April 19, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Paul White NZ (4/19/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/19/2010)
I am putting the finishing touches on draft 1 of a new article. Anybody out there willing to give it a review?What's it about?
Simple subject - sp_who2. Hoping it will be worth the read and effort.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 19, 2010 at 6:19 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (4/19/2010)
I am putting the finishing touches on draft 1 of a new article. Anybody out there willing to give it a review?
Fire it my way. PM me if you need my email.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
April 19, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Kit G (4/19/2010)
anthony_merriwether (4/19/2010)
This is for all of you who are perturbed with the postings that you are seeing. I have read your replies and feel that you are all out of line and unless you have developed psychic powers, have no right to question the motives or reasons of those who post. He who is without sin, cast the first stone. If you do not like the post, do not insult the inquirer an expose your arrogance, for lack of a better word... simply do not respond to the post inquirer. Above all, remember this is not your web site, so show respect for everyone. if you want to be respected. Seems to me that you should al have better things to do...like get back to work!I may be mistaken, and my profound apologies if I am, but this post seems more like the post of a troll than anything else. The main contributors to this site do show respect. Everyone is given a chance. If a poster isn't professional on these forums, (whether new or a veteran of these forums) said poster gets jumped on for the lack of a professional manner.
The ones who don't get respect are those who have earned the disrespect. The disrespect is earned by repeatedly asking for answers without showing improvement or willingness to improve, just to have someone else do their work for them.
You say that unless the we have developed psychic powers that we have no right to question the posters. That's just the problem. We DON'T have psychic powers so that we can determine, at a distance with no data, just what the problem is and provide the correct answer. So, we have to rely on the old-fashioned way of posting questions to the Original Poster about the problem. And then hope that the psychic powers will activate so the reply can be understood.
Actually, I'm going to take Anthony's side on this (partly, anyway). While I do not agree with Anthony's original post, I don't think that there was anything particularly offensive or unreasonable about it and certainly nothing Trollish. A disagreement or a difference of perception honestly and reasonably stated, even if it is critical, shouldn't get someone labelled as a Troll, that's really not fair.
For one thing, being a Troll is very hard work, unreasonably hard work. And that's the best way to identify them: they're post's are unreasonable, they absolutely respond to *every* comment to them, but they don't actually respond to the content of critical comments, and they are *relentless*, seemingly unstoppable. Any Troll worthy of the name will have 20-30 mindless attacks posted before you can blink twice.
Anthony's post's aren't anything like this: he has just pointed out a perception, that in fact is *very* easy for readers and other lurkers to get about our attitude and behavior. I do not agree with it, and I do think that it's a misperception, but certainly an honest one. Lynn's response is, I think a proper one, and I agree with it completely.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
April 19, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Lynn Pettis (4/19/2010)
anthony_merriwether (4/19/2010)
This is for all of you who are perturbed with the postings that you are seeing. I have read your replies and feel that you are all out of line and unless you have developed psychic powers, have no right to question the motives or reasons of those who post. He who is without sin, cast the first stone. If you do not like the post, do not insult the inquirer an expose your arrogance, for lack of a better word... simply do not respond to the post inquirer. Above all, remember this is not your web site, so show respect for everyone. if you want to be respected.This has nothing to do with sin and everything to do with what some people do, or more precisely don't do, when posting questions on SSC or any of the other forums. If we choose to gripe about those posts on this particular thread, that is our choice. It allows us to vent our frustrations with others of a similar mind. In addition, if you have bothered to read this entire thread, you will also realize that it is more than a gripe session, it is actually a water cooler. We discuss much more than just bad posts, we ask each other to look at other threads where help is needed, we discuss issues of interest to each other beyond SQL Server.
Before you condemn us, perhaps you should walk in our shoes.
Although I agree generally with what LP said here (many questions display an amazing unwillingless to make any effort aty all) I must say that I have seen cases where people have clearly ignored the fact that it may be difficult for someone to post clearly in English, and (evenworse) cases where very bad advice has been given. Maybe cases like that are what Anthony was worrying about?
Tom
April 19, 2010 at 6:56 pm
lmu92 (4/19/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (4/19/2010)
I added some levels to the count. Didn't announce it since they really only applied to me for now. Jeff/Lynn/Gal soon."Soon" has been recently?
Heh... all I really wanted was a mug. 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 19, 2010 at 7:09 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (4/19/2010)
Simple subject - sp_who2. Hoping it will be worth the read and effort.
By the by, are you aware of sp_WhoIsActive?
I use it a lot.
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi
April 19, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Alvin Ramard (4/19/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/19/2010)
Jack Corbett (4/19/2010)
Don't usually say this, but going to be in meetings for a few days, so I'll be even less active than I have been recently. Also have something going on every night this week until I head to Atlanta on Friday for SQLSaturday 41. Anyone else going to be there?Not this year.
SQLSat in Orlando would be fun!!
I'm waiting for SQLSaturday in Orlando. I'm thinking that a few days of vacation in Orlando just before SQLSaturday might be a good thing.
Y'all will both be welcome at SQLSaturday Orlando. We had our first planning meeting, well phone call, 2 weeks ago. Looking like it'll probably be Oct. 9th, but that's not firm. Andy Warren is handling speakers and schedule this year, I've got sponsors and messaging. If you have any suggestions for sponsors let me know.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
April 19, 2010 at 7:12 pm
lmu92 (4/19/2010)
Hi,anybody of you folks influenced by the volcano eruption on Iceland?
I haven't been hit by it yet, but I'm supposed to be flyin from ACE to MAN next Tuesday and it's just guesswork whether I will be screwed by the ash or not.
Tom
April 19, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Lynn Pettis (4/19/2010)
Grant Fritchey (4/19/2010)
I owned two different Pacers. One worked great unless it rained. Then, if you splashed through a puddle more than 1/2 deep, it would immediately stall. Great fun, especially on dates. The other one picked and chose when it would start and how. Sometimes it started off the ignition, just a like a real car. Other times you had to push start it. Other times it wouldn't start. One day... I walked away and left it parked somewhere near here.So, to whoever found it, I hope you had fun with it.
You know, it may be the DBCC TimeWarp, but it looks like the car may still be there! 😉
It wouldn't surprise me if it was. Piece of dung is probably glued to the pavement. After a nuclear war there would be nothing but cockroaches and that immobilized Pacer.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
April 19, 2010 at 7:14 pm
Paul White NZ (4/19/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (4/19/2010)
Simple subject - sp_who2. Hoping it will be worth the read and effort.By the by, are you aware of sp_WhoIsActive?
I use it a lot.
I came across it earlier today while trying to find some supporting information. I haven't looked at the code yet.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 19, 2010 at 7:16 pm
Grant Fritchey (4/19/2010)
Lynn Pettis (4/19/2010)
Grant Fritchey (4/19/2010)
I owned two different Pacers. One worked great unless it rained. Then, if you splashed through a puddle more than 1/2 deep, it would immediately stall. Great fun, especially on dates. The other one picked and chose when it would start and how. Sometimes it started off the ignition, just a like a real car. Other times you had to push start it. Other times it wouldn't start. One day... I walked away and left it parked somewhere near here.So, to whoever found it, I hope you had fun with it.
You know, it may be the DBCC TimeWarp, but it looks like the car may still be there! 😉
It wouldn't surprise me if it was. Piece of dung is probably glued to the pavement. After a nuclear war there would be nothing but cockroaches and that immobilized Pacer.
Nah - the cockroaches would be blown to smitherines too.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 19, 2010 at 7:18 pm
RBarryYoung (4/19/2010)
Kit G (4/19/2010)
anthony_merriwether (4/19/2010)
This is for all of you who are perturbed with the postings that you are seeing. I have read your replies and feel that you are all out of line and unless you have developed psychic powers, have no right to question the motives or reasons of those who post. He who is without sin, cast the first stone. If you do not like the post, do not insult the inquirer an expose your arrogance, for lack of a better word... simply do not respond to the post inquirer. Above all, remember this is not your web site, so show respect for everyone. if you want to be respected. Seems to me that you should al have better things to do...like get back to work!I may be mistaken, and my profound apologies if I am, but this post seems more like the post of a troll than anything else. The main contributors to this site do show respect. Everyone is given a chance. If a poster isn't professional on these forums, (whether new or a veteran of these forums) said poster gets jumped on for the lack of a professional manner.
The ones who don't get respect are those who have earned the disrespect. The disrespect is earned by repeatedly asking for answers without showing improvement or willingness to improve, just to have someone else do their work for them.
You say that unless the we have developed psychic powers that we have no right to question the posters. That's just the problem. We DON'T have psychic powers so that we can determine, at a distance with no data, just what the problem is and provide the correct answer. So, we have to rely on the old-fashioned way of posting questions to the Original Poster about the problem. And then hope that the psychic powers will activate so the reply can be understood.
Actually, I'm going to take Anthony's side on this (partly, anyway). While I do not agree with Anthony's original post, I don't think that there was anything particularly offensive or unreasonable about it and certainly nothing Trollish. A disagreement or a difference of perception honestly and reasonably stated, even if it is critical, shouldn't get someone labelled as a Troll, that's really not fair.
For one thing, being a Troll is very hard work, unreasonably hard work. And that's the best way to identify them: they're post's are unreasonable, they absolutely respond to *every* comment to them, but they don't actually respond to the content of critical comments, and they are *relentless*, seemingly unstoppable. Any Troll worthy of the name will have 20-30 mindless attacks posted before you can blink twice.
Anthony's post's aren't anything like this: he has just pointed out a perception, that in fact is *very* easy for readers and other lurkers to get about our attitude and behavior. I do not agree with it, and I do think that it's a misperception, but certainly an honest one. Lynn's response is, I think a proper one, and I agree with it completely.
I would have agreed until after I tried to engage and his response was something along the lines of "since you're trying to talk to me, you're jsut reinforcing my already negative opinion of you." At which point, I thought he was a troll.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
April 19, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Gianluca Sartori (4/19/2010)
Jeff Moden (4/16/2010)
Heh.... famous last words would be... [font="Arial Black"]AHHHHH CRAP![/font]Just so you guys know... remember I said that I changed my cteTally code to use Gianluca's wonderful idea of using UNPIVOT instead of 10 SELECT 1 UNION ALL's??? Well, it turns out that it's quite machine dependent. I used it to do a million row split on a box at work and it came in at 4:18. Just to see how much faster it was, I also ran the old 10 SELECT code... the old code came in at 3:48!!!!!! The old code came in 30 seconds faster. I ran the test multiple times in disbelief.
I'm looking for the couple of posts I used the UNPIVOT code so I can post a correction. If you happen to run across the UNPIVOT code in your travels, send me the URL (please) so I can make a correction. Thanks, folks.
Gosh! I'm sorry, Jeff. I hope you caught all the posts and this caused no damage.
It would be interesting to know the reasons behind. Probably it's the same thing that made it run faster on my laptop, but it still is mysterious to me.
Not to worry, Gianluca. Laptops and some older PCs (like the one I have and the one Phil Factor has) can operate quite a bit differently than "servers". I've not determined what the exact mechanism is. It made sense (in my mind) that a single UNPIVOT would work faster than 10 UNION'ed SELECTs and when it ran faster on my home machine, I just took it for granted. And, yes, I found all of my posts and also made a comment on ASK.
It was a really good idea, Gianluca, and I have to again congratulate you on the innovation... it just didn't pan out. I believe that no harm has been done and that even if someone uses it, it's still light speed faster than a While Loop.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 19, 2010 at 8:44 pm
anthony_merriwether (4/19/2010)
This is for all of you who are perturbed with the postings that you are seeing. I have read your replies and feel that you are all out of line and unless you have developed psychic powers, have no right to question the motives or reasons of those who post. He who is without sin, cast the first stone. If you do not like the post, do not insult the inquirer an expose your arrogance, for lack of a better word... simply do not respond to the post inquirer. Above all, remember this is not your web site, so show respect for everyone. if you want to be respected. Seems to me that you should al have better things to do...like get back to work!
Perhaps I'm the only one but I find it ironic that you exhibit the very traits you disdain the most.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
April 19, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Ray K (4/19/2010)
As the proud owner of a Toyota Highlander Hybrid, I resemble these remarks! 😛
How do you like the Highlander hybrid? Good mileage for you?
Viewing 15 posts - 14,551 through 14,565 (of 66,712 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply