September 4, 2018 at 5:09 pm
Thom A - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:50 AMIt frustrates me so much that it seems people are STILL being taught about implicit joins, and aren't being taught about parametrising dynamic SQL and just being shown that SET @sql = 'SELECT * FROM ' + @TableName is "OK". :crazy:
Whoever is saying that is OK should be taken out and shot. But it could be worse - I've had to kill off a stored procedure with @action, @source, and @condition as parameters
that built @sql = @action + ' FROM ' + @source + ' WHERE ' + @condition +';' and executed that string; this after I had explained the problem of injection to developers and told them that they would no longer be allowed to build sql strings in C++ OR JScript, they would have to call stored procedures. I reckon that would have deserved taking out and hanging by the ankles until dead, but couldn't apply that rule because (a) it would be illegal and (b) we'd already got rid of enough incompetents (the ones who thought all code should run with SA privilege whether it needed it or not and claimed that their app code could no possibly be made to work if it had to use either a password to connect or an authorised windows login) to have insufficient developers left.
Tom
September 5, 2018 at 6:16 am
Is it just me or have the Microsoft newsletters (Redmond magazine and MCPMag) become spam the past year?
I swear I get 7 or 8 of each daily. I originally signed up to make use of them in my work, but at the rate I get them, I'm about to unsubscribe and tell my email system they're junk mail.
September 5, 2018 at 7:12 am
For heaven's sake Tom. As I said there are of course are exceptions. But have you looked around any of the sql forums in the last decade? The utter garbage assignments people come in with lend plenty of credence to my rant, as you call it. You have listed some of the top professors at some of the top schools. Those are exactly the types of exceptions I was referring to. Those are clearly not the people I was talking about. I was talking about the people at the small universities like DeVry, Phoenix, Hyderabad etc where we see so many people coming in with utterly contrived problems and a required path to a solution. I wasn't lucky or smart enough to have attended a high end school like you clearly did. I went to one of these podunk U schools and witnessed first hand just how truly terrible the degree pumping schools really are. And what I witnessed in school was "professors" who largely were incompetent, often times learning the subject while teaching the class. I meant no disrespect to any of the truly talented individuals who are professors in the field, I meant disrespect to the large number of incompetent ones in schools with far less reputation than any of the ones you mentioned.
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Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
September 5, 2018 at 8:30 am
Sean Lange - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 7:12 AMFor heaven's sake Tom. As I said there are of course are exceptions. But have you looked around any of the sql forums in the last decade? The utter garbage assignments people come in with lend plenty of credence to my rant, as you call it. You have listed some of the top professors at some of the top schools. Those are exactly the types of exceptions I was referring to. Those are clearly not the people I was talking about. I was talking about the people at the small universities like DeVry, Phoenix, Hyderabad etc where we see so many people coming in with utterly contrived problems and a required path to a solution. I wasn't lucky or smart enough to have attended a high end school like you clearly did. I went to one of these podunk U schools and witnessed first hand just how truly terrible the degree pumping schools really are. And what I witnessed in school was "professors" who largely were incompetent, often times learning the subject while teaching the class. I meant no disrespect to any of the truly talented individuals who are professors in the field, I meant disrespect to the large number of incompetent ones in schools with far less reputation than any of the ones you mentioned.
I've seen good development courses before, but never a good one for databases. To be fair, I didn't go to a high-end school either. I did get to hear about a database administration class as one of our developers went through it on the way to his degree. Once a week, he'd come in and share what they covered. My original statement about never hearing of a good database course stands. He said he learned far more from me in an hour than he did in his whole class. In the end, he got his degree and got another job. The education system is what it is.
September 5, 2018 at 8:38 am
Ed Wagner - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:30 AMI've seen good development courses before, but never a good one for databases. To be fair, I didn't go to a high-end school either. I did get to hear about a database administration class as one of our developers went through it on the way to his degree. Once a week, he'd come in and share what they covered. My original statement about never hearing of a good database course stands. He said he learned far more from me in an hour than he did in his whole class. In the end, he got his degree and got another job. The education system is what it is.
Yes in my school we had some decent programming classes but the database classes were a joke. I didn't know squat about databases and could see how clearly inadequate they were. After I got my degree I felt like databases were the biggest void in my knowledge and I put a lot of effort into understanding them. I guess that is largely why I am where I am today. 🙂
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Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
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Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
September 5, 2018 at 10:28 am
Sean Lange - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:38 AMYes in my school we had some decent programming classes but the database classes were a joke. I didn't know squat about databases and could see how clearly inadequate they were. After I got my degree I felt like databases were the biggest void in my knowledge and I put a lot of effort into understanding them. I guess that is largely why I am where I am today. 🙂
When I was in high school, I got plenty of database training. I learned how to code in Lotus 1.2.3. @=) Talk about high end training.
YIKES. I think I just told everyone how old I am.
September 5, 2018 at 10:50 am
Brandie Tarvin - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 10:28 AMSean Lange - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:38 AMYes in my school we had some decent programming classes but the database classes were a joke. I didn't know squat about databases and could see how clearly inadequate they were. After I got my degree I felt like databases were the biggest void in my knowledge and I put a lot of effort into understanding them. I guess that is largely why I am where I am today. 🙂
When I was in high school, I got plenty of database training. I learned how to code in Lotus 1.2.3. @=) Talk about high end training.
YIKES. I think I just told everyone how old I am.
LOL. I wrote a high school english paper using Lotus because I was able to control the page formatting far better than wordstar. My teacher failed my paper because I did it on the computer and she was convinced the computer wrote it for me. I think she also wasn't a fan of the dot matrix tractor feed paper while the other student typed them on a typewriter. My father, the teacher, myself and the principal all had a meeting to discuss this with the teacher finally being forced to grade my paper. Did you know that a lot of those old Lotus keyboard shortcuts work in Excel to this day? They are undocumented but work great. Things like adding a column I still say "slash insert column" while clicking /ic. Works for rows also. There are many other of those old Lotus keyboard shortcuts that I still use and in my head say the verbose version. hahahahaha
_______________________________________________________________
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Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
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Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
September 5, 2018 at 10:52 am
Brandie Tarvin - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 10:28 AMWhen I was in high school, I got plenty of database training. I learned how to code in Lotus 1.2.3. @=) Talk about high end training.YIKES. I think I just told everyone how old I am.
The good thing about 1-2-3 in the really old versions was the thick manual with examples of all the functions. I miss that kind of thing these days.
September 5, 2018 at 11:01 am
Brandie Tarvin - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 10:28 AMSean Lange - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:38 AMYes in my school we had some decent programming classes but the database classes were a joke. I didn't know squat about databases and could see how clearly inadequate they were. After I got my degree I felt like databases were the biggest void in my knowledge and I put a lot of effort into understanding them. I guess that is largely why I am where I am today. 🙂
When I was in high school, I got plenty of database training. I learned how to code in Lotus 1.2.3. @=) Talk about high end training.
YIKES. I think I just told everyone how old I am.
Nah... we knew. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
September 5, 2018 at 11:39 am
I think that my degree in Linguistics actually helped prepare me more for working with databases than my degree in Mathematics did, mostly because it helped me think in a way that more directly transferred to thinking in columns rather than rows. Semantics in particular is based on set theory, but even phonology has a more set-based approach than an iterative approach.
Drew
J. Drew Allen
Business Intelligence Analyst
Philadelphia, PA
September 5, 2018 at 11:55 am
Sean Lange - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 10:50 AMLOL. I wrote a high school english paper using Lotus because I was able to control the page formatting far better than wordstar. My teacher failed my paper because I did it on the computer and she was convinced the computer wrote it for me. I think she also wasn't a fan of the dot matrix tractor feed paper while the other student typed them on a typewriter. My father, the teacher, myself and the principal all had a meeting to discuss this with the teacher finally being forced to grade my paper. Did you know that a lot of those old Lotus keyboard shortcuts work in Excel to this day? They are undocumented but work great. Things like adding a column I still say "slash insert column" while clicking /ic. Works for rows also. There are many other of those old Lotus keyboard shortcuts that I still use and in my head say the verbose version. hahahahaha
This is gold, pure gold. I frequently have to insert columns/rows and hate that I have to move off the keyboard to do it. You've made my day in a very real way.
Chad
September 5, 2018 at 12:28 pm
Chad Crawford - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 11:55 AMSean Lange - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 10:50 AMLOL. I wrote a high school english paper using Lotus because I was able to control the page formatting far better than wordstar. My teacher failed my paper because I did it on the computer and she was convinced the computer wrote it for me. I think she also wasn't a fan of the dot matrix tractor feed paper while the other student typed them on a typewriter. My father, the teacher, myself and the principal all had a meeting to discuss this with the teacher finally being forced to grade my paper. Did you know that a lot of those old Lotus keyboard shortcuts work in Excel to this day? They are undocumented but work great. Things like adding a column I still say "slash insert column" while clicking /ic. Works for rows also. There are many other of those old Lotus keyboard shortcuts that I still use and in my head say the verbose version. hahahahaha
This is gold, pure gold. I frequently have to insert columns/rows and hate that I have to move off the keyboard to do it. You've made my day in a very real way.
Chad
Awesome glad my being stuck in the "old ways" can help somebody else. There are others that I use occasionally but can't think of them off the top of my head. I still say the commands in my head like I did to learn them 30+ years ago. 😉
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
September 5, 2018 at 1:04 pm
Sean Lange - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:38 AMYes in my school we had some decent programming classes but the database classes were a joke. I didn't know squat about databases and could see how clearly inadequate they were. After I got my degree I felt like databases were the biggest void in my knowledge and I put a lot of effort into understanding them. I guess that is largely why I am where I am today. 🙂
I guess I was lucky that while the database classes I had weren't that great, I understood them fairly easily. I was actually reteaching a bunch of the topics to a couple of the other students in my class in the evening... fun.
September 5, 2018 at 1:20 pm
Chris Harshman - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 1:04 PMI guess I was lucky that while the database classes I had weren't that great, I understood them fairly easily. I was actually reteaching a bunch of the topics to a couple of the other students in my class in the evening... fun.
The database class I had was very heavy on theory. Codd's rules, sets, the history of relational databases. The only real hands on was the final project, which was simply "Design a database to solve an actual problem for the real world". It was a group project, we did a database that handled everything for a fairly large kids hockey league.
The RDMS was Access. The rest of the folks wanted used the interface, I used VI editor and copied and pasted all the code into Access.
Michael L John
If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
To properly post on a forum:
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September 5, 2018 at 1:30 pm
Michael L John - Wednesday, September 5, 2018 1:20 PMI used VI editor and copied and pasted all the code into Access.
And the number of the beast is VI, VI, VI. -- author unknown, seen in Usenet:\\alt.religion.emacs.
Drew
J. Drew Allen
Business Intelligence Analyst
Philadelphia, PA
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