August 7, 2021 at 4:05 am
Have any of you good folks used the "Automatic Tuning" feature of SQL Server 2016 for on-prem? If so, how'd it work out for you?
I ask because I have this nasty vision of it automatically creating and dropping huge numbers of possibly unwanted indexes on huge, highly active tables using the same frequently very poor "logic" that shows up in "missing indexes" at just the wrong times on a very busy system along with the fact that Query Store will be running, which also scares the bejeezus out of me for resource usage (and I wouldn't mind some experienced discussion there either). A good part of my fears are based on all the super-positive hype available online that smells a bit like Purple Kool-Aid coming from an all-too shiny bottle with an MS label on it. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
August 7, 2021 at 2:51 pm
Have any of you good folks used the "Automatic Tuning" feature of SQL Server 2016 for on-prem? If so, how'd it work out for you?
I ask because I have this nasty vision of it automatically creating and dropping huge numbers of possibly unwanted indexes on huge, highly active tables using the same frequently very poor "logic" that shows up in "missing indexes" at just the wrong times on a very busy system along with the fact that Query Store will be running, which also scares the bejeezus out of me for resource usage (and I wouldn't mind some experienced discussion there either). A good part of my fears are based on all the super-positive hype available online that smells a bit like Purple Kool-Aid coming from an all-too shiny bottle with an MS label on it. 😀
Just for what it's worth, I have always been extremely skeptical of such features what purport to understand my database design better than I do. I'm not perfect, but this is always a bit scary.
I have no problem with software that makes suggestions for improvement, but always want to have the final say before changes are made. There may be some benefit for things resulting from lack of experience, but caution is always due.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
August 8, 2021 at 11:59 am
Speaking of Full Stack Dev job adverts, what does this one say to you?
Knowledge/Skills/Abilities/Experience
Full Stack .Net technical Team lead with C# and Angular
Team of 40 total with multiple teams of 7 developers with Onshore and Offshore
Experience in responsive web front end / single page application development using modular JavaScript including apps targeted for mobile devicesHands on experience on modern JavaScript tools such as Webpack, Babel, ESLint, Gulp, NPM, Bower, Browserify, Grunt and similar technologies
Experience in backend development design and implementation; database (relational, NoSQL, caching), messaging and big data development, implementation and optimization
5+ years of developing and implementing systems at scale
Strong understanding of computer science concepts, object-oriented design principle
Basic understanding of distributed systems, operating systems, networking, databases, security, and analytics
Experience developing software in different programming languages, and demonstrated ability to quickly learn new languages
Actual experience developing continuous integration, continuous delivery and continuous deployment pipelines for distributed apps (CI/CD
Knowledge and experience on approaches and tools for automated testing and monitoring
Experience in Test Driven Development; including knowledge and experience in testing frameworks like testcafe, junit, mockito, jasmine, protractor, cucumber, and other like technologies
Able to learn new technologies, and teach other members of the team/s
A college degree or equivalent experience in Computer Science or similar field, including a solid understanding of Computer Science fundamentals
August 9, 2021 at 2:54 am
Speaking of Full Stack Dev job adverts, what does this one say to you?
Knowledge/Skills/Abilities/Experience Full Stack .Net technical Team lead with C# and Angular Team of 40 total with multiple teams of 7 developers with Onshore and Offshore Experience in responsive web front end / single page application development using modular JavaScript including apps targeted for mobile devicesHands on experience on modern JavaScript tools such as Webpack, Babel, ESLint, Gulp, NPM, Bower, Browserify, Grunt and similar technologies Experience in backend development design and implementation; database (relational, NoSQL, caching), messaging and big data development, implementation and optimization 5+ years of developing and implementing systems at scale Strong understanding of computer science concepts, object-oriented design principle Basic understanding of distributed systems, operating systems, networking, databases, security, and analytics Experience developing software in different programming languages, and demonstrated ability to quickly learn new languages Actual experience developing continuous integration, continuous delivery and continuous deployment pipelines for distributed apps (CI/CD Knowledge and experience on approaches and tools for automated testing and monitoring Experience in Test Driven Development; including knowledge and experience in testing frameworks like testcafe, junit, mockito, jasmine, protractor, cucumber, and other like technologies Able to learn new technologies, and teach other members of the team/s A college degree or equivalent experience in Computer Science or similar field, including a solid understanding of Computer Science fundamentals
Pretty much s piece from a Russian folk tale:
Go there I don't know where, bring me that I don't know what.
_____________
Code for TallyGenerator
August 9, 2021 at 4:46 am
Jeff Moden wrote:Have any of you good folks used the "Automatic Tuning" feature of SQL Server 2016 for on-prem? If so, how'd it work out for you?
I ask because I have this nasty vision of it automatically creating and dropping huge numbers of possibly unwanted indexes on huge, highly active tables using the same frequently very poor "logic" that shows up in "missing indexes" at just the wrong times on a very busy system along with the fact that Query Store will be running, which also scares the bejeezus out of me for resource usage (and I wouldn't mind some experienced discussion there either). A good part of my fears are based on all the super-positive hype available online that smells a bit like Purple Kool-Aid coming from an all-too shiny bottle with an MS label on it. 😀
Just for what it's worth, I have always been extremely skeptical of such features what purport to understand my database design better than I do. I'm not perfect, but this is always a bit scary.
I have no problem with software that makes suggestions for improvement, but always want to have the final say before changes are made. There may be some benefit for things resulting from lack of experience, but caution is always due.
I'm tickled that someone feels pretty much as I do on these things. Thanks for the feedback, Rick.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
August 9, 2021 at 2:31 pm
Speaking of Full Stack Dev job adverts, what does this one say to you?
At more than passing ability in most of these areas, this says $150k a year.
Not sure what "at scale" means, or how important any of these areas are, relative to each other. No one will be great at all these areas, and "experience" might be very light in some.
August 9, 2021 at 2:44 pm
Have any of you good folks used the "Automatic Tuning" feature of SQL Server 2016 for on-prem? If so, how'd it work out for you?
I ask because I have this nasty vision of it automatically creating and dropping huge numbers of possibly unwanted indexes on huge, highly active tables using the same frequently very poor "logic" that shows up in "missing indexes" at just the wrong times on a very busy system along with the fact that Query Store will be running, which also scares the bejeezus out of me for resource usage (and I wouldn't mind some experienced discussion there either). A good part of my fears are based on all the super-positive hype available online that smells a bit like Purple Kool-Aid coming from an all-too shiny bottle with an MS label on it. 😀
I haven't done it on production. However, in testing and development, I do see some thrash on the indexes. It wasn't radical in testing, but it was evident. It suggests that some workloads might see pain. Hard to know beyond that based on my work with it.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
August 9, 2021 at 3:02 pm
Thanks for the feedback, Grant. I am concerned. While I wouldn't expect such a thing to be "radical" in a test and development environment, seeing "some" thrash and having be "evident" are all spooky words. You've just gotta wonder what this is going to do on a prod system that has a few thousand indexes (yeah... I know... not me) on it. I don't have huge stuff but I do have a far bit of non-clustered indexes that are each almost as large as some folks entire databases.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
August 9, 2021 at 3:15 pm
Brandie Tarvin wrote:Speaking of Full Stack Dev job adverts, what does this one say to you?
At more than passing ability in most of these areas, this says $150k a year.
Not sure what "at scale" means, or how important any of these areas are, relative to each other. No one will be great at all these areas, and "experience" might be very light in some.
In western Pennsylvania, a senior "full stack" developer is starting at 175k + per year. There are a lot of forces driving certain technical salaries up in this area. DBA's are not one of them, however! One is robotics and AI. We have quite a few companies that are very well funded doing self-driving cars and a variety of commercial robotics. The second is that Google, Amazon, and a lot of other "big boys" are significantly increasing their technical presence.
Michael L John
If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
To properly post on a forum:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/
August 9, 2021 at 3:17 pm
Thanks for the feedback, Grant. I am concerned. While I wouldn't expect such a thing to be "radical" in a test and development environment, seeing "some" thrash and having be "evident" are all spooky words. You've just gotta wonder what this is going to do on a prod system that has a few thousand indexes (yeah... I know... not me) on it. I don't have huge stuff but I do have a far bit of non-clustered indexes that are each almost as large as some folks entire databases.
The only hard assurance I can offer is, it never, ever, messes with unique indexes.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
August 9, 2021 at 3:24 pm
Jeff Moden wrote:Thanks for the feedback, Grant. I am concerned. While I wouldn't expect such a thing to be "radical" in a test and development environment, seeing "some" thrash and having be "evident" are all spooky words. You've just gotta wonder what this is going to do on a prod system that has a few thousand indexes (yeah... I know... not me) on it. I don't have huge stuff but I do have a far bit of non-clustered indexes that are each almost as large as some folks entire databases.
The only hard assurance I can offer is, it never, ever, messes with unique indexes.
BWAAAA-HAAAA!!!! I did a major SPOM on that one. 😀 My though was "Ok.. they blow stuff up using dynamite but are smart enough to know not to mess with nukes". 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
August 9, 2021 at 4:07 pm
Grant Fritchey wrote:Jeff Moden wrote:Thanks for the feedback, Grant. I am concerned. While I wouldn't expect such a thing to be "radical" in a test and development environment, seeing "some" thrash and having be "evident" are all spooky words. You've just gotta wonder what this is going to do on a prod system that has a few thousand indexes (yeah... I know... not me) on it. I don't have huge stuff but I do have a far bit of non-clustered indexes that are each almost as large as some folks entire databases.
The only hard assurance I can offer is, it never, ever, messes with unique indexes.
BWAAAA-HAAAA!!!! I did a major SPOM on that one. 😀 My though was "Ok.. they blow stuff up using dynamite but are smart enough to know not to mess with nukes". 😀
Ok, what am I missing? I can't find anything that remotely resembles "automatic tuning" in SQL 2016. SQL 2017 added Automatic Plan Tuning, and Azure has the automated index analysis, but I see nothing in 2016
Michael L John
If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
To properly post on a forum:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/
August 9, 2021 at 5:11 pm
Well, after a 3 year absence I decided to take another look at SSC........Nice to see a lot of the names I remember still posting.
Am no longer earning with SQL, but think I will get back into it to keep the problem-solving brain cells active 🙂
I am reviewing the posts on a PC ....is the site always so damn slow when refreshing for new content (Forums>Active threads)...taking 10+ secs to refresh...........and why so much white space on listings? Don't remember the site being so slow before...?
Anyways maybe will pop in now and again and start attempting to answer a few Qs.....
Am going to go download SQL Dev 2019 edition....any major changes since 2015 version?
Cheers
PS...how the hell did I get 51272 points and become a "Guru"....no way am I or ever was a "Guru" , some update to the forum must have screwed up ! ROFLMAO
________________________________________________________________
you can lead a user to data....but you cannot make them think
and remember....every day is a school day
August 9, 2021 at 5:41 pm
Well, after a 3 year absence I decided to take another look at SSC........Nice to see a lot of the names I remember still posting.
Am no longer earning with SQL, but think I will get back into it to keep the problem-solving brain cells active 🙂
I am reviewing the posts on a PC ....is the site always so damn slow when refreshing for new content (Forums>Active threads)...taking 10+ secs to refresh...........and why so much white space on listings? Don't remember the site being so slow before...?
Anyways maybe will pop in now and again and start attempting to answer a few Qs..... Am going to go download SQL Dev 2019 edition....any major changes since 2015 version?
Cheers
PS...how the hell did I get 51272 points and become a "Guru"....no way am I or ever was a "Guru" , some update to the forum must have screwed up ! ROFLMAO
J:
Welcome back. I think generally the website speed is pretty good. But there are good and bad days. Mine does vary a bit now and then, but nothing out of the ordinary compared to other sites the same day. Could be a performance issue when discussions grow to hundreds of comments, such as this one with 65k comments >:)
Something I do notice lately is that in some of the emails from the discussions which include a link, the link does not always take me to the correct location, sometimes even to an entirely different discussion.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
August 9, 2021 at 7:32 pm
Jeff Moden wrote:Grant Fritchey wrote:Jeff Moden wrote:Thanks for the feedback, Grant. I am concerned. While I wouldn't expect such a thing to be "radical" in a test and development environment, seeing "some" thrash and having be "evident" are all spooky words. You've just gotta wonder what this is going to do on a prod system that has a few thousand indexes (yeah... I know... not me) on it. I don't have huge stuff but I do have a far bit of non-clustered indexes that are each almost as large as some folks entire databases.
The only hard assurance I can offer is, it never, ever, messes with unique indexes.
BWAAAA-HAAAA!!!! I did a major SPOM on that one. 😀 My though was "Ok.. they blow stuff up using dynamite but are smart enough to know not to mess with nukes". 😀
Ok, what am I missing? I can't find anything that remotely resembles "automatic tuning" in SQL 2016. SQL 2017 added Automatic Plan Tuning, and Azure has the automated index analysis, but I see nothing in 2016
No... You're not missing anything. I'm thinking that I got confused by the way a post was worded (I didn't save the link either). The post was talking about requirements for it and it talked about Query Store being enabled, which did come out in 2016. Well, unless I got that wrong as well. 😀 Heh... apparently it's been a couple of tough weeks for me brain wise. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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