and came to other places like here.
You have a great thing going in the editorials and the discussions groups, please do not destroy it by opening the door to commercialization.
IMHO as always.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
January 8, 2010 at 12:01 pm
I prefer reading reviews about products from trusted authorities; I think you're already doing a good job talking about great tools that are available. I think vendors overestimate how valuable their products are (which is perfectly understandable).
It's also fairly expensive to even evaluate a new tool, let alone integrate it cleanly in an existing organization. Not only do I need to evaluate the tool, make a purchasing decision, but then I need to deploy it within my organization, provide training to other personnel in using the tool, and (if I'm extremely lucky) document all this for reference. That's a lot of (needed) overhead!
January 8, 2010 at 12:26 pm
rudy komacsar - Doctor "X" (1/8/2010)
I would suggest an option in the users profile to allow very limited vendor advertising whilst using the forums (for those who wish it). For myself no way would I ever check it !As for vendors whitepapers (veiled advertisements) and product information within a separate section of SSC, well that's kind of a 'no-brainer' to me. While yes it would be convenient to view while on SSC, but hey, lets get real - Google is your friend, just open another browser window !
Please, please try to keep this site as free as possible from unwanted 'distractions'.
I think this site needs to stop Raqsoft at the SSRS and BI forums because the person just tell user to try Raqsoft without adding that now there is no free edition because even the Express now cost $800.00 and the previous for pay edition cost more than SQL Server Standard edition for small companies. I think that is very wrong because that company users are banned on MSDN and the their posts deleted. I think letting someone selling a tool post useless and random answer to most questions with their product in their signature is just not right to people here to provide valid help.
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic840960-1063-1.aspx
Kind regards,
Gift Peddie
January 8, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Thanks for asking the question. One of the things I love about this site is the minimal advertising. But I would use a side-by-side product comparison (like BillShrink offers for smart phones) comparing features and I would be very interested in SSC member ratings of products. Member ratings and reviews often influence me on other sites. Maybe vendors would be interested in paying to see feedback helping them to improve their products or having thier product featured in comparisons.
I would like to see more honest evaluations and comparisons of SQL related products, including whether products are better for larger installations or for smaller environments like mine.
While we discard direct advertising, our business has discovered several tools through ratings and feedback features on web sites and purchased 3 tools last year which solved specific production problems and quickly paid for themselves.
January 8, 2010 at 1:24 pm
I think that a vendor section as well as a vendor forum would be perhaps the simplest and most effective way to go.
A section can provide a good entry point into the vendor world, and forums take it to the next level where you could have a breakdown of the kinds of tools that vendors offer and there can be discussion at that level of what tools people use and for what purpose. It will allow for that segregation from non-commercial items. It might also help encourage more formal engagement from these companies at this lower level, maybe giving them an approved "vendor" title to indicate that's who they are.
January 8, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Vendor section isn't a bad idea, but for my part, I'd rarely hit it unless I wanted to know what real users thought about a product.
I don't mind vendors showcasing their product in a "how does this really help" scenario, but preferably the way that Quest tends to do it. Here's useful information regardless of whether or not you use our products, with maybe some blurbs about how those products help them. I use SQL Prompt. It's a pretty good product and generally useful. Can you use SSMS without it? Of course. I type enough ad-hoc T-SQL that the product is well worth it for me and much better than the built-in auto-complete from MS.
Others have pointed out people who just plug their product seemingly at random. Any post gets a response telling you to check out their product. Their answers are rarely helpful outside of trying to sell their product (which may be good, but it's done so poorly that the only thing it does is drive sales away). I also don't want to have to give out my contact information to Vendors when I'm evaluating software. If I need help, I'll contact them. If I don't like the product or it's priced to high, I probably won't ever contact them again.
Keep up the advertising in the newsletters. It's not too intrusive. Invite vendors to write useful articles that could be put in the newsletter or on the front page. Kick out the useless posters or spammers. Consider a separate area of the site to discuss products and let vendors highlight their products. All of those together could be a good start, get vendors more exposure, and not overly annoy your community. 🙂
January 9, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Following an interesting thread can be worthwhile and yet take some time to do when it is many pages. I would feel kind of let-down to follow a notification back to it, only to find out a Vendor thought it to be a good time to promote their product, or even for selling a book.
But I agree with some of the previous posts that SSC would be the first place I would come when looking for a specific product functionality, if there were an area organized and edited for just that purpose.
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