November 22, 2011 at 9:27 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Are You Easy To Work With?
November 22, 2011 at 9:47 pm
Depends on the topic.. If you want to do something monumentally boneheaded in SQL then I'm going with No, VERY difficult..
CEWII
November 22, 2011 at 10:09 pm
Thank you for bringing this topic to light, if briefly.
You're absolutely right, and it's why I prefer to bring on employees who were contractors in one point in their life. If you can't grok, truly grok, that the business must be able to their jobs better... you're doing it wrong.
Sometimes you need to toss things in front of an end user as quickly as possible. Sometimes you see the long term effects and create a function to 'pass the salt'. You have to understand the long term business user. If you can't, you're going to drive me crazy when I follow you in.
Easy to work with doesn't mean bending over and taking it, however, which I don't believe you illustrated well in your very brief discussion. Easy to work with can mean explaining to the business the hurdles involved in reaching their goal, and helping them understand what the technical challenges will be in vernacular they will grasp. As a brief example, I've gotten half of the projects at my current position shot down after explaining why the difficulty of what they're asking for would take so much time with the tools currently in use.
To your specific point, I've learned to never say 'No' unless it was truly out of reach. I've learned to try to speak business' language in every one of my contracts, and explain the risks and cost. The decision in most cases must be left up to them if a $10/hour assistant is more profitable than what I, or another, can offer.
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November 23, 2011 at 1:37 am
I guess I would have to answer that I'm probably not easy to get on with based on your descriptions and explanations.
However what you said is totally one sided. You seem to be saying that the business people can get away without explaining to you or helping you understand what they want (even when you ask) and that it should be acceptable that they have no responsibility to aid the project you just have to lump it and accept their complaints.
November 23, 2011 at 1:55 am
Depends on Topic and Interests of indivisual
November 23, 2011 at 2:12 am
Evil Kraig F (11/22/2011)
... As a brief example, I've gotten half of the projects at my current position shot down after explaining why the difficulty of what they're asking for would take so much time with the tools currently in use.To your specific point, I've learned to never say 'No' unless it was truly out of reach. I've learned to try to speak business' language in every one of my contracts, and explain the risks and cost. The decision in most cases must be left up to them if a $10/hour assistant is more profitable than what I, or another, can offer.
Agreed. Sometimes, an idea sounds great in theory but is difficult to implement with current technology. Sometimes it is easier to hire somebody to perform a function as they will be a lot more flexible than a technological solution.
November 23, 2011 at 4:06 am
In general, I agree with what you're saying, Andy. The ability to mesh with others in your team is an important part of working as part of a team, and is therefore hugely valuable.
However, let's not forget that there are times when the best person to achieve what the business needs is someone who is definitely not easy to work with. Sometimes it takes someone who plays Devil's Advocate, who challenges, who dictates, who is single-minded, whose convictions are unshakeable. Quite a few of the most effective leaders in history have been exasperating to those working most closely with them.
I mention this not as a mandate to ignore how you affect the rest of your team, but simply to remember that a cohesive and closely-knit team doesn't guarantee it'll be a productive team.
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
November 23, 2011 at 6:23 am
I am definitely easy to work with, and anyone who disagrees will be shot! 😀
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November 23, 2011 at 7:13 am
Whenever I hear "perfect is the enemy of good" is usually means, "I like my idea and I don't understand your idea, so do it my way". I have been told "stored procedures are too hard to work with, I like to see the SQL right there in my code". I have been easy to work with and accept it when someone says "we'll deal with that obvious problem later", then later comes and they did nothing and I'm the one who has to deal with the consequences. If I point that out, I'm told I complain too much.
Computers expect logic, if you don't start with that, you're going to have a difficult time working with them. Obviously it's good to be nice and consider the business issues, but when they took off their "engineer" hats and put on their "manager" hats at NASA, we lost a space shuttle. I'm being dramatic, but it is the same, just a difference of scale, when businesses are short sighted and tell you to cut your estimate in half and just get it done with no understanding of the long term cost of that decision.
November 23, 2011 at 7:16 am
When we are hiring, I look for someone with good hygiene, who will show up & actually get the job done, and that I want around 40 hrs/wk.
November 23, 2011 at 7:16 am
WolforthJ (11/23/2011)
Whenever I hear "perfect is the enemy of good" is usually means, "I like my idea and I don't understand your idea, so do it my way". I have been told "stored procedures are too hard to work with, I like to see the SQL right there in my code". I have been easy to work with and accept it when someone says "we'll deal with that obvious problem later", then later comes and they did nothing and I'm the one who has to deal with the consequences. If I point that out, I'm told I complain too much.Computers expect logic, if you don't start with that, you're going to have a difficult time working with them. Obviously it's good to be nice and consider the business issues, but when they took off their "engineer" hats and put on their "manager" hats at NASA, we lost a space shuttle. I'm being dramatic, but it is the same, just a difference of scale, when businesses are short sighted and tell you to cut your estimate in half and just get it done with no understanding of the long term cost of that decision.
I totally get where you are coming from.
November 23, 2011 at 7:36 am
laura davis (11/23/2011)
When we are hiring, I look for someone with good hygiene, who will show up & actually get the job done, and that I want around 40 hrs/wk.
Well, now that's just being picky... :Whistling:
Semper in excretia, suus solum profundum variat
November 23, 2011 at 8:06 am
Any relationship requires give and take. I like to work with people who communicate and seek to jump the hurdles to success on the project. I prefer managers who request the project, including any specific known requiements and then let us get the job done. We will provide status and results. If a team member is not working up to capacity, peer pressure will motivate them.
November 23, 2011 at 8:40 am
I agree with the quote "perfect is the enemy of good", and I'll be the first to compromise.
Here is the problem: Ask 100 people to define their idea of a "Perfect" something (user interface, president, pizza, anything) and you'll get 100 different answers. Perfect is a subjective concept that is artificially made objective only within the context of a set of documented requirements, which ideally the group has collectively and intelligently settled on.
However, we typically don't start out with anything close to Perfect information, and external circumstances or new information make the stated goals of the requirements no longer optimal, functional, or useful. At that point the team would ideally change the requirements and thus change the definition of Perfect. If not, then Perfect is the enemy of good.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
November 23, 2011 at 8:48 am
Hmmm.................
I think I'm generally easy to work with barring a few notable exceptions.
When I'm instructed to massage data in order to influence others or change business plans, that violates my sense of ethics. I'm pretty intractable about ethics.
When a person screws up, and we all do at one time or another, but refuses to take responsibility or even lies about it, I'm pretty hard to work with. I don't respond well to that kind of thing.
When other DBA's, IT personnel, or contractors make unilateral changes to database structure without consulting even one person, I get annoyed. I'm down right hard to work with if the changes break my reports and tools. Just happened yesterday, if you're wondering. A DBA added a column in the middle of the existing columns in a critical table. No kidding.
Other than that I'm exacting, but generally easy to work with.
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