July 10, 2017 at 5:30 am
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Let me ask you. If you had a preference, take some time at the front of a project to verify what type of information is good so that things work smoothly later on or to use that "up front" time on other things and then go back and forth fixing errors later on until things finally get to working, which would you prefer?
I really hate it when coworkers say "I don't have time to figure that out right now" but think I have time to be working errors back and forth with them (until we stumble across the solution) later on. Really really really hate it.
July 10, 2017 at 5:58 am
Brandie Tarvin - Monday, July 10, 2017 5:30 AMGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.Let me ask you. If you had a preference, take some time at the front of a project to verify what type of information is good so that things work smoothly later on or to use that "up front" time on other things and then go back and forth fixing errors later on until things finally get to working, which would you prefer?
I really hate it when coworkers say "I don't have time to figure that out right now" but think I have time to be working errors back and forth with them (until we stumble across the solution) later on. Really really really hate it.
They should take lessons from Grandmother... "Take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves". 😉
I'm always amazed that some people don't understand the value of actions based on forethought. Perhaps it's because some managers drive projects to meet a schedule rather than understanding the true cost of rework and doing it right the first time every time.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
July 10, 2017 at 7:00 am
Brandie Tarvin - Monday, July 10, 2017 5:30 AMGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.Let me ask you. If you had a preference, take some time at the front of a project to verify what type of information is good so that things work smoothly later on or to use that "up front" time on other things and then go back and forth fixing errors later on until things finally get to working, which would you prefer?
I really hate it when coworkers say "I don't have time to figure that out right now" but think I have time to be working errors back and forth with them (until we stumble across the solution) later on. Really really really hate it.
Stumble across solution vs. requirements planning.
Changing that type of culture usually requires support from above.
Direct your hate towards how to improve the process.
Rework is usually fixing your errors.
Enhancements are new or changed logic from the original spec. Which should move it back for approval to work on.
Doing something like this might be taken as slowing the process.
So being able to supply some proof of reduced time on both sides, along with reducing risk to the business, helps with justification.
Having worked both the Operations side of Business and the IT side, it always amazed me of what some people had time for and what they didn't.
Like the 5 minute process daily that when you looked at what they were doing was actually the better part of an hour.
And an hour or 2 to define it, a couple of hours of coding and testing put it in the Data warehouse.
Where it became a measurement in the cube across all of time.
So part of the issue becomes how to bring the hidden work to light without someone doing it feeling they will be obsolete.
Yes, I can feel your pain and frustration.
July 10, 2017 at 7:09 am
Ed Wagner - Thursday, July 6, 2017 9:23 AMChrisM@Work - Thursday, July 6, 2017 8:08 AMEd Wagner - Thursday, July 6, 2017 7:59 AMEirikur Eiriksson - Thursday, July 6, 2017 7:02 AMGrant Fritchey - Thursday, July 6, 2017 6:40 AMThom A - Thursday, July 6, 2017 6:07 AMGilaMonster - Thursday, July 6, 2017 5:55 AMDesNorton - Wednesday, July 5, 2017 11:13 PM@Grant FritcheyI believe that congratulations are in order, sir.
Or condolences, whiskey and a shoulder to cry on. 🙂
How about a monkey Shoulder?
Now we're talking!
Should go nice with Ed's pig shoulder
😎
(from the smoker :D)It turned out great. The shoulders had one of the best crusts I've ever developed, pulled easily and had great flavor. The pork loin had a nice, deep smoke ring and, because I smoked it to temperature, didn't dry out at all. My grand experiment was smoked macaroni and cheese and it got rave reviews. All in all, the many-hour vigil was well worth it.
A few weeks ago now I picked up the same smoker Neil Burton was raving about and since then I've had the chance to fire it up three or four times. Each time has been quite a learning experience, especially maintaining a low, steady temperature. Some of the results have been spectacular, but only the chicken so far. Whole legs soaked overnight in spices and maple syrup were particularly good smoked with oak logs, as was a large corn-fed chicken, spatchcocked.
I'd love to know how you do a whole pork shoulder, it sounds just awesome - but if the small-ish joint I tried is anything to go by, you can say goodbye to crispy crackling, which is highly prized over here.I'm more than happy to share my recipe. I have to get offline to go do some work on my house, but I'll get back online tonight.
I never made it to a computer last night, but I'm done.
I start with a whole boneless pork shoulder, patted dry. I first rub it with kosher salt. Other than flavor, this helps to bring water-soluble proteins to the surface of the meat.
I then coat it liberally with a rub (a mixture of spices and herbs) - you can make it yourself or buy one. I use a combination of salt, thyme, smoked paprika, chili pepper, black pepper and brown sugar. Depending on your taste, you can add cayenne and other flavors. I'm sure search engines will yield lots of rub recipes, but you'll learn over time what you and your family enjoys most.
For the fire, I like apple wood because it provides good flavor, but also because I have a couple of large, old apple trees in my front yard that supply wood. However, you can use apple, pear, hickory or just about any other smoking wood. I find that in my smoker, oak tends to burn hotter than I like, so I avoid it. The wood should be well-dried. I start the fire and let it go for 20 to 30 minutes to get up to temp. Plan on adding wood every couple of hours throughout the cooking process. I also use a dual-probe BBQ thermometer (https://www.amazon.com/Ivation-Long-Range-Wireless-Thermometer/dp/B00ANCXJR6) to monitor the temperature of the air inside the smoker. The controls on it could be better, but it works. There are others available.
I then set the shoulders right on the grate and let it go. My target temp for the air inside the smoker is 200 F to 210 F. I think 230 F is too hot. I want to smoke it low and slow for that great smoked flavor. I keep underlining the word air because I'm not monitoring the temperature of the meat. The meat will be cooked to temperature long before the smoking is done, but I smoke by time. I go for about 14 hours, but you can pull it after 12 hours if you're going to serve it a day or 2 later. The reason for the very long time is that you want to break down all that connective tissue in the shoulder. The long, low heat breaks down the collagen into gelatin. It lets you pull it apart with two forks and produces that great texture that's famous in good BBQ.
When it's done, take it off and let it rest, covered with aluminum foil, for an hour on the counter. If you're going to serve it another day, cover it well and put it in the fridge. To reheat it, add enough water to your roasting pan to come between 1/4 and 1/3 the way up the shoulder. Add the shoulder and bake at 300 F for a couple of hours. When done, don't throw away the water, which has been transformed into a smokey broth. To "pull" the pork, simple shred it using two forks. Depending on the crust (also called bark) you've developed on the exterior of the meat, you might need to cut it in half and pull it from the inside. Be sure to pull or cut up the crust and mix it in with the rest of the pulled pork. If you like, you can sprinkle some of the smokey broth over the pork and mix it in. If not, it's a serious flavor base for homemade BBQ sauce.
For shoulders, I go by time. For cuts like pork tenderloin, I go by temp (145 F) because they'll dry out if you go longer. Tenderloins can be reheated the same as the shoulder, but don't overcook them; I use that same probe thermometer in the center of the tenderloin.
To address the issue of sauce, for me, it's always optional. I have a bottle or two available and let each individual decide for themselves at dinner.
I know this is a long post with a lot of info and I hope it wasn't too long. The key points are to rub it well, smoke it low and slow, let it rest and pull it while it's hot. I know that 12 to 14 hours is a lot of time, but for me, it's worth it. I learned a lot by doing it the first time. Enjoy!
Ed, thanks loads for taking the time to write all of this down, it sounds absolutely amazing and I can't wait to try it! There might be a Saturday free in a couple of weeks which is enough time to source some fruit wood, I've only got oak logs and fruitwood chips at the mo. Everything else is in place. I'll let you know how it works out!
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July 10, 2017 at 7:22 am
Jeff Moden - Monday, July 10, 2017 5:58 AMThey should take lessons from Grandmother... "Take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves". 😉
I'm always amazed that some people don't understand the value of actions based on forethought. Perhaps it's because some managers drive projects to meet a schedule rather than understanding the true cost of rework and doing it right the first time every time.
And the schedule is not met if extended by rework.
It shouldn't be checked off until this is completed.
Rework should really occur in Dev and QA, not in a production schedule.
Understanding and acknowledging this is key to process improvement.
July 10, 2017 at 7:39 am
Greg Edwards-268690 - Monday, July 10, 2017 7:22 AMJeff Moden - Monday, July 10, 2017 5:58 AMThey should take lessons from Grandmother... "Take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves". 😉
I'm always amazed that some people don't understand the value of actions based on forethought. Perhaps it's because some managers drive projects to meet a schedule rather than understanding the true cost of rework and doing it right the first time every time.
And the schedule is not met if extended by rework.
It shouldn't be checked off until this is completed.
Rework should really occur in Dev and QA, not in a production schedule.
Understanding and acknowledging this is key to process improvement.
I constantly have business ask me if we can take some shortcuts to get stuff completed sooner. I always tell them I am happy to do that for them with one condition. I need to know up front when I can have the extra time to go back and fix it. My favorite example of this was with one of our VP's a few years ago. I told him the project would take about 3 weeks. He was not happy and wanted to know what I could do to make it happen in two weeks. I told him I would be happy to accomplish that but that I needed to know when I could get the time allocated to go back and fix it correctly. He asked how long that would take and I told him about 2 weeks. He thought about this and clarified that it would take me two weeks now and two more weeks in a month when things settled down. I confirmed that he understood me correctly. With a deep sigh he realized how absurd his request was and he said that three weeks would be fine, he just needed to make a couple of minor adjustments to some marketing stuff that was already planned. Nothing like planning marketing before a project has been figured out on the technical side. 😀
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July 10, 2017 at 7:48 am
*sigh* Yup, I know the feeling.
A client wants a SQL 2016 upgrade (from 2008 R2). I gave them a rough timeline, including analysing the environment (they don't fully know what they have), testing compatibility, testing for performance regressions, upgrading and testing SSIS packages & SSRS reports, preping new environment, setting up log shipping to allow for the very low downtime that they want and finally the upgrade.
They decided that the timeline's too long, they're going with a different vendor.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 10, 2017 at 7:57 am
Sean Lange - Monday, July 10, 2017 7:39 AMI constantly have business ask me if we can take some shortcuts to get stuff completed sooner. I always tell them I am happy to do that for them with one condition. I need to know up front when I can have the extra time to go back and fix it. My favorite example of this was with one of our VP's a few years ago. I told him the project would take about 3 weeks. He was not happy and wanted to know what I could do to make it happen in two weeks. I told him I would be happy to accomplish that but that I needed to know when I could get the time allocated to go back and fix it correctly. He asked how long that would take and I told him about 2 weeks. He thought about this and clarified that it would take me two weeks now and two more weeks in a month when things settled down. I confirmed that he understood me correctly. With a deep sigh he realized how absurd his request was and he said that three weeks would be fine, he just needed to make a couple of minor adjustments to some marketing stuff that was already planned. Nothing like planning marketing before a project has been figured out on the technical side. 😀
Another way to approach this might be the Agile/Scrum way:
July 10, 2017 at 8:01 am
Ed Wagner - Friday, July 7, 2017 6:40 AMEd Wagner - Thursday, July 6, 2017 9:23 AMChrisM@Work - Thursday, July 6, 2017 8:08 AMEd Wagner - Thursday, July 6, 2017 7:59 AMEirikur Eiriksson - Thursday, July 6, 2017 7:02 AMGrant Fritchey - Thursday, July 6, 2017 6:40 AMThom A - Thursday, July 6, 2017 6:07 AMGilaMonster - Thursday, July 6, 2017 5:55 AMDesNorton - Wednesday, July 5, 2017 11:13 PM@Grant FritcheyI believe that congratulations are in order, sir.
Or condolences, whiskey and a shoulder to cry on. 🙂
How about a monkey Shoulder?
Now we're talking!
Should go nice with Ed's pig shoulder
😎
(from the smoker :D)It turned out great. The shoulders had one of the best crusts I've ever developed, pulled easily and had great flavor. The pork loin had a nice, deep smoke ring and, because I smoked it to temperature, didn't dry out at all. My grand experiment was smoked macaroni and cheese and it got rave reviews. All in all, the many-hour vigil was well worth it.
A few weeks ago now I picked up the same smoker Neil Burton was raving about and since then I've had the chance to fire it up three or four times. Each time has been quite a learning experience, especially maintaining a low, steady temperature. Some of the results have been spectacular, but only the chicken so far. Whole legs soaked overnight in spices and maple syrup were particularly good smoked with oak logs, as was a large corn-fed chicken, spatchcocked.
I'd love to know how you do a whole pork shoulder, it sounds just awesome - but if the small-ish joint I tried is anything to go by, you can say goodbye to crispy crackling, which is highly prized over here.I'm more than happy to share my recipe. I have to get offline to go do some work on my house, but I'll get back online tonight.
I never made it to a computer last night, but I'm done.
I start with a whole boneless pork shoulder, patted dry. I first rub it with kosher salt. Other than flavor, this helps to bring water-soluble proteins to the surface of the meat.
I then coat it liberally with a rub (a mixture of spices and herbs) - you can make it yourself or buy one. I use a combination of salt, thyme, smoked paprika, chili pepper, black pepper and brown sugar. Depending on your taste, you can add cayenne and other flavors. I'm sure search engines will yield lots of rub recipes, but you'll learn over time what you and your family enjoys most.For the fire, I like apple wood because it provides good flavor, but also because I have a couple of large, old apple trees in my front yard that supply wood. However, you can use apple, pear, hickory or just about any other smoking wood. I find that in my smoker, oak tends to burn hotter than I like, so I avoid it. The wood should be well-dried. I start the fire and let it go for 20 to 30 minutes to get up to temp. Plan on adding wood every couple of hours throughout the cooking process. I also use a dual-probe BBQ thermometer (https://www.amazon.com/Ivation-Long-Range-Wireless-Thermometer/dp/B00ANCXJR6) to monitor the temperature of the air inside the smoker. The controls on it could be better, but it works. There are others available.
I then set the shoulders right on the grate and let it go. My target temp for the air inside the smoker is 200 F to 210 F. I think 230 F is too hot. I want to smoke it low and slow for that great smoked flavor. I keep underlining the word air because I'm not monitoring the temperature of the meat. The meat will be cooked to temperature long before the smoking is done, but I smoke by time. I go for about 14 hours, but you can pull it after 12 hours if you're going to serve it a day or 2 later. The reason for the very long time is that you want to break down all that connective tissue in the shoulder. The long, low heat breaks down the collagen into gelatin. It lets you pull it apart with two forks and produces that great texture that's famous in good BBQ.
When it's done, take it off and let it rest, covered with aluminum foil, for an hour on the counter. If you're going to serve it another day, cover it well and put it in the fridge. To reheat it, add enough water to your roasting pan to come between 1/4 and 1/3 the way up the shoulder. Add the shoulder and bake at 300 F for a couple of hours. When done, don't throw away the water, which has been transformed into a smokey broth. To "pull" the pork, simple shred it using two forks. Depending on the crust (also called bark) you've developed on the exterior of the meat, you might need to cut it in half and pull it from the inside. Be sure to pull or cut up the crust and mix it in with the rest of the pulled pork. If you like, you can sprinkle some of the smokey broth over the pork and mix it in. If not, it's a serious flavor base for homemade BBQ sauce.
For shoulders, I go by time. For cuts like pork tenderloin, I go by temp (145 F) because they'll dry out if you go longer. Tenderloins can be reheated the same as the shoulder, but don't overcook them; I use that same probe thermometer in the center of the tenderloin.
To address the issue of sauce, for me, it's always optional. I have a bottle or two available and let each individual decide for themselves at dinner.
I know this is a long post with a lot of info and I hope it wasn't too long. The key points are to rub it well, smoke it low and slow, let it rest and pull it while it's hot. I know that 12 to 14 hours is a lot of time, but for me, it's worth it. I learned a lot by doing it the first time. Enjoy!
Ed, thanks loads for taking the time to write all of this down, it sounds absolutely amazing and I can't wait to try it! There might be a Saturday free in a couple of weeks which is enough time to source some fruit wood, I've only got oak logs and fruitwood chips at the mo. Everything else is in place. I'll let you know how it works out!
Please do let me know. I really enjoy it. My smoker is pretty old and beaten up, so I just started doing research for a new one. If your smoker has good heat control and you can hold it around 210 F with oak, then most definitely give it a try.
July 10, 2017 at 8:03 am
Greg Edwards-268690 - Monday, July 10, 2017 7:22 AMJeff Moden - Monday, July 10, 2017 5:58 AMThey should take lessons from Grandmother... "Take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves". 😉
I'm always amazed that some people don't understand the value of actions based on forethought. Perhaps it's because some managers drive projects to meet a schedule rather than understanding the true cost of rework and doing it right the first time every time.
And the schedule is not met if extended by rework.
It shouldn't be checked off until this is completed.
Rework should really occur in Dev and QA, not in a production schedule.
Understanding and acknowledging this is key to process improvement.
Absolutely spot on except for the QA part. It shouldn't ever fail QA. 😉 They're testing to the same spec that the code was written. With the idea of test driven development being extremely valuable, I'll sometimes ask QA for their test use cases before I write a lick of code.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
July 10, 2017 at 2:56 pm
Brandie Tarvin - Monday, July 10, 2017 5:30 AMI really hate it when coworkers say "I don't have time to figure that out right now" but think I have time to be working errors back and forth with them (until we stumble across the solution) later on.
Are you by any chance working in an "Agile" environment? I hear that kind of talk around here all the time. :crazy:
July 11, 2017 at 4:29 am
Chris Harshman - Monday, July 10, 2017 2:56 PMBrandie Tarvin - Monday, July 10, 2017 5:30 AMI really hate it when coworkers say "I don't have time to figure that out right now" but think I have time to be working errors back and forth with them (until we stumble across the solution) later on.Are you by any chance working in an "Agile" environment? I hear that kind of talk around here all the time. :crazy:
Some people in other departments are. In my department, we tend to use a more rigid SDLC. About 5 years ago, we instituted a motto "get it right the first time" which has seriously improved a lot of things around here.
The annoying thing about this particular situation is that we're redirecting a feed from one department (that would roll our feed up into theirs before sending it onward) to the actual destination department. Everything in QC tested fine, but now in Prod, things are erroring out on special characters (that I know did exist in QC). So if I want to send the name O'Niell, I can't send the single quote with it. Thing is, the feed has never been scrubbed before from either us or the former department that used to send it. So either the destination department has been cleaning up manually without telling anyone or something has gone hinky with their system.
Worse, their system errors out a record on the first error and doesn't check for other errors, so if one record has 5 different "special characters", it's a crap shoot as if the correct record will pass or fail again 4 more times.
Either way, they don't have time to get me a list of special characters that can or can't be sent on the feed... And I find myself wondering why they don't know their system well enough to know this information already (or at least have a running documented list). It's not like I'm asking them to clean up my feed themselves. I just want to know what to scrub out so that it doesn't error on their side at all.
Is that too much to ask?
July 11, 2017 at 5:35 am
Brandie Tarvin - Tuesday, July 11, 2017 4:29 AMChris Harshman - Monday, July 10, 2017 2:56 PMBrandie Tarvin - Monday, July 10, 2017 5:30 AMI really hate it when coworkers say "I don't have time to figure that out right now" but think I have time to be working errors back and forth with them (until we stumble across the solution) later on.Are you by any chance working in an "Agile" environment? I hear that kind of talk around here all the time. :crazy:
Some people in other departments are. In my department, we tend to use a more rigid SDLC. About 5 years ago, we instituted a motto "get it right the first time" which has seriously improved a lot of things around here.
The annoying thing about this particular situation is that we're redirecting a feed from one department (that would roll our feed up into theirs before sending it onward) to the actual destination department. Everything in QC tested fine, but now in Prod, things are erroring out on special characters (that I know did exist in QC). So if I want to send the name O'Niell, I can't send the single quote with it. Thing is, the feed has never been scrubbed before from either us or the former department that used to send it. So either the destination department has been cleaning up manually without telling anyone or something has gone hinky with their system.
Worse, their system errors out a record on the first error and doesn't check for other errors, so if one record has 5 different "special characters", it's a crap shoot as if the correct record will pass or fail again 4 more times.
Either way, they don't have time to get me a list of special characters that can or can't be sent on the feed... And I find myself wondering why they don't know their system well enough to know this information already (or at least have a running documented list). It's not like I'm asking them to clean up my feed themselves. I just want to know what to scrub out so that it doesn't error on their side at all.
Is that too much to ask?
I don't think it's too much to ask, but I don't work in an agile environment either. If they "don't have time" to do their job by making a list, then they must not want a working system yet either. Is this a scenario where you can land it in their lap if a load fails? Of course, once they have it finished, you'll need to send failures elsewhere, but the motivation might get them to do what they need to do.
July 11, 2017 at 5:42 am
Ed Wagner - Tuesday, July 11, 2017 5:35 AMI don't think it's too much to ask, but I don't work in an agile environment either. If they "don't have time" to do their job by making a list, then they must not want a working system yet either. Is this a scenario where you can land it in their lap if a load fails? Of course, once they have it finished, you'll need to send failures elsewhere, but the motivation might get them to do what they need to do.
The entire load isn't failing, but no, I can't land it in their lap either. This is one of those federally mandated things. It has to work correctly.
On the plus side, my boss is on my side and this morning I got an email from another member of the team with a list of special characters, one of which failed in the load. She asked the person in question (who is sending me these errors) if a step in the process got skipped.
So there might be something else going on here and it looks like it's not my feed's fault.
July 11, 2017 at 6:04 am
Brandie Tarvin - Tuesday, July 11, 2017 4:29 AMSome people in other departments are. In my department, we tend to use a more rigid SDLC. About 5 years ago, we instituted a motto "get it right the first time" which has seriously improved a lot of things around here.The annoying thing about this particular situation is that we're redirecting a feed from one department (that would roll our feed up into theirs before sending it onward) to the actual destination department. Everything in QC tested fine, but now in Prod, things are erroring out on special characters (that I know did exist in QC). So if I want to send the name O'Niell, I can't send the single quote with it. Thing is, the feed has never been scrubbed before from either us or the former department that used to send it. So either the destination department has been cleaning up manually without telling anyone or something has gone hinky with their system.
Worse, their system errors out a record on the first error and doesn't check for other errors, so if one record has 5 different "special characters", it's a crap shoot as if the correct record will pass or fail again 4 more times.
Either way, they don't have time to get me a list of special characters that can or can't be sent on the feed... And I find myself wondering why they don't know their system well enough to know this information already (or at least have a running documented list). It's not like I'm asking them to clean up my feed themselves. I just want to know what to scrub out so that it doesn't error on their side at all.
Is that too much to ask?
To be honest, I'm against scrubbing data. If we can build systems to handle all sort of Asian characters, we shouldn't have problems with characters that are common in English. So, make them fix their system to handle the "special characters".
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