Are the posted questions getting worse?

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Are the posted questions getting worse?

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Sean Lange SSC Guru Points: 286590 More actions · Answer 1

Thom A - Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:45 AM
Ed Wagner - Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:33 AM
Jeff Moden - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 4:55 PM
RandomStream - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 12:38 PM
Up to this point, you gurus are complaining 'Are the posted questions getting worse?'?
I suggest that we add Downvote button for both questions and answers, like on AskQuora.
The trouble with down-vote or other types of rating buttons (even accepted answer buttons) is that people use them without explaining why something was marked either high or low. I've seen some incredibly stupid answers (for example) that have 20 up-votes and no explanation. Likewise, I've seen some incredibly good answers that have been down-voted (obviously at this point, on other forums), again, with no explanation.
Personally, I don't like the up-vote/down-vote. There are some posts that are just excellent, but there is obvious abuse and there always will be with any online voting system.
If SSC did want to do a vote up/down function as well, the bot issues need to be fixed first. I'm confident in saying that the majority of "points" that the more regular users get are from likes on their psots, which code be wrong ages ago. Have a look, for example, at just a snippet of my activities on 2017014:
Some of those post I made 2/3 years ago and have 50 odd likes (as does most of the other posts in the topic). If down voting was an option as well, things would probably go "crazy".

Yeah once we went to the new forum points are even less valid than they were before. At least prior to that it was an indication of what the user contributed on the site. Now it is just nuts. I have often wondered if there are bots liking posts because so many posts from long ago get liked. I don't remember what my points total was prior to the new forum software but it has surely double, tripled or even more since then.

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Thomas Rushton SSC-Insane Points: 22649 More actions · Answer 2

Thom A - Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:45 AM
If SSC did want to do a vote up/down function as well, the bot issues need to be fixed first. I'm confident in saying that the majority of "points" that the more regular users get are from likes on their psots, which code be wrong ages ago. Have a look, for example, at just a snippet of my activities on 2017014:
Some of those post I made 2/3 years ago and have 50 odd likes (as does most of the other posts in the topic). If down voting was an option as well, things would probably go "crazy".

Sorry. I'll stop liking your stuff.

No, not really.

Thomas Rushton
blog: https://thelonedba.wordpress.com

Thomas Rushton SSC-Insane Points: 22649 More actions · Answer 3

ZZartin - Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:01 AM
I'm not a fan of visible vote counts on individual posts or on users, what I am a huge fan of is the ability for users to bury posts with enough down votes. For example certain users who consistently might post outdated irrelevant information with no value to the original question might be less visible 😀

I don't know who you mean... *cough* 😀

Thomas Rushton
blog: https://thelonedba.wordpress.com

Luis Cazares SSC Guru Points: 183706 More actions · Answer 4

Sean Lange - Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:16 AM
Yeah once we went to the new forum points are even less valid than they were before. At least prior to that it was an indication of what the user contributed on the site. Now it is just nuts. I have often wondered if there are bots liking posts because so many posts from long ago get liked. I don't remember what my points total was prior to the new forum software but it has surely double, tripled or even more since then.

I remember that only Gail was over 40K points, so my guess is that the total went up about 10 times.

Luis C.
General Disclaimer:
Are you seriously taking the advice and code from someone from the internet without testing it? Do you at least understand it? Or can it easily kill your server?

How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help: Option 1 / Option 2

Thom A SSC Guru Points: 99130 More actions · Answer 5

ThomasRushton - Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:33 AM
Sorry. I'll stop liking your stuff.
No, not really.

But my precious points!!!

Thom~

Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk

Gail Shaw SSC Guru Points: 1004504 More actions · Answer 6

Luis Cazares - Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:06 AM
Sean Lange - Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:16 AM
Yeah once we went to the new forum points are even less valid than they were before. At least prior to that it was an indication of what the user contributed on the site. Now it is just nuts. I have often wondered if there are bots liking posts because so many posts from long ago get liked. I don't remember what my points total was prior to the new forum software but it has surely double, tripled or even more since then.
I remember that only Gail was over 40K points, so my guess is that the total went up about 10 times.

Bit more than that.

Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability

We walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass

Thom A SSC Guru Points: 99130 More actions · Answer 7

I have to ask; Is there a point when an MVP can come to the conclusion where it's a good idea to use the [master] database for user objects, and to prefix those objects with "sp_" (so it's looks like an MS object); or am I right in thinking that this is just a plain bad idea?

Thom~

Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk

Luis Cazares SSC Guru Points: 183706 More actions · Answer 8

Thom A - Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:15 AM
I have to ask; Is there a point when an MVP can come to the conclusion where it's a good idea to use the [master] database for user objects, and to prefix those objects with "sp_" (so it's looks like an MS object); or am I right in thinking that this is just a plain bad idea?

I'd say that it depends. Will it act as a system object? If it does, it might make sense to do it. But that's just my opinion.

EDIT: I just saw the thread and that's a bad idea. Creating user-system objects should be an exception and not a general solution as it was mentioned on there.

Luis C.
General Disclaimer:
Are you seriously taking the advice and code from someone from the internet without testing it? Do you at least understand it? Or can it easily kill your server?

How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help: Option 1 / Option 2

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736212 More actions · Answer 9

Lynn Pettis - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 5:10 PM
Makes sense, you should have to provide an explanation of an up-vote or down-vote on a forum such as this. Of course, you would probably get something like this: "I like this answer."

Actually, what I've wanted to do is have voting on a couple axis (good/poor tech solution, performs well/poorly, insteresting/boring, pro/rude, etc). HAven't gotten a good UI or dev resources, but I think it's helpful to be able to vote a few ways, not just up/down.

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736212 More actions · Answer 10

Thom A - Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:15 AM
I have to ask; Is there a point when an MVP can come to the conclusion where it's a good idea to use the [master] database for user objects, and to prefix those objects with "sp_" (so it's looks like an MS object); or am I right in thinking that this is just a plain bad idea?

I'd say no, mostly because of DR. Trying to ensure these are always in a system and counting on them is bad. If you do this, then I'd say you never, ever, ever install SQL Server manually. Always with a script that both runs setup for you and then includes these items (with proper SQL per version) in the instance. Even in emergency DR situations.

Hugo Kornelis SSC Guru Points: 64790 More actions · Answer 11

Thom A - Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:15 AM
I have to ask; Is there a point when an MVP can come to the conclusion where it's a good idea to use the [master] database for user objects, and to prefix those objects with "sp_" (so it's looks like an MS object); or am I right in thinking that this is just a plain bad idea?

Yes, and you don't even have to be an MVP for it. But you need one more step: apart from storing it in master and prefixing it sp_, You'll also have to mark it a system object (using undocumented stored procedure sp_ms_marksystemobject).

The benefit you get from this, is that you can now invoke it from within every user database by name only, and it will excute within the context of that user database and not within the context of master. This can be beneficial for certain tasks.
But it does come at a price. If you now deploy sp_myperfectprocedure, and Microsoft decides to introduce a new system stored procedure sp_myperfectprocedure in the next CU, then that procedure will replace yours when you upgrade and any code using it might suddenly start doing very ... interesting things. Documenting which "fake" system procedures you make and checking that list before every upgrade helps mitigate this risk. Choosing unlikely names helps also.

One example where I used this: A customer had a lot of legacy code and little documentation. Before changing anything I had to do impact analysis, which started by finding references to an object (be it a table, column, procedure, function, view, or anything else). These references could either be in stored procedures (always in the current database), or in SQL Agent jobs. So I had created a stored procedure that searched sys.all_sql_modules in the current database. Instead of creating copies in all databases, I created a single copy in master, called it sp_metasearch, and marked it as system object. From then on, I could simply type "sp_metasearch 'foobar';" and hit execute to find all coide modules that contain the string "foobar" somewhere in their defintion. That was very effective for me.

Hugo Kornelis, SQL Server/Data Platform MVP (2006-2016)
Visit my SQL Server blog: https://sqlserverfast.com/blog/
SQL Server Execution Plan Reference: https://sqlserverfast.com/epr/

ZZartin SSC-Dedicated Points: 30920 More actions · Answer 12

Hugo Kornelis - Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:38 AM
But it does come at a price. If you now deploy sp_myperfectprocedure, and Microsoft decides to introduce a new system stored procedure sp_myperfectprocedure in the next CU, then that procedure will replace yours when you upgrade and any code using it might suddenly start doing very ... interesting things. Documenting which "fake" system procedures you make and checking that list before every upgrade helps mitigate this risk. Choosing unlikely names helps also.

Well clearly the answer is use GUID's for every name, also makes versioning super easy if you can never overwrite anything.

Greg Edwards-268690 SSC-Insane Points: 20680 More actions · Answer 13

Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:33 AM
Thom A - Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:15 AM
I have to ask; Is there a point when an MVP can come to the conclusion where it's a good idea to use the [master] database for user objects, and to prefix those objects with "sp_" (so it's looks like an MS object); or am I right in thinking that this is just a plain bad idea?
I'd say no, mostly because of DR. Trying to ensure these are always in a system and counting on them is bad. If you do this, then I'd say you never, ever, ever install SQL Server manually. Always with a script that both runs setup for you and then includes these items (with proper SQL per version) in the instance. Even in emergency DR situations.

Our DR always started with install media from disc. This was a different group, and as Steve describes, everyone would need to be aware of a change in process.
As Hugo and others mention, there are likely a couple other things to consider.

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004340 More actions · Answer 14

RandomStream - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 5:10 PM
Jeff Moden - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 4:55 PM
RandomStream - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 12:38 PM
Up to this point, you gurus are complaining 'Are the posted questions getting worse?'?
I suggest that we add Downvote button for both questions and answers, like on AskQuora.
The trouble with down-vote or other types of rating buttons (even accepted answer buttons) is that people use them without explaining why something was marked either high or low. I've seen some incredibly stupid answers (for example) that have 20 up-votes and no explanation. Likewise, I've seen some incredibly good answers that have been down-voted (obviously at this point, on other forums), again, with no explanation.
Life goes on. After all, the purpose of this forum is to share knowledge, not to judge. Post-By-Agonizing-Post.

Heh.... sharing knowledge frequently requires first making a judgment. If I see a thread where there are only good answers, I 'judge' that I don't actually need to get involved. If I see a thread where there are some pretty bad answers, then I've judged them as bad and that might compel me to post. If someone argues that an rCTE that counts is still a good thing to use even after someone has proven 3 super fast methods and even a properly written WHILE loop can beat it both performance wise and resource usage wise and yet they continue to insist that their rCTE method is the way to go, then I do, in fact, have to judge them as stupid, arrogant, or, quite possibly, both. It can't be helped when such a fact is proven. 😉

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Chris Harshman SSC-Forever Points: 42192 More actions · Answer 15

LOL I was able to remove some doubt from a doubting Thomas today. He wanted to write a new scalar UDF, and I was able to easily show him the exact same logic written in an inline-TVF could run against a million record table in a second and a half versus seven seconds. He was also under the mistaken impression he would have to rewrite the logic to return a whole table worth of data instead of 1 row. Knowledge is fun!