February 18, 2009 at 5:30 am
Bruce W Cassidy (2/17/2009)
[font="Verdana"]A friend of mine wrote a book on why IT projects fail. One of the points he made (which I remember vividly) was that there are different levels or qualities of communication. Documentation is one of the least effective means of communication. And yet, in the IT community, we seem to treat it as the holy grail.People ask questions because interactive communication (even via a bulletin board) is a far more effective means of communication than is reading documentation. Reading non-interactive documentation is actually an acquired skill.
If all we needed to do to learn is read, then all our schools would need to teach is reading.
Link to book (for the curious): Software Project Secrets: Why Software Projects Fail
[/font]
Coming out of the Navy we spent a lot of time working with manuals. Yes, you're right that most learning is done outside the book, but that learning is for understanding concepts and chaining techniques. Remembering what was done and why, you either have to be a super brain, or you have to have the stuff written down. I must have BOL open all day long on my desktop(s) most days because I just can't remember it all and because I have to learn new things. Once the foundation is in place, the manual should be able to walk most people through most things. I know I've learned scads of techniques from only reading the manual.
However, to your point, I've also learned more, and quicker, by attending the right session at PASS or seeing some speaker at my local user group, or even asking a colleague to walk me through something I haven't done before.
But if I can't get to PASS now, if the latest speaker is covering SSIS when I need info on XQuery's or no one else in my shop has pulled data out of the XML in a compiled execution plan, then I need to hit the books to learn.
I'm always a little amazed that everyone working in technology doesn't do that.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
February 18, 2009 at 5:32 am
Jeff Moden (2/17/2009)
Lynn Pettis (2/17/2009)
GilaMonster (2/17/2009)
<Sigh> Why don't people read the manuals?Thinking and Reading that would mean. On silver plater answer should be.
Heh... "STAR"... Start Thinking And Reading. Or, "RATS"... Read and Think, Stupid.
Or... "Do you like pork chops?" 😛
I like RATS, but I suspect STAR will get us into a little less trouble.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
February 18, 2009 at 5:33 am
Jeff Moden (2/17/2009)
I agree... especially when the someone who writes the document is really a frustrated novelist and includes no code samples. Or worse... incorrect code samples and code samples that you can't actually run because they didn't provide the code to gen the test data.
Whoa! Go easy on us frustrated novelists. We need love too.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
February 18, 2009 at 6:30 am
For me this is how it goes... I at first had problem with BOL, because the functions were different from Oracle. So it was frustrating. Now I have the knowledge in MS SQL, I can look up almost anything in BOL. But I always like to see a sample code so that I know what the heck they mean... 😉
About STAR and RATS, I prefer RATS. If we can have KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid) as part of project management, we can have RATS... 😛
-Roy
February 18, 2009 at 6:55 am
As a follow-up to the whole thing about BOL, I did end up finding a book, The SQL 2000 Bible, that was adequate to get a total newbie (me) up to being able to handle the business needs that I had. But that's not "RTFM", that's "RTFB" ("Read the Fine Book", for the polite among us).
If BOL were written by professional communicators (writers) instead of by developers, it would be a more useful thing for beginners. And would be entirely too verbose for me now. These days, when I look something up in BOL, I generally want just the barest minimum of data on the syntax and maybe a sample or two of use. Sometimes (often) MS goes too far on that. Check out the entries for the XQuery functions, like "exist()". Totally useless. I know how to use that function, and still find the BOL entry useless, just like I did when I didn't know how to use the function.
BOL is great if what you want is the bare bones. Just the basic syntax, that kind of thing.
Beyond that, I have to recommend books, just like everyone else does.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 18, 2009 at 7:20 am
I have to agree on reading books. I have a bunch of books I keep in my car (my portable library) so I can have them at work and home if needed. However, not everyone has gone out and purchased the various books that are available and only have the forums and BOL to rely on, however, that doesn't mean they should avoid BOL in favor of the forums.
Sometimes it helps to at least try to use BOL first. If you can't find it, then ask for help but be sure to say "I can't find it in BOL." It's just like going to the Microsoft KnowledgeBase, I have used it many times, and there were times at my last employer I could spend an hour looking for something, go to a co-worker and in 5 minutes he'd bring me 3 or 4 articles related to what I was looking for and couldn't find.
They may have a problem finding what they are looking for in BOL, but then asking for help could show them where it is and how to find it. It sometimes comes down to knowing "how" to ask the question, not "what" question to ask.
In addition, if they make the attempt to find the answer themselves and can't, I'm more willing to help than if they just come looking for the answer without any effort of their own.
February 18, 2009 at 7:58 am
Dear Learned Ones:
I need help with a SQL Server problem. I don't understand exactly what's going on, or what I should be expecting, but my co-worker said I should ask the experts and see if anyone has any suggestions to make my SQL Server run better.
Thanks in advance.
Student of SQL and Golf, Master of Neither
February 18, 2009 at 8:05 am
Bob do you know the definition of an expert - An Ex is a has been and a spirt is a drip under pressure - Does that help 🙂
February 18, 2009 at 9:03 am
It was a dark and stormy night.....
On the subject of books, let's keep in mind that there is a difference between textbooks and reference books. Textbooks teach you concepts and techniques and reference books give you detailed information once you understand the concepts. There are some good textbooks out there, but BOL is a reference.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
February 18, 2009 at 9:43 am
My pet peeve of the day. OP's who do not read through the solutions provided and keep posting.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
February 18, 2009 at 9:48 am
Jack Corbett (2/18/2009)
My pet peeve of the day. OP's who do not read through the solutions provided and keep posting.
Any OP in particular?
February 18, 2009 at 9:51 am
Doesn't Jeff's article, Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help, tell you exactly how to post everything you need to get the best help possible?
If so, why can't people that say they have read the article follow it and post what we need?
February 18, 2009 at 9:55 am
Lynn Pettis (2/18/2009)
Jack Corbett (2/18/2009)
My pet peeve of the day. OP's who do not read through the solutions provided and keep posting.Any OP in particular?
Actually I have experienced more than 1 today which is why it is my pet peeve of the day. Of course it drives up my point total as I re-post something someone else has already posted, of course I always credit the original post. No plagiarism from me.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
February 18, 2009 at 9:56 am
Because that would be thinking and figuring things out? And also negate the need for this thread?
-- Kit
February 18, 2009 at 9:57 am
Jack Corbett (2/18/2009)
My pet peeve of the day. OP's who do not read through the solutions provided and keep posting.
Any thread in particular?
Viewing 15 posts - 1,396 through 1,410 (of 66,712 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply