Are the posted questions getting worse?
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For Jeff, because I was having fun...
- Steve Jones - SSC Editor wrote:
Of course not. It never works the first time. Usually I need to unplug and replug something.
Cry last time I rebuilt my computer I used an old windows install(it should just update to the newest version after installing right?) and it would install fine, then never boot again, reseated everything multiple times before figuring it out....
- ZZartin wrote:Steve Jones - SSC Editor wrote:
Of course not. It never works the first time. Usually I need to unplug and replug something.
Cry last time I rebuilt my computer I used an old windows install(it should just update to the newest version after installing right?) and it would install fine, then never boot again, reseated everything multiple times before figuring it out....
The last time I built my own PC was with a Cyrix processor.
Michael L John
If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
To properly post on a forum:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/ - Steve Jones - SSC Editor wrote:
For Jeff, because I was having fun...
Heh... if you want to have some real fun, have someone successfully answer the question and then look them square in the face and ask them, "Ok... but what would you do tomorrow"? 😀 😀 😀 When they ask what I mean, point out that their ChatGTP answer just recommend using a VARCHAR() column on a fixed width result that will never change. 😀
And then ask them to add a space after that string and see what they say. You know... maybe save a couple o' clock cycles by using a CHAR(20), instead? 😀
That's a part of the why I love that question... so many different tangents to go down from there.
Heh... and thanks for thinking of me.
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
At first it would overheat because the connection between the watercooler and its controller got loose. Long live the internet for instructions.
Also had some fun misreading the windows license a few times and the network driver wouldn't install.
Now, it's humming along nicely
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Note I teach/tutor for free and have an online Discord server with 80 plus students at verying levels of expertise. My first motto is (and all my students know it) that the only stupid/dumb/bad question for someone seeking knowledge is the question they chose not to ask. That being said, I also try to teach my students by teaching them to fish rather than just giving them a fish. That way I teach them for a lifetime rather than just a day.
Similar means can be done on forums such as this by outlining the potential solutions and/or pointing someone where to look for quality answers. Keep in mind that just because you can google it does not make it a correct answers. I have encountered more than one situation where wanna-be-know-it-alls are copying wrong answers to questions and propogating them as the solution. Then alot of these wrong answers get out there as correct answers and googling it gives you the wrong answer. Which may or may not even work for you and you are lucky if it does not work because usually the wrong answer being propogated is a sleeper issue waiting to spring on you later on.
So that being said, always try to respond respectfully to potential students as those you teach well are also those that learn from their students. It is a two way street. Further if you phrase your answers in a manner that is meant to educate rather than just give them the straight answer you are doing them a service by making them think and understand what it is they are implementing. So keep up the good work and persevere if you help even a single individual improve you have done more than many others do in their lifetime.
- Dennis Jensen wrote:
Note I teach/tutor for free and have an online Discord server with 80 plus students at verying levels of expertise. My first motto is (and all my students know it) that the only stupid/dumb/bad question for someone seeking knowledge is the question they chose not to ask. That being said, I also try to teach my students by teaching them to fish rather than just giving them a fish. That way I teach them for a lifetime rather than just a day.
Similar means can be done on forums such as this by outlining the potential solutions and/or pointing someone where to look for quality answers. Keep in mind that just because you can google it does not make it a correct answers. I have encountered more than one situation where wanna-be-know-it-alls are copying wrong answers to questions and propogating them as the solution. Then alot of these wrong answers get out there as correct answers and googling it gives you the wrong answer. Which may or may not even work for you and you are lucky if it does not work because usually the wrong answer being propogated is a sleeper issue waiting to spring on you later on.
So that being said, always try to respond respectfully to potential students as those you teach well are also those that learn from their students. It is a two way street. Further if you phrase your answers in a manner that is meant to educate rather than just give them the straight answer you are doing them a service by making them think and understand what it is they are implementing. So keep up the good work and persevere if you help even a single individual improve you have done more than many others do in their lifetime.
There is a difference between someone that wants to learn and a leech, though. 😉
And I enjoyed your comment of...
I have encountered more than one situation where wanna-be-know-it-alls are copying wrong answers to questions and propogating them as the solution.
There's seems to be a pandemic there and it's been very long lived. It has even permeated paid online and in-person courses to a point of being somewhat prevalent. Of course, the trouble is that the students have no defense against such things because they can not yet distinguish right from wrong. Even official Microsoft documentation has had that issue in many places for decades long periods.
Shifting gears to a more fun and interesting but related subject, do you teach your students how to quickly create large amounts of random but constrained test data so that they can defend themselves from "expert opinions" in the critical areas of accuracy and performance of code?
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) - Dennis Jensen wrote:
My first motto is (and all my students know it) that the only stupid/dumb/bad question for someone seeking knowledge is the question they chose not to ask.
My motto is that if a student has asked the same question thrice, some form of realization is necessary on my part.
- The first time they've asked the question, I ask myself what I'm doing wrong as the teacher and will possibly adjust the explanation.
- The second time they ask, I again assume #1 above along with the notion that the student may be having difficulty and possibly adjust again.
- The third time they ask essentially the same question, I'll give them personal tutelage to find out if the problem actually is 1 or 2 above for sure or the 3rd possibility of them developing the leech habit. If the latter, then the lesson changes.
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) -
Today is Steve’s birthday. He’s turning 25.
Michael L John
If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
To properly post on a forum:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/ -
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Latest news, Microsoft is replacing all developers with ChatGPT!
😎
A different approach to "an indefinite number of monkeys with typewriters..." producing sensible output.
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First I am still learning this forum so do not know how to properly quote messages but to answer Jeff Moden 2nd statement then 1st.
I concur with your Steps 1, 2, and 3 as every student is unique each with their own best method of learning. It is the same with communication (which is what teach is about), if the listener did not perceive what the speaker was saying for whatever reason the fault lies with the speaker because communication by definition is about communicating and their is no guarantee that the receiver is going to listen -- so although the popular concept is that communication is a two-way street is a lie and folks good at communicating have known this back in the BCs and yet we today still want to blame the listener for poor communication skills. All I have to say is okay using your logic explain to me how the reponsibility resides in part with the listener if someone is communicating to a hostile audience? *drop the mic and hand the person a paper with the link to How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie a free online PDF*
Two answer your second question -- I teach my students all aspects of quality coding based on what they are asking about -- my online class/lab is free -- as such it is not a structured class and I do not think anyone has asked yet about quality Unit Tests something I have my team of developers starting to do as they were not doing it before. I also encourage students to help other students because sometimes the best way to learn is to try to teach someone else. However, I monitor everything to make sure the help is valid help and the one helping does not themselves need help. Still I am the one who answers most of the questions. However due to some of the topics that have come up in the classroom I do have to, on occasions, defer to one of my students as that is actually their area of expertise.
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I absolutely agree that it may not "be the listener" at fault... especially after seeing so many different "speakers". I definitely believe we're on the same page in that area.
On the "second" question... I'm also a "listener/student". When I first started out in SQL Server (late in the life of SQL Server 6.5) , I noticed a lot of, what I call, "Ring Knockers" that claimed expertise simply because of "time in service" or because of some alphabet soup after their name. They were also condescending, arrogant, gas-lighting, passive-aggressive and, as you so appropriately noted before, "know-it-all-wanna-be's". There was no verbal defense that I could come up with because of my low "time in service". That's when I taught myself to quickly make a shedload of test data that would fit whatever problem was being discussed and simply let the code do the talking.
That's why I was making the suggestion to teach your students similar. It will not only protect them from those kinds of people "on the job", but it will also protect them from becoming "know-it-all-wanna-be's" that continue to propagate bad info like the people that we're talking about.
It will also enable them to become absolute monsters (in a very good way) in the "Black Arts" of T-SQL and SQL Server.
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally) - Jeff Moden wrote:
I absolutely agree that it may not "be the listener" at fault... especially after seeing so many different "speakers". I definitely believe we're on the same page in that area.
On the "second" question... I'm also a "listener/student". When I first started out in SQL Server (late in the life of SQL Server 6.5) , I noticed a lot of, what I call, "Ring Knockers" that claimed expertise simply because of "time in service" or because of some alphabet soup after their name. They were also condescending, arrogant, gas-lighting, passive-aggressive and, as you so appropriately noted before, "know-it-all-wanna-be's". There was no verbal defense that I could come up with because of my low "time in service". That's when I taught myself to quickly make a shedload of test data that would fit whatever problem was being discussed and simply let the code do the talking.
That's why I was making the suggestion to teach your students similar. It will not only protect them from those kinds of people "on the job", but it will also protect them from becoming "know-it-all-wanna-be's" that continue to propagate bad info like the people that we're talking about.
It will also enable them to become absolute monsters (in a very good way) in the "Black Arts" of T-SQL and SQL Server.
Ring knocker here. I have 25+ years of SQL Server experience, you should listen to what I have to say. 😉
One a personal note, continuous learner here as there is always something new to learn about SQL Server and Jeff is my goto mentor.
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Just in case anyone else is reading this and doesn't know, Lynn is anything but a "Ring Knocker". He's a regular on these forums, has written some great articles, and has helped a whole lot of people. He says I'm his "goto mentor" (and I'm both deeply honored and humbled by him saying such a thing) but I've learned a whole lot from him, as well.
To paraphrase "Red-Green"... "I'm pullin' for ya... we're all in this together". 😀
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)
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