November 25, 2009 at 8:30 am
Alvin Ramard (11/25/2009)
CirquedeSQLeil (11/25/2009)
Is that a 73-way tie for first place on a daily basis?I can't say Jason. I only have ten fingers so these bigs numbers can be a problem every now and then.
😉
is that avg(fingers) or sum(fingers) ?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
November 25, 2009 at 8:33 am
CirquedeSQLeil (11/25/2009)
Alvin Ramard (11/25/2009)
CirquedeSQLeil (11/25/2009)
Is that a 73-way tie for first place on a daily basis?I can't say Jason. I only have ten fingers so these bigs numbers can be a problem every now and then.
😉
is that avg(fingers) or sum(fingers) ?
hmmmmmm, it's 8 fingers and 2 thumbs. I'm excluding toes. My coworkers don't like it when I count on those.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
November 25, 2009 at 8:41 am
lnoland (11/24/2009)
[highlight=#1]I don't see a way to delete this so I guess you can just ignore it -- my Newbie stripes are showing here. When I posted this I didn't realize I was posting to a thread with almost 950 pages of comments. I have no idea what directions the discussion has taken over that many messages and I'm certainly don't have time to read 950 pages to find out so my apologies for the interruption -- have a good day.[/highlight]I suspect that at least part of the problem is general frustration with the quality of "self-help" solutions, at least on the web. At one time I could craft a reasonable query and stick it into Google and get several quality hits in a single page. These days, to find one decent hit it often takes running through several pages of links, many of which go to, by whatever route: the exact same article; amazon; ebay; or another search engine; (and perversely, the ones with the most promising previews on Google usually go to a page bearing a prominent 404). The signal to noise ratio has become rather outrageous.
Other forms of information have degraded as well. Microsoft Help files were always hard to search and often much too small, but years ago they were generally valuable nonetheless. These days, for consumer-level software they are usually impossible to search effectively, often missing anything but the most basic information, and tend to lead more to frustration than clarity. The professionional-level stuff has much better information but for basic learning, the endless maze of hyperlinks to paragraph-length sections with no apparent organizing factor makes utilization of the information a massive chore.
I suspect that many people have just given up -- instead they use a search-engine to find an appropriate forum and then they just go in and ask their question. That, of course, leads to the type of frustration exhibited here. And for those of us who generally favor looking up the answer, rather than asking the question, that leads to another form of frustration -- the fact that a Google search will often reveal (once one weeds through all the crap) a fair number of forums where someone is asking the exact question to which we are seeking an answer but when we follow the link to the forum we see that no one has ever responded to the question.
-- Les
That's a really good post and reminder, Les. Thanks and welcome aboard.
Just as a point of discussion, though... There are people who fit in the category of having tried to help themselves and newbies that maybe don't know how to try very well because you just don't know what you don't know. You can pretty much tell who those people are and I don't mind giving them a hint, maybe a URL that fits the problem well, or an outright code answer.
Then there are the people that don't want to try, can't be bothered to try, or are just arrogant. Those are the ones that cough up a laundry list (sometimes it's obviously from a test or homework assignment) of problems or you can just tell they're too bloody lazy to try on their own. A good example of the later is the person who just asked for interview questions for SQL Server and another who asked for what to say on a resume so the he could look like he knew what he was talking about (actually happened quite recently). The first page of GOOGLE hits were excellent for both and for that second guy? I wouldn't give him the sweat of my pork chops if he were dieing of thirst in the desert.
There are also "urgent" requests and they normally contain that word in the title of the post. These are frequently people who have spent absolutely no time learning what they need to do and are now under the gun. The urgency may be do to a real production problem, an overdue homework assignment or a test in progress either for an interview or a "university course". They are frequently accompanied by an unbelievable level of arrogance.
Then there are the people who have hundreds of posts who have been told about the wonders of Books Online and have been shown how to post questions in a fashion to get the best answer possible as quickly as possible... yet they continue to ask stupid simple questions (sometimes, literally the same question) that anyone who has been working with SQL for more than an hour should already know or be able to easily find in Books Online because we taught them how. They also continue to post crap data and crap problem descriptions over and over even though they've been pointed to a rather nice article that shows them how to post with little effort, but will really make it easy for them to get a proper answer.
Then, there're the arrogant moroffs that think we live to answer their questions that demand answers now and are very rude when you ask them a question to clarify their very poorly worded or extremely dangerous-to-the-data question. One of the questions asked is "what have you tried" or "please show us the code of what you've done already" because even broken/incomplete code usually shows what the aim of the OP really is. Or, you suggest that they can do something without a cursor or some other Death-by-SQL method and they take your head of for not answering their original question.
Yeah... I feel bad for the real Joe-Bag'o-Donuts guy or gal who has had the DBA or SQL Developer position upon their shoulders. I feel bad for experienced DBA/Devs that really are up to their eyes in hot water or have really tried things on the own (they will frequently show code or a description that could have been written only after trying). I really feel bad for the newbie that doesn't even know what to ask or where to start. That's part of the reason why some of us spend so many hours each week (sometimes each day) trying to help the "other guy" because we've all had the same problems and we were all newbies at one time...
... but we want to be treated with the same respect they expect at least at the basic human level, we want them to remember that if they're not willing to learn how to do their job, we're not actually going to do their whole job for them, and that we're not a form of point'n'click instant online help. Because we're human and we have the same (an more) frustations with many of the OPs, some of us do end up whipping a pork chop or two at an OP or fellow respondent.
Heh... "fellow respondent"... there are some people that will post answers that fit into the category of what I politely call "unqualified answers". (My favorite one is "Oh, you need a cursor for that. :-P) These are usually answers that are so far out in left field that you just can't leave them untouched for fear of what the general public may actually use. Of course, there are several ways those come out... anywhere from "no response" to a full blown "F4" (Full Fledged Food Fight ;-))
Going all the way back to your original thoughful observation...yep... we all need the occasional reminder of what some of these poor slobs are going through and thanks for that. Heh... but I'm still not going to take very much in the form of rudeness, arrogance, or laziness from any OP and I'll sometimes strike back because I only have one cheek to turn.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 25, 2009 at 8:47 am
CirquedeSQLeil (11/25/2009)
Alvin Ramard (11/25/2009)
CirquedeSQLeil (11/25/2009)
Is that a 73-way tie for first place on a daily basis?I can't say Jason. I only have ten fingers so these bigs numbers can be a problem every now and then.
😉
is that avg(fingers) or sum(fingers) ?
STDEV of daily fingers. 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 25, 2009 at 8:49 am
Grant Fritchey (11/25/2009)
GilaMonster (11/25/2009)
Ok, I vote this as one of the more ... 'questionable' recommendations I've read here recently.As your log file is very huge, and it is required to Truncate the log file for proper utilization of disk space, you need to stop the Mirroring activity, truncate the transaction log, change the database type to Simple (only if this is allowed in your business case), take a full backup and then reconfigure the database Mirroring.
Followed by
Reconfiguring the Mirroring database of 200 MB is small task and can be done in 30min - 1 hour time. This does not require the principal database down even (no downtime required). You should convience the business owner
Um. Yeah, well, ok....
Yeah, my jaw hit my chest when I saw that one too.
What's the link for that post? I've gotta see it in person. 🙂
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 25, 2009 at 8:56 am
Jeff Moden (11/25/2009)
Grant Fritchey (11/25/2009)
GilaMonster (11/25/2009)
Ok, I vote this as one of the more ... 'questionable' recommendations I've read here recently.As your log file is very huge, and it is required to Truncate the log file for proper utilization of disk space, you need to stop the Mirroring activity, truncate the transaction log, change the database type to Simple (only if this is allowed in your business case), take a full backup and then reconfigure the database Mirroring.
Followed by
Reconfiguring the Mirroring database of 200 MB is small task and can be done in 30min - 1 hour time. This does not require the principal database down even (no downtime required). You should convience the business owner
Um. Yeah, well, ok....
Yeah, my jaw hit my chest when I saw that one too.
What's the link for that post? I've gotta see it in person. 🙂
I think this'll do it: http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic823712-357-1.aspx
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
November 25, 2009 at 9:07 am
GilaMonster (11/25/2009)
........... (11/25/2009)
Gila you sound like Doomsday Prophet. This is South Africa.Jy ook? So baie mense van Suid-Afrika op hierdie forums.
I have no clue as to what Gail said, but I had to laugh.
:-D:hehe::-P:hehe::-)
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
November 25, 2009 at 9:14 am
Alvin Ramard (11/25/2009)
GilaMonster (11/25/2009)
........... (11/25/2009)
Gila you sound like Doomsday Prophet. This is South Africa.Jy ook? So baie mense van Suid-Afrika op hierdie forums.
I have no clue as to what Gail said, but I had to laugh.
:-D:hehe::-P:hehe::-)
Not sure on the translation, but this is what google seems to think she said...
November 25, 2009 at 9:16 am
Alvin Ramard (11/25/2009)
GilaMonster (11/25/2009)
........... (11/25/2009)
Gila you sound like Doomsday Prophet. This is South Africa.Jy ook? So baie mense van Suid-Afrika op hierdie forums.
I have no clue as to what Gail said, but I had to laugh.
"You also? So many people from South Africa on these forums."
Could have said anything. Since very few people from outside SA can speak Afrikaans, it's just a clear way to say to show where I'm from.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
November 25, 2009 at 9:17 am
Alvin Ramard (11/25/2009)
CirquedeSQLeil (11/25/2009)
Is that a 73-way tie for first place on a daily basis?I can't say Jason. I only have ten fingers so these bigs numbers can be a problem every now and then.
😉
You can count to over 1,000 (decimal) on your fingers, if you use them in a binary fashion.
All fingers folded = 0
Right thumb = 1
Right index = 2
Right index and thumb = 3
Right middle = 4
Right middle and thumb = 5
Right middle and index = 6
Right middle, index and thumb = 7
Right ring = 8
etc.
10 fingers yields 2 to the tenth power, just counting on your fingers.
And 4, 5, 128, and 160 are all fun numbers (right middle = 4, left middle = 128, thumbs add 1 for right and 32 for left). Also, bet you never knew heavy metal fans were so into the number 627, did you? :w00t:
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
November 25, 2009 at 9:18 am
Luke L (11/25/2009)
Alvin Ramard (11/25/2009)
GilaMonster (11/25/2009)
........... (11/25/2009)
Gila you sound like Doomsday Prophet. This is South Africa.Jy ook? So baie mense van Suid-Afrika op hierdie forums.
I have no clue as to what Gail said, but I had to laugh.
:-D:hehe::-P:hehe::-)
Not sure on the translation, but this is what google seems to think she said...
I guessed that that was what you were trying to achieve.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
November 25, 2009 at 9:25 am
Thanks Grant for the link. Interesting thread it was.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
November 25, 2009 at 9:40 am
Hey, I used to count binary on my fingers in comp sci. Back in the 8 bit days when we needed to bit mask to fit things in. Always started with the right hand.
all fingers up - 0
pinky down - 1
ring down, pinky up - 2
ring down, pinky down - 3
middle down - 4
...
November 25, 2009 at 10:03 am
Alvin Ramard (11/25/2009)
Roy Ernest (11/25/2009)
I sometimes feel that the thread rules us... We dont rule the thread anymore. It has evolved itself into a controlling beingTo the new folks in here, remember:
Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated!!!!
You spelled 'assimilated' wrong, that should be 'p-o-l-l-u-t-e-d'...
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
November 25, 2009 at 10:31 am
jcrawf02 (11/25/2009)
Alvin Ramard (11/25/2009)
Roy Ernest (11/25/2009)
I sometimes feel that the thread rules us... We dont rule the thread anymore. It has evolved itself into a controlling beingTo the new folks in here, remember:
Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated!!!!
You spelled 'assimilated' wrong, that should be 'p-o-l-l-u-t-e-d'...
Heh... at least he got the first 3 letters correct. 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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