September 4, 2018 at 8:28 am
jonathan.crawford - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:13 AMSean Lange - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 7:47 AMBecause people are becoming more and more entitled and lazy at a shockingly fast rate. The universities keep handing out degrees in technical fields to people who are woefully inadequate. I find this to be a two factor problem. First is the general "gimme gimme" mentality that society is moving towards with alarming speed. The second is that the professors are the ones who couldn't make it in the field. Sure there are exceptions with the rare person who just really enjoys teaching but most developer types would prefer the salary that comes with the job. Those who can't make it end up taking a professorship and do awesome things like teach people to use cursors for updates and all sorts of terrible things.
I'll just say that my online degree included some SQL classes, which were woefully inadequate. If we'd gotten to the level of cursors I'd have been much happier with them. As it was, I just wanted to check them off the list, so didn't complain. So, no, I don't think the teachers are instructing people on how to use cursors, they learn those bad habits from google.
I think a lot of people confuse a degree, particularly in computer areas, with job training and they are not the same thing. Would you expect some with an engineering degree to be able to perform maintenance on your car? Then why do you expect some with say a CS degree to be able to build your web page or maintain your SQL server in a real world situation?
September 4, 2018 at 8:32 am
Whee HAW!
We survived! The big migration from system A to system B is completed and we ran a month end on the new system with few issues. Everything mostly went swimmingly with very few of the reported problems being actual problems!
Stuff like "My permissions have vanished from system A. Please restore them." got lots of laughs the day after the migration. The users knew we were migrating but apparently forgot that they shouldn't be touching the old system. Which should have all their permissions set as read-only but somehow some windows hotkeys still worked for editing, so I had to set the entire database as read only so they couldn't alter data on the source system post-migration.
Yeah, I'm kinda rambling, but that's how it goes.
Next order of business, I am going to study for the CISSP. I've already determined my job covers 2 of the 10 domains (asset security and engineering security), so a studying I shall go.
Did I miss anything fun while I was gone? (Luis, I saw your posts. I'll check around at Allstate internally. In the meantime, the public jobs link is https://www.allstate.com/careers.aspx. IT people are allowed to work remote. Not sure about the visa issue, but I don't think it'd be a problem considering how many non-U.S. citizens we have working for us.)
September 4, 2018 at 8:33 am
Well, at least you guys didn't burn the place down over the weekend...
:hehe:
Luis, I'm really sorry I never got in touch with you, but I was so overwhelmed by the con, I just never got combobulated enough to remember to message you...
September 4, 2018 at 8:42 am
Brandie Tarvin - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:32 AMWhee HAW!We survived! The big migration from system A to system B is completed and we ran a month end on the new system with few issues. Everything mostly went swimmingly with very few of the reported problems being actual problems!
Stuff like "My permissions have vanished from system A. Please restore them." got lots of laughs the day after the migration. The users knew we were migrating but apparently forgot that they shouldn't be touching the old system. Which should have all their permissions set as read-only but somehow some windows hotkeys still worked for editing, so I had to set the entire database as read only so they couldn't alter data on the source system post-migration.
Yeah, I'm kinda rambling, but that's how it goes.
Next order of business, I am going to study for the CISSP. I've already determined my job covers 2 of the 10 domains (asset security and engineering security), so a studying I shall go.
Did I miss anything fun while I was gone? (Luis, I saw your posts. I'll check around at Allstate internally. In the meantime, the public jobs link is https://www.allstate.com/careers.aspx. IT people are allowed to work remote. Not sure about the visa issue, but I don't think it'd be a problem considering how many non-U.S. citizens we have working for us.)
WOOHOO!!!! Congrats!!! Definitely a good feeling to finish a long project and have it actually working.
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Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
September 4, 2018 at 8:50 am
Sean Lange - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 7:47 AMBecause people are becoming more and more entitled and lazy at a shockingly fast rate. The universities keep handing out degrees in technical fields to people who are woefully inadequate. I find this to be a two factor problem. First is the general "gimme gimme" mentality that society is moving towards with alarming speed. The second is that the professors are the ones who couldn't make it in the field. Sure there are exceptions with the rare person who just really enjoys teaching but most developer types would prefer the salary that comes with the job. Those who can't make it end up taking a professorship and do awesome things like teach people to use cursors for updates and all sorts of terrible things.
It frustrates me so much that it seems people are STILL being taught about implicit joins, and aren't being taught about parametrising dynamic SQL and just being shown that SET @sql = 'SELECT * FROM ' + @TableName is "OK". :crazy:
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
September 4, 2018 at 9:03 am
Thom A - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:50 AMIt frustrates me so much that it seems people are STILL being taught about implicit joins, and aren't being taught about parametrising dynamic SQL and just being shown that SET @sql = 'SELECT * FROM ' + @TableName is "OK". :crazy:
Hey, I've actually had to use code like that in a few instances where nothing but dynamic SQL will work for my needs. I see nothing wrong with it as long as the person writing the code knows the consequences and the needs behind it, and as long as they've looked for other solutions first.
September 4, 2018 at 9:10 am
Thom A - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:50 AMIt frustrates me so much that it seems people are STILL being taught about implicit joins, and aren't being taught about parametrising dynamic SQL and just being shown that SET @sql = 'SELECT * FROM ' + @TableName is "OK". :crazy:
An implicit join is just a filtered cartesian join 😀
September 4, 2018 at 9:10 am
Brandie Tarvin - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 9:03 AMHey, I've actually had to use code like that in a few instances where nothing but dynamic SQL will work for my needs. I see nothing wrong with it as long as the person writing the code knows the consequences and the needs behind it, and as long as they've looked for other solutions first.
I've nothing wrong with Dynamic SQL either, i use it a lot in truth, it's just the lack of parametrisation and injection consideration that concerns me. Simple things like using QUOTENAME, or checking that the object exists within a system table make something that could be potentially harmful far safer.
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
September 4, 2018 at 9:16 am
Thom A - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 9:10 AMI've nothing wrong with Dynamic SQL either, i use it a lot in truth, it's just the lack of parametrisation and injection consideration that concerns me. Simple things like using QUOTENAME, or checking that the object exists within a system table make something that could be potentially harmful far safer.
A good point.
In my case, I mostly use it for database maintenance procs that we run as needed or have set up as SQL jobs. Only someone with high level access to the SQL instance would be able to use our stuff for harmful gain and that is a very small pool of people. I can't recall one instance where I used dynamic SQL for something facing users. I've never had the need for it.
September 4, 2018 at 9:18 am
ZZartin - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 9:10 AMThom A - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:50 AMIt frustrates me so much that it seems people are STILL being taught about implicit joins, and aren't being taught about parametrising dynamic SQL and just being shown that SET @sql = 'SELECT * FROM ' + @TableName is "OK". :crazy:An implicit join is just a filtered cartesian join 😀
My "favorite" join is when other people write an OUTER JOIN then put a statement in the WHERE clause that turns it into an INNER JOIN. Then they come to me wondering why their result set is missing records.
September 4, 2018 at 9:32 am
Brandie Tarvin - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 9:18 AMMy "favorite" join is when other people write an OUTER JOIN then put a statement in the WHERE clause that turns it into an INNER JOIN. Then they come to me wondering why their result set is missing records.
Ahh, you mean the elusive INNER OUTER JOIN... or the "innie outtie". :hehe:
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
September 4, 2018 at 9:36 am
ZZartin - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:28 AMI think a lot of people confuse a degree, particularly in computer areas, with job training and they are not the same thing. Would you expect some with an engineering degree to be able to perform maintenance on your car? Then why do you expect some with say a CS degree to be able to build your web page or maintain your SQL server in a real world situation?
Because we did not get anywhere past a simple SELECT and updating a couple of rows in a table. in about three classes. And I'm pretty sure from the questions I got from classmates that they didn't understand why they were doing what they were doing, or how it could possibly be useful
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September 4, 2018 at 9:56 am
jonathan.crawford - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 9:36 AMZZartin - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:28 AMI think a lot of people confuse a degree, particularly in computer areas, with job training and they are not the same thing. Would you expect some with an engineering degree to be able to perform maintenance on your car? Then why do you expect some with say a CS degree to be able to build your web page or maintain your SQL server in a real world situation?Because we did not get anywhere past a simple SELECT and updating a couple of rows in a table. in about three classes. And I'm pretty sure from the questions I got from classmates that they didn't understand why they were doing what they were doing, or how it could possibly be useful
That actually is exactly what ZZartin means. How can you reasonably expect to go from barely being able to write a select statement and not understanding why an update is important to being somebody in charge of databases. That is like hiring somebody to be a surgeon and expecting them to be qualified when they only completed a biology class dissecting a frog. The issue is that the schools set these people up for failure by convincing them they are ready for the real world. And most businesses push this even further by giving jobs to unqualified people.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
September 4, 2018 at 4:35 pm
Sean Lange - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 7:47 AMdrew.allen - Friday, August 31, 2018 2:48 PMWhy do people have such trouble understanding the relationship between sample data and expected results. The expected results should have more than a tenuous relationship to the sample data. Let me just pull some figures out of thin air.Drew
Because people are becoming more and more entitled and lazy at a shockingly fast rate. The universities keep handing out degrees in technical fields to people who are woefully inadequate. I find this to be a two factor problem. First is the general "gimme gimme" mentality that society is moving towards with alarming speed. The second is that the professors are the ones who couldn't make it in the field. Sure there are exceptions with the rare person who just really enjoys teaching but most developer types would prefer the salary that comes with the job. Those who can't make it end up taking a professorship and do awesome things like teach people to use cursors for updates and all sorts of terrible things.
That seems to me to be complete and utter claptrap. Of course there are some Universities who have incompetent teachers, but there are also industrial research shops and industrial development shops who are staffed by incompetents.
I guess you think that the Turing award isn't a sign competence. Alan Turing (after whom the award was named) was a Professor at Mancester University, so according to you he must be someone who couldn't make it in the field - but he's the guy who (a) invented modern computing theory , (b) used it to design the machines used to crack the Nazi's engigma code, (c) used it to design the Colossus computer and (d) was the leading light light in the development of the Mark 1 (the second stored program computer built; Maurice wilkes designed an built the first - the contemporary American attempt was later than Turing's Mark 1 and anyay didn't actually manage to handle stored programs). But your anti-professor rant tells us that the man who created modern computing and computer science was a waste of space.
Then we could look at some of the winners of the Turing award:
Alan Perlis - professor at Perdue, CMU and Yale
Maurice Wilkes - professor at Cambridge (UK)
Richard Hamming - professor at the Naval Postgrad School (Monterey)
Marvin Minsky - MIT, co-founder of the MIT AI Lab
Adi Shamir - Professor at ENS Paris and at the Weizmann Institute
Juris Hartmanis - Professor at Cornell
Robin Milner - Professor at Edinburgh and at Cambridge (UK)
Tony Hoare - Professor at Queen's Belfast and at Oxford
Robert Floyd - Professor at CMU and at Stanford
Ivan Sutherland - Profesor at Utah and at Caltech
Tim Berners-Lee - Professor at Oxford and at MIT
Edmund Clarke - Professor at CMU
That's a dozen (plus 1 if we count Turing himself) of your people who according to you couldn't make it in the field, but who between them have done more to advance computer science and hardware and software than any two dozen people who don't fit into your "can't make it" categrory. Four of them are people I've had personal contact with so that I have first hand experience of their being competent people , far from being people who couldn't make it in the field. I don't claim that none of them ever made mistakes, but I know that it is utter nonsence to claim that people like them went into academia because they couldn't make it in the field.
Tom
September 4, 2018 at 5:01 pm
TomThomson - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 4:35 PMThat seems to me to be complete and utter claptrap. Of course there are some Universities who have incompetent teachers, but there are also industrial research shops and industrial development shops who are staffed by incompetents.I guess you think that the Turing award isn't a sign competence. Alan Turing (after whom the award was named) was a Professor at Mancester University, so according to you he must be someone who couldn't make it in the field - but he's the guy who (a) invented modern computing theory , (b) used it to design the machines used to crack the Nazi's engigma code, (c) used it to design the Colossus computer and (d) was the leading light light in the development of the Mark 1 (the second stored program computer built; Maurice wilkes designed an built the first - the contemporary American attempt was later than Turing's Mark 1 and anyay didn't actually manage to handle stored programs). But your anti-professor rant tells us that the man who created modern computing and computer science was a waste of space.
Then we could look at some of the winners of the Turing award:
Alan Perlis - professor at Perdue, CMU and Yale
Maurice Wilkes - professor at Cambridge (UK)
Richard Hamming - professor at the Naval Postgrad School (Monterey)
Marvin Minsky - MIT, co-founder of the MIT AI Lab
Adi Shamir - Professor at ENS Paris and at the Weizmann Institute
Juris Hartmanis - Professor at Cornell
Robin Milner - Professor at Edinburgh and at Cambridge (UK)
Tony Hoare - Professor at Queen's Belfast and at Oxford
Robert Floyd - Professor at CMU and at Stanford
Ivan Sutherland - Profesor at Utah and at Caltech
Tim Berners-Lee - Professor at Oxford and at MIT
Edmund Clarke - Professor at CMUThat's a dozen (plus 1 if we count Turing himself) of your people who according to you couldn't make it in the field, but who between them have done more to advance computer science and hardware and software than any two dozen people who don't fit into your "can't make it" categrory. Four of them are people I've had personal contact with so that I have first hand experience of their being competent people , far from being people who couldn't make it in the field. I don't claim that none of them ever made mistakes, but I know that it is utter nonsence to claim that people like them went into academia because they couldn't make it in the field.
And of course you brush over the fact that Sean did say that there are exceptions. And yes, there are those that would rather blow their own horn, or don't really teach their students the things they really need to know when they get out into the real world. There are things that work great in the world of academia and fail miserably in the real world.
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