February 16, 2010 at 3:50 pm
GT-897544 (2/16/2010)
The problem is some people are called DBA's, But they can't take any action until Gail or Paul post a solution.:-DEnjoY!
That is one point that I will agree with you on!
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
February 16, 2010 at 3:50 pm
tstaker (2/16/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/16/2010)
I don't get the impression that he is backing down at all from his position. He says he agrees, but I don't get the impression that he truly does with his parting shot.I observe the forums more than post. I'm only butting in with my .02 right now because a rare thought occurred to me reading that thread. Maybe he's giving bad advice and being so adamant because he likes to stir the pot and wants this type of energy from us? Are there really DBA's out there that bad?
Judging from this and other forums, yes, there are troll DBAs. My main concern with them is that they give this kind of garbage out, and if we don't respond forcefully, some poor "accidental DBA" somewhere will run into their posts and accept them as useful information. Stomping on them hard might help prevent that.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 16, 2010 at 3:54 pm
GT-897544 (2/16/2010)
Elliott W (2/16/2010)
Alvin Ramard (2/16/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/16/2010)
I don't get the impression that he is backing down at all from his position. He says he agrees, but I don't get the impression that he truly does with his parting shot.It sounded to me like he realized he was losing the argument and was walking away with whatever pride he still had left.
Almost time for a drink. I'll buy the first round.
Not sure there was a lot of pride left, he took quite a beating. I don't think he agrees either, but oh well.
I am ready if you all want to take part in one round discussion, most of you didn't read the posting completely that poster had already set the database to emergency mode.
EnjoY!
And in what possible universe does that stop him from going back and looking at the error logs, etc., as per proper procedure?
If you start out down the wrong path and discover you have done so, there's generally nothing stopping you from going back a step and heading the right direction.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 16, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Before you get into a dander any further. I have a couple questions, has this actually happened to you and how did you solve it? On reflection was that the right way or did you get lucky?
My point is and will continue to be that regardless of what the original poster had already done, the right answer was STILL to step back and determine WHY he had the problem.
I (unfortunately) have had this happen, the logs clearly showed a problem where a database file was not available and was caused by a LUN being offline, once that was resolved the problem was VERY easy to solve, but I wouldn't have known that if I didn't look at the logs. This is just one example..
If I may offer a suggestion. Just stop. Drop this issue altogether. Move on.
February 16, 2010 at 4:01 pm
GSquared (2/16/2010)
Judging from this and other forums, yes, there are troll DBAs. My main concern with them is that they give this kind of garbage out, and if we don't respond forcefully, some poor "accidental DBA" somewhere will run into their posts and accept them as useful information. Stomping on them hard might help prevent that.
My sentiments exactly. When people who know better allow people who don't to give bad advice that is not challenged, then those who don't know the difference between good and bad are more likely to accept and use that bad advice. Thereby perpetuating a problem for all who read the thread.
If I'm wrong, then so be it. I can't get everything right. But when you have combined experience of 40-80 years on a thread you are pretty likely to get a pretty good answer, one you can take to the bank.
February 16, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Elliott W (2/16/2010)
GSquared (2/16/2010)
Judging from this and other forums, yes, there are troll DBAs. My main concern with them is that they give this kind of garbage out, and if we don't respond forcefully, some poor "accidental DBA" somewhere will run into their posts and accept them as useful information. Stomping on them hard might help prevent that.My sentiments exactly. When people who know better allow people who don't to give bad advice that is not challenged, then those who don't know the difference between good and bad are more likely to accept and use that bad advice. Thereby perpetuating a problem for all who read the thread.
If I'm wrong, then so be it. I can't get everything right. But when you have combined experience of 40-80 years on a thread you are pretty likely to get a pretty good answer, one you can take to the bank.
Well ... assuming it's not 160 people with 6 months experience each .... 😛
Was it Steve that made the comment about some people having 10 years of experience and some people having 1 year of experience 10 times?
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 16, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Regardless of how you all feel about it, I'm Going Home!!!
😀
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
February 16, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Elliott W (2/16/2010)
GSquared (2/16/2010)
Judging from this and other forums, yes, there are troll DBAs. My main concern with them is that they give this kind of garbage out, and if we don't respond forcefully, some poor "accidental DBA" somewhere will run into their posts and accept them as useful information. Stomping on them hard might help prevent that.My sentiments exactly. When people who know better allow people who don't to give bad advice that is not challenged, then those who don't know the difference between good and bad are more likely to accept and use that bad advice. Thereby perpetuating a problem for all who read the thread.
If I'm wrong, then so be it. I can't get everything right. But when you have combined experience of 40-80 years on a thread you are pretty likely to get a pretty good answer, one you can take to the bank.
I hadn't thought of it in that way. I agree that correcting somebody is essential. Depending on the person, the correction might be more subtle. My concern is that the worst thing a geek could do is cyber-bully somebody. As long as it is professional, correct and not at the personal level - it is best to correct.
Now, if we don't take the criticism and correction professionally - then we have a problem. All of us have made mistakes from time to time. But we do everything we can to avoid the mistake, be organized, correct our mistakes, fess up to our mistakes - that is all a part of being professional.
ramble ramble ramble
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
February 16, 2010 at 4:13 pm
GSquared (2/16/2010)
tstaker (2/16/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/16/2010)
I don't get the impression that he is backing down at all from his position. He says he agrees, but I don't get the impression that he truly does with his parting shot.I observe the forums more than post. I'm only butting in with my .02 right now because a rare thought occurred to me reading that thread. Maybe he's giving bad advice and being so adamant because he likes to stir the pot and wants this type of energy from us? Are there really DBA's out there that bad?
Judging from this and other forums, yes, there are troll DBAs. My main concern with them is that they give this kind of garbage out, and if we don't respond forcefully, some poor "accidental DBA" somewhere will run into their posts and accept them as useful information. Stomping on them hard might help prevent that.
Lets check all the postings, how many DBA's had actually recommended solution to the postings? I saw most of them saying follow Gail Instructions or Steve Instructions or someone XYZ instructions, So there are no DBA's to to make suggestions? why they don't know the solution. Just sitting all day and telling follow some one instructions i am not blaming anyone here. General thought!!!
EnjoY!
February 16, 2010 at 4:17 pm
tstaker (2/16/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/16/2010)
I don't get the impression that he is backing down at all from his position. He says he agrees, but I don't get the impression that he truly does with his parting shot.I observe the forums more than post. I'm only butting in with my .02 right now because a rare thought occurred to me reading that thread. Maybe he's giving bad advice and being so adamant because he likes to stir the pot and wants this type of energy from us? Are there really DBA's out there that bad?
Possible, but I don't think so in this case.
That kind of person is a "Troll" and they are not hard to spot once you know what to look for. This fellow was just engaging in aggressive "Face-Saving": he post's strong advice, some other folks embarrass him by firmly pointing out that he is flat-out wrong, and rather than admit it (the best behavior), or even just slinking away (what most folks would do), his injured ego compels him to try and salvage some kind of advantage from the engagement, which just makes it worse.
It's not that uncommon behavior, and if I'm honest about it, I'd have to admit that I've been on the wrong side of this more than once in my life. Once you get your dander up, you lose good sense and then it's just a matter of how long it will take before you can pull yourself back to your senses and realize "I'm really digging a deep hole for myself here, I should just shut-up now." Having friends you can trust helps with this last part. 🙂
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
February 16, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Elliott W (2/16/2010)
Before you get into a dander any further. I have a couple questions, has this actually happened to you and how did you solve it? On reflection was that the right way or did you get lucky?My point is and will continue to be that regardless of what the original poster had already done, the right answer was STILL to step back and determine WHY he had the problem.
I (unfortunately) have had this happen, the logs clearly showed a problem where a database file was not available and was caused by a LUN being offline, once that was resolved the problem was VERY easy to solve, but I wouldn't have known that if I didn't look at the logs. This is just one example..
If I may offer a suggestion. Just stop. Drop this issue altogether. Move on.
If LUN went offline server team would have told you in first place, i am not against checking SQL error logs in first place, I don't agree with those who said you cannot extract data if database is set in Emergency mode.
EnjoY!
February 16, 2010 at 4:20 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (2/16/2010)
tstaker (2/16/2010)
@Alvin, Reminds me of what we call the person that Graduated last in Medical school.... Dr.And the one that Flunked out is DDS
Frankly, I always thought that they were the smart ones. When you look at the ROI (years+effort to get there, plus (hours per day)*(days per week) you have to work, vs. Income), it looks a whole lot better. 🙂
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
February 16, 2010 at 4:23 pm
RBarryYoung (2/16/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/16/2010)
tstaker (2/16/2010)
@Alvin, Reminds me of what we call the person that Graduated last in Medical school.... Dr.And the one that Flunked out is DDS
Frankly, I always thought that they were the smart ones. When you look at the ROI (years+effort to get there, plus (hours per day)*(days per week) you have to work, vs. Income), it looks a whole lot better. 🙂
Hmmm - I guess I better revise that old Seinfeld joke then. (I think it is the only thing from Seinfeld that I can recall.)
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
February 16, 2010 at 4:26 pm
So much for The Thread not having much activity lately. That corruption thread certainly got it going today. My inbox is filled with responses from
"Are the posted questions getting worse?"
February 16, 2010 at 4:27 pm
RBarryYoung (2/16/2010)
tstaker (2/16/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/16/2010)
I don't get the impression that he is backing down at all from his position. He says he agrees, but I don't get the impression that he truly does with his parting shot.I observe the forums more than post. I'm only butting in with my .02 right now because a rare thought occurred to me reading that thread. Maybe he's giving bad advice and being so adamant because he likes to stir the pot and wants this type of energy from us? Are there really DBA's out there that bad?
Possible, but I don't think so in this case.
That kind of person is a "Troll" and they are not hard to spot once you know what to look for. This fellow was just engaging in aggressive "Face-Saving": he post's strong advice, some other folks embarrass him by firmly pointing out that he is flat-out wrong, and rather than admit it (the best behavior), or even just slinking away (what most folks would do), his injured ego compels him to try and salvage some kind of advantage from the engagement, which just makes it worse.
It's not that uncommon behavior, and if I'm honest about it, I'd have to admit that I've been on the wrong side of this more than once in my life. Once you get your dander up, you lose good sense and then it's just a matter of how long it will take before you can pull yourself back to your senses and realize "I'm really digging a deep hole for myself here, I should just shut-up now." Having friends you can trust helps with this last part. 🙂
I learnt how to control my EGO when i was 18, It is unfortunate that those who never encountered the issue started to make suggestion follow Gail 's instruction because they didn't have anything to say 😛
EnjoY!
Viewing 15 posts - 11,521 through 11,535 (of 66,749 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply