July 1, 2019 at 6:57 pm
Steve -
You made a decision to release, knowing some issues, while some others popped up as more people started seeing things. And when you say some issues regressed as others were fixed, that basically says when fixing an issue, some dependencies weren’t understood.
When you say part of the decision was your schedule, that explains a lot. Very few have the ability to influence a release based on their schedule. And your statement about not having taken a more active role throughout is a bit unexpected. So you likely were somewhat blindsided a bit with some of the issues. And became much more involved after going live.
In the end, it is what it is. Move on and note what could be done to improve in the future. Most would have expected more volunteers, plus some more scripted testing for them to do. Internal links should be high on the list to test, while external links relies more on post deployment indexing of the site by the search engines. I’m sure far more hours were spent than expected after release doing fixes.
I can relate to the formatting - what some like, others don’t. And some of it can be related to the device being used. Functionality always rated much higher in what I built.
So thanks for sharing some of the additional background. For me, it helps me understand some of the things behind a somewhat bumpy release. It is a great site, with a lot of tremendous people willing to help others learn and solve both the simple and complex issues they run into.
July 1, 2019 at 11:07 pm
I'll leave this here, as we're not going to agree.
...
I hope you all still find the site and community worth supporting and continue to do so, but if not, I understand. I think we've made improvements that are moving us forward, and we continue to get resources to address some issues, though more in a time slice way now with other projects. Again, I am sorry for the issues that have upset some of you.
As I said early on and it is something that I believe we can all agree on... it'll take more than all of this to kill the community. SSC is dead! Long live SSC!!!
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
July 2, 2019 at 12:31 am
below86 wrote:But just ripping into the site isn't going to help anything change; we all know that constructive feedback is far better received. We've all experienced users that only see the "bad" things about the software they use, and never the good parts (like that actually, that 99.9% of the time the system functions, and that even if it's been down for 1 minute in the last year it's actually not a pile of sh....).
Not picking on you, Thom... just pointing out that on the day of the release, 99.9% of everything was broken, missing, or only partially functional. As a user, there was nothing constructive to offer especially since we found in the pretesting was flat out ignored. I don't blame Steve for anything except being way to understanding of the plane crash that RedGate provided in this release.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
July 2, 2019 at 5:00 am
There is an old term "above the fold" - what you can see at the first page of a newspaper without unfolding it.
The topics, photos, headlines placed above the fold - it's what gets a customer interested, it's what makes him/her to buy the paper.
On web sites "above the fold" is what you see without the need to scroll.
Can you see much on the newly updated website "above the fold"?
can you see anything informative at all?
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Code for TallyGenerator
July 2, 2019 at 11:33 am
Can we complain about some user questions or something? I think we've established that some folks don't like the new site layout, but that Steve has listened and done what he can to mollify.
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July 2, 2019 at 11:34 am
Sergiy, please. Mobile version "above the fold"? From deep within a topic in a forum? That's cherry-picking.
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July 2, 2019 at 1:44 pm
Here is another issue that needs to be addressed(see attached screen shot). In Jeff's response it makes it look like 'below86 wrote:' but what it shown is what 'Thom A' wrote. I know that is shows above that 'Thom A' wrote but it isn't obvious to whom the quote belongs to. Now maybe its the site of maybe it was that Jeff modified the quote. I'm assuming Jeff modified, which gets me to my point that we need to have the preview option available again. I'm sure it would have helped Jeff modify the quote. And Jeff if you didn't modify it sorry for assuming you did.
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we travel not to escape life but for life not to escape us
Don't fear failure, fear regret.
July 2, 2019 at 1:58 pm
Here is another issue that needs to be addressed(see attached screen shot). In Jeff's response it makes it look like 'below86 wrote:' but what it shown is what 'Thom A' wrote. I know that is shows above that 'Thom A' wrote but it isn't obvious to whom the quote belongs to. Now maybe its the site of maybe it was that Jeff modified the quote. I'm assuming Jeff modified, which gets me to my point that we need to have the preview option available again. I'm sure it would have helped Jeff modify the quote. And Jeff if you didn't modify it sorry for assuming you did.
That isn't the forum's fault, that's because Jeff editted the Quote markup incorrectly. When he quoted you and myself, he left the original tag there, quoting the ID for your post and not mine.
I will admit that the loss of line breaks does make editting the quotes a little difficult mind; but the quote name is correct for the markup in Jeff's post. If you have a SELECT statement and you'd used the wrong ID in the WHERE, you wouldn't expect SQL Server to know which ID you really meant and return the row you wanted rather than the row you'd actually told it to; the same applies here (that is actually literally what is happening). The value returned was correct for the Post ID provided.
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
July 2, 2019 at 2:35 pm
I've submitted an issue to try and get quoting either only quoting the post itself (no sub quotes) or adding line breaks in. I think this is a cumbersome item.
July 2, 2019 at 3:55 pm
I've submitted an issue to try and get quoting either only quoting the post itself (no sub quotes) or adding line breaks in. I think this is a cumbersome item.
So.. adding back the preview isn't an option?
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we travel not to escape life but for life not to escape us
Don't fear failure, fear regret.
July 2, 2019 at 4:02 pm
Issue in backlog already. Below search and a few other things.
July 2, 2019 at 4:03 pm
I hate to duplicate all GH issues here, but I can perhaps add a list to the status update of the front end items that might let you know what's still planned work.
July 2, 2019 at 4:10 pm
I hate to duplicate all GH issues here, but I can perhaps add a list to the status update of the front end items that might let you know what's still planned work.
A one off more comprehensive post like you do with the status updates would be nice. Even if it's a just a "this is what the full state of play is"; it doesn't need to be updated but it'll surely at least let us know what is, isn't and won't be worked on (although i'm sure the last could raise some complaints :/ ).
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
July 2, 2019 at 4:28 pm
Status update has a list now - https://www.sqlservercentral.com/forums/topic/status-update-2-jul-2019
July 2, 2019 at 5:05 pm
Can we complain about some user questions or something? I think we've established that some folks don't like the new site layout, but that Steve has listened and done what he can to mollify.
Actually, most of the complaints I've seen have been about loss of features, not format. It's silly to claim that inability to do something is about layout - and I get the impression that Steve doesn't make that claim, although he doe point out that some of the argument is about format. (Much inferior format, in my view, but the formats I would like whould probably be much inferior according to some, so my real concern is about features (or rather, about their abesence).
Tom
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