May 3, 2017 at 5:36 am
Grant Fritchey - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 5:31 AMBrandie Tarvin - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:58 AMWelcome to The Thread, Andy. If you're trying to read it all the way through from the start, congratulations on being a braver soul than many. This particular thread has evolved into a water cooler kind of place where we post about everything and anything, so don't feel constrained by the original topic.
I hope you brought cookies. @=)
And scotch.
Single malt please!
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
May 3, 2017 at 7:22 am
Thom A - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 5:36 AMGrant Fritchey - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 5:31 AMBrandie Tarvin - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:58 AMWelcome to The Thread, Andy. If you're trying to read it all the way through from the start, congratulations on being a braver soul than many. This particular thread has evolved into a water cooler kind of place where we post about everything and anything, so don't feel constrained by the original topic.
I hope you brought cookies. @=)
And scotch.
Single malt please!
+1
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
May 3, 2017 at 7:38 am
Jeff Moden - Tuesday, May 2, 2017 2:21 PMThat's "just" T-SQL.
Do you know how to stand up a VM? Can you do more that make a simple SSIS package like one that will cycle through files and do parallel imports based on the file names and or directory names? Do you know how to setup a matrix driven report in SSRS and color every other line as if it were "green bar" paper. Have you ever successfully setup a data warehouse for SSAS? Do you know how to use Service Broker? Can you setup log shipping or transactional replication? Can you shred simple XML without having to lookup how to do it? Do you think that "BI" is something other than an oxymoron? 😉
I don't even know how to get into the IDE for most of those (mostly because I've not needed to), haven't done some of those in nearly two decades, and won't do some of those even if you hold a gun against my head. Don't get me wrong. I've made a pretty good living at making some of those things unnecessary for the kind of work I've had to do (ETL is a prime example there) but there's a lot that I'd have to study to use any of the things I mentioned and more.
Every one has their specialties and their generalities. Mine don't include any of the things I've included above. If yours do (and I'm pretty sure they do), then you're a whole lot smarter than me (unless you consider avoiding those things as "smart" and then I might be the king of the hill 😉 )
1 - VM - No
2 - SSIS - Yes
3 - SSRS - Have to look some things up
4 - SSAS - Yes
5 - Service Broker - No
6 - Replication - Yes (unfortunately)
7 - XML - No
8 - BI - I know never to do a Google search for just "bi"
Three and a half to four out of eight. Better than I hoped.
Trying to get out of my comfort zone and become more active in the community (and these forums). Is there some sort of guide as to how to use them somewhere? I marked all the forums as read yesterday but when I go into individual threads they show as read even though there's been activity since I marked them read. I no longer have the option to go to the first new post.
May 3, 2017 at 7:56 am
Tom_Hogan - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 7:38 AMJeff Moden - Tuesday, May 2, 2017 2:21 PMThat's "just" T-SQL.
Do you know how to stand up a VM? Can you do more that make a simple SSIS package like one that will cycle through files and do parallel imports based on the file names and or directory names? Do you know how to setup a matrix driven report in SSRS and color every other line as if it were "green bar" paper. Have you ever successfully setup a data warehouse for SSAS? Do you know how to use Service Broker? Can you setup log shipping or transactional replication? Can you shred simple XML without having to lookup how to do it? Do you think that "BI" is something other than an oxymoron? 😉
I don't even know how to get into the IDE for most of those (mostly because I've not needed to), haven't done some of those in nearly two decades, and won't do some of those even if you hold a gun against my head. Don't get me wrong. I've made a pretty good living at making some of those things unnecessary for the kind of work I've had to do (ETL is a prime example there) but there's a lot that I'd have to study to use any of the things I mentioned and more.
Every one has their specialties and their generalities. Mine don't include any of the things I've included above. If yours do (and I'm pretty sure they do), then you're a whole lot smarter than me (unless you consider avoiding those things as "smart" and then I might be the king of the hill 😉 )
1 - VM - No
2 - SSIS - Yes
3 - SSRS - Have to look some things up
4 - SSAS - Yes
5 - Service Broker - No
6 - Replication - Yes (unfortunately)
7 - XML - No
8 - BI - I know never to do a Google search for just "bi"
Three and a half to four out of eight. Better than I hoped.Trying to get out of my comfort zone and become more active in the community (and these forums). Is there some sort of guide as to how to use them somewhere? I marked all the forums as read yesterday but when I go into individual threads they show as read even though there's been activity since I marked them read. I no longer have the option to go to the first new post.
So a BI developer is an oxymoron and there was me thinking that they where talking about his sexuality 🙂
May 3, 2017 at 7:59 am
RandomEvent - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 7:56 AMTom_Hogan - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 7:38 AMJeff Moden - Tuesday, May 2, 2017 2:21 PMThat's "just" T-SQL.
Do you know how to stand up a VM? Can you do more that make a simple SSIS package like one that will cycle through files and do parallel imports based on the file names and or directory names? Do you know how to setup a matrix driven report in SSRS and color every other line as if it were "green bar" paper. Have you ever successfully setup a data warehouse for SSAS? Do you know how to use Service Broker? Can you setup log shipping or transactional replication? Can you shred simple XML without having to lookup how to do it? Do you think that "BI" is something other than an oxymoron? 😉
I don't even know how to get into the IDE for most of those (mostly because I've not needed to), haven't done some of those in nearly two decades, and won't do some of those even if you hold a gun against my head. Don't get me wrong. I've made a pretty good living at making some of those things unnecessary for the kind of work I've had to do (ETL is a prime example there) but there's a lot that I'd have to study to use any of the things I mentioned and more.
Every one has their specialties and their generalities. Mine don't include any of the things I've included above. If yours do (and I'm pretty sure they do), then you're a whole lot smarter than me (unless you consider avoiding those things as "smart" and then I might be the king of the hill 😉 )
1 - VM - No
2 - SSIS - Yes
3 - SSRS - Have to look some things up
4 - SSAS - Yes
5 - Service Broker - No
6 - Replication - Yes (unfortunately)
7 - XML - No
8 - BI - I know never to do a Google search for just "bi"
Three and a half to four out of eight. Better than I hoped.Trying to get out of my comfort zone and become more active in the community (and these forums). Is there some sort of guide as to how to use them somewhere? I marked all the forums as read yesterday but when I go into individual threads they show as read even though there's been activity since I marked them read. I no longer have the option to go to the first new post.
So a BI developer is an oxymoron and there was me thinking that they where talking about his sexuality 🙂
Apologies if anyone found that offensive I spend far to long in the server room on my own and have lost the ability to hold politically correct conversations. Its part of the job I'm afraid.
May 3, 2017 at 8:14 am
So, the talk about what people do or don't know about SQL got me thinking...
How would *you* describe (in general) your knowledge base, not only of SQL but of the underlying infrastructure (OS, networking, storage, etc) as well?
Would you describe yourself as "broad, but shallow with a few deep spots," or "fairly narrow but deep, deep, deep," or something else?
I would even include in describing your knowledge, the ability to choose the search terms to get you to the knowledge you need to accomplish something quickly while filtering out the "garbage" results.
Myself, I'd probably describe my knowledge as being very broad, relatively shallow, with a few deeper spots.
What about you? How would you describe yourself?
May 3, 2017 at 8:20 am
jasona.work - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:14 AMSo, the talk about what people do or don't know about SQL got me thinking...
How would *you* describe (in general) your knowledge base, not only of SQL but of the underlying infrastructure (OS, networking, storage, etc) as well?
Would you describe yourself as "broad, but shallow with a few deep spots," or "fairly narrow but deep, deep, deep," or something else?
I would even include in describing your knowledge, the ability to choose the search terms to get you to the knowledge you need to accomplish something quickly while filtering out the "garbage" results.Myself, I'd probably describe my knowledge as being very broad, relatively shallow, with a few deeper spots.
What about you? How would you describe yourself?
Hmm... I'd say I'm swimming in the shallow end, it's not that wide, but that means I can easily swim widths. There's a few places where it gets deeper, and more than I'm confident swimming there without armbands ^_^ I do keep eyeing 1 or 2 of the diving boards at the deep end though, and wondering I can jump off the end and Dive bomb in. 😛
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
May 3, 2017 at 8:36 am
- Do you know how to stand up a VM?
Nope, never stood up a VM. Our SysAdmins do that, including installing SQL Server. I just use them just like bare metal servers.
- Can you do more that make a simple SSIS package like one that will cycle through files and do parallel imports based on the file names and or directory names?
Haven't touched SSIS (except using Import/Export Wizard) since leaving School District 11, and yes, there I wrote some moderately complex packages, some that even did things based on the file names since they had information encoded in the names to assist processing. And yes, I enforced the naming convention for those files.
- Do you know how to setup a matrix driven report in SSRS and color every other line as if it were "green bar" paper.
I am not Reporting Services developer. I haven't even setup a Reporting Server.
- Have you ever successfully setup a data warehouse for SSAS?
A data warehouse, no. Way back when under SQL Server 2000 I did setup a basic AS cube to validate downloads from a COBOL/ISAM system to a SQL Server database to ensure on a monthly basis all invoices, credits, debits, and returns have been downloaded so we could do the additional monthly reporting that was done off the SQL Server database.
- Do you know how to use Service Broker?
I have setup Service Broker once to automate the processes necessary to complete a mirror fail-over so there were no manual processes to be completed when a fail-over occurred.
- Can you setup log shipping or transactional replication?
Not without looking everything up, only did these in a lab/poc environment years ago.
- Can you shred simple XML without having to lookup how to do it?
Have to look it up, but learning how to do that now.
- Do you think that "BI" is something other than an oxymoron?
Sometimes, yes, I think it is an oxymoron but more because of the people trying to use it. I would like to learn the MSBI stack.
May 3, 2017 at 9:07 am
jasona.work - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:14 AMSo, the talk about what people do or don't know about SQL got me thinking...
How would *you* describe (in general) your knowledge base, not only of SQL but of the underlying infrastructure (OS, networking, storage, etc) as well?
Would you describe yourself as "broad, but shallow with a few deep spots," or "fairly narrow but deep, deep, deep," or something else?
I would even include in describing your knowledge, the ability to choose the search terms to get you to the knowledge you need to accomplish something quickly while filtering out the "garbage" results.Myself, I'd probably describe my knowledge as being very broad, relatively shallow, with a few deeper spots.
What about you? How would you describe yourself?
I would describe myself as a Jack of all Trades, a Master of None. I do feel I have strong knowledge of T-SQL and performance tuning queries and related database objects, capable of developing databases to 3NF working with a knowledgeable business analyst to ensure all necessary data elements are identified and in the right places.
I could easily relearn SSIS enough to start developing moderately complex packages and know who to contact to help improve those to be dynamically configured.
Fully dependent on others regarding the actual storage side having never even looked at what goes on inside a SAN or NAS storage system.
Networking, I know enough to know I don't know enough (anymore).
Reporting Services, a black hole at the moment.
I haven't had to install SQL Server in 7 years, but I still know how to admin a SQL Server instance and the databases that reside on an instance.
Still consider myself a DBA/Database Developer, but leaning much more toward the Database Developer side now.
May 3, 2017 at 9:19 am
Lynn Pettis - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 8:36 AMJeff:- Do you know how to stand up a VM?
Nope, never stood up a VM. Our SysAdmins do that, including installing SQL Server. I just use them just like bare metal servers.- Can you do more that make a simple SSIS package like one that will cycle through files and do parallel imports based on the file names and or directory names?
Haven't touched SSIS (except using Import/Export Wizard) since leaving School District 11, and yes, there I wrote some moderately complex packages, some that even did things based on the file names since they had information encoded in the names to assist processing. And yes, I enforced the naming convention for those files.- Do you know how to setup a matrix driven report in SSRS and color every other line as if it were "green bar" paper.
I am not Reporting Services developer. I haven't even setup a Reporting Server.- Have you ever successfully setup a data warehouse for SSAS?
A data warehouse, no. Way back when under SQL Server 2000 I did setup a basic AS cube to validate downloads from a COBOL/ISAM system to a SQL Server database to ensure on a monthly basis all invoices, credits, debits, and returns have been downloaded so we could do the additional monthly reporting that was done off the SQL Server database.- Do you know how to use Service Broker?
I have setup Service Broker once to automate the processes necessary to complete a mirror fail-over so there were no manual processes to be completed when a fail-over occurred.- Can you setup log shipping or transactional replication?
Not without looking everything up, only did these in a lab/poc environment years ago.- Can you shred simple XML without having to lookup how to do it?
Have to look it up, but learning how to do that now.- Do you think that "BI" is something other than an oxymoron?
Sometimes, yes, I think it is an oxymoron but more because of the people trying to use it. I would like to learn the MSBI stack.
I'll go out of my way not to use SSRS and SSIS if I don't have to, so I'm incredibly relieved to read your post. And while I'm perfectly sure I could stand up a VM (done it in Azure), I've never had the access to do it at work because our sysadmins do that. They get quite cranky about DBAs trying to do it, actually :). And I can set up transactional replication, but it helps to have a gun to my head.
May 3, 2017 at 9:34 am
Jeff Moden - Tuesday, May 2, 2017 2:21 PMThat's "just" T-SQL.
Do you know how to stand up a VM? Can you do more that make a simple SSIS package like one that will cycle through files and do parallel imports based on the file names and or directory names? Do you know how to setup a matrix driven report in SSRS and color every other line as if it were "green bar" paper. Have you ever successfully setup a data warehouse for SSAS? Do you know how to use Service Broker? Can you setup log shipping or transactional replication? Can you shred simple XML without having to lookup how to do it? Do you think that "BI" is something other than an oxymoron? 😉
I don't even know how to get into the IDE for most of those (mostly because I've not needed to), haven't done some of those in nearly two decades, and won't do some of those even if you hold a gun against my head. Don't get me wrong. I've made a pretty good living at making some of those things unnecessary for the kind of work I've had to do (ETL is a prime example there) but there's a lot that I'd have to study to use any of the things I mentioned and more.
Every one has their specialties and their generalities. Mine don't include any of the things I've included above. If yours do (and I'm pretty sure they do), then you're a whole lot smarter than me (unless you consider avoiding those things as "smart" and then I might be the king of the hill 😉 )
Do you know how to stand up a VM?
In Hyper V yes (I'm actually doing one now, as I'm doing a dry run for our DR test next week). I have also used Virtual Box on Ubuntu at home.
Can you do more that make a simple SSIS package like one that will cycle through files and do parallel imports based on the file names and or directory names?
Yes. I've built far too many SSIS packages and projects to read shite data out of Excel Spreadsheets than I'd like to admit. I swear they're the main cause for my receding hair line.
Do you know how to setup a matrix driven report in SSRS and color every other line as if it were "green bar" paper.
I've never done it, almost everything I do in SSRS are Tablix based, however, I'm confident I could (although might take a little experimentation).
Have you ever successfully setup a data warehouse for SSAS?
Only in the classroom. It is, however, is on the cards for this year once one of the other DBAs has finishing building the staging tables.
Do you know how to use Service Broker?
Didn't know what this was before :Whistling: Googled it, brief read on technet; I don't feel like I'm better off. 😛
Can you setup log shipping or transactional replication?
Nope. Never tried. Have little (no) idea where to even start.
Can you shred simple XML without having to lookup how to do it?
Sometimes. Depends on if I'm having a good day and if it has a namespace (cause I can never remember how to treat those).
Do you think that "BI" is something other than an oxymoron?
Bismuth?
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
May 3, 2017 at 9:37 am
allinadazework - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:47 AMSomeone must have the data to sensibly answer this question! At the very least it could be done by analysing the number of likes per post across time.
Surely someone could take a sample of questions from across time and set up a reliable means of rating the qualities that users feel makes them good or bad.
Maybe some ratings scales or yes/no questions. e.g.
Was the question clear and concise?
Was a clear example given?
Was sample data given?
Was a sample script given?
Was additional information required?
etc...
Maybe make the data and results could be made available to the forum users?
Perhaps add a ratings scale to each question so that you can start collecting this information and moderating questions more effectively?
Perhaps report a question for being unclear, duplicate, missing sample scripts and data etc.
Most people don't like or rate posts. It's very rare. We haven't had a rating item on the OP question, mostly just for answers.
The psychology of rating a question also deters people away. If you were told when you asked a question you did a poor job, and you hadn't included all these items, just as a bare rating without context (remember the OPs often are ignorant of custom and expectations) would you come back? Usually gentle reminders help, but just poorly rating people? I thin it's a poor idea.
Ultimately, this is a volunteer area. Help if you like, but if you don't want to because someone doesn't provide a sample script, don't. However I don't want to rate or discourage people from answering questions.
Same for duplication. Most people struggle to find an answer because they may frame or word the question differently than others. I hate going on SO, getting a closed as duplicate, with no link or answer. That's frustrating.
May 3, 2017 at 9:51 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 9:37 AMallinadazework - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:47 AMSomeone must have the data to sensibly answer this question! At the very least it could be done by analysing the number of likes per post across time.
Surely someone could take a sample of questions from across time and set up a reliable means of rating the qualities that users feel makes them good or bad.
Maybe some ratings scales or yes/no questions. e.g.
Was the question clear and concise?
Was a clear example given?
Was sample data given?
Was a sample script given?
Was additional information required?
etc...
Maybe make the data and results could be made available to the forum users?
Perhaps add a ratings scale to each question so that you can start collecting this information and moderating questions more effectively?
Perhaps report a question for being unclear, duplicate, missing sample scripts and data etc.Most people don't like or rate posts. It's very rare. We haven't had a rating item on the OP question, mostly just for answers.
The psychology of rating a question also deters people away. If you were told when you asked a question you did a poor job, and you hadn't included all these items, just as a bare rating without context (remember the OPs often are ignorant of custom and expectations) would you come back? Usually gentle reminders help, but just poorly rating people? I thin it's a poor idea.
Ultimately, this is a volunteer area. Help if you like, but if you don't want to because someone doesn't provide a sample script, don't. However I don't want to rate or discourage people from answering questions.
Same for duplication. Most people struggle to find an answer because they may frame or word the question differently than others. I hate going on SO, getting a closed as duplicate, with no link or answer. That's frustrating.
Hi Steve,
Rating or marking the posted question as duplicate etc doesn't have to be public. It could just be metadata collected for those that run the site (if they're interested - probably not).
What I was meaning was that if you really want to work this out (obviously no-one does and this just a bit of a puff and a wheeze) then you could go through and rate the posts based on some objective criteria and then find out whether there is a significant change across time.
This question comes across as implying that users are getting a bit more stoopider... right? Which might be seen as a bit patronising - especially to new users - and might also put people off posting!
Anyway, I just figured it was an interesting question and that if you want to answer it sensibly then this is how you might go about it if you had access to the data.
Thanks
May 3, 2017 at 9:59 am
allinadazework - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 9:51 AMSteve Jones - SSC Editor - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 9:37 AMallinadazework - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:47 AMSomeone must have the data to sensibly answer this question! At the very least it could be done by analysing the number of likes per post across time.
Surely someone could take a sample of questions from across time and set up a reliable means of rating the qualities that users feel makes them good or bad.
Maybe some ratings scales or yes/no questions. e.g.
Was the question clear and concise?
Was a clear example given?
Was sample data given?
Was a sample script given?
Was additional information required?
etc...
Maybe make the data and results could be made available to the forum users?
Perhaps add a ratings scale to each question so that you can start collecting this information and moderating questions more effectively?
Perhaps report a question for being unclear, duplicate, missing sample scripts and data etc.Most people don't like or rate posts. It's very rare. We haven't had a rating item on the OP question, mostly just for answers.
The psychology of rating a question also deters people away. If you were told when you asked a question you did a poor job, and you hadn't included all these items, just as a bare rating without context (remember the OPs often are ignorant of custom and expectations) would you come back? Usually gentle reminders help, but just poorly rating people? I thin it's a poor idea.
Ultimately, this is a volunteer area. Help if you like, but if you don't want to because someone doesn't provide a sample script, don't. However I don't want to rate or discourage people from answering questions.
Same for duplication. Most people struggle to find an answer because they may frame or word the question differently than others. I hate going on SO, getting a closed as duplicate, with no link or answer. That's frustrating.
Hi Steve,
Rating or marking the posted question as duplicate etc doesn't have to be public. It could just be metadata collected for those that run the site (if they're interested - probably not).
What I was meaning was that if you really want to work this out (obviously no-one does and this just a bit of a puff and a wheeze) then you could go through and rate the posts based on some objective criteria and then find out whether there is a significant change across time.
This question comes across as implying that users are getting a bit more stoopider... right? Which might be seen as a bit patronising - especially to new users - and might also put people off posting!
Anyway, I just figured it was an interesting question and that if you want to answer it sensibly then this is how you might go about it if you had access to the data.
Thanks
I'm not sure there is anything to be gained from this, anyone reading this thread is going to realise pretty quickly how off the wall and out of context it is. Allowing for the rate of change in SQL with the last couple of releases I think we all feel a little stoopider, its certainly changing faster than I can keep up with. It was nice to hear some of the expert's admitting to not knowing everything, makes me feel a little more comfortable with the gaps I have, and at the end of the day a product this big you can't know it all. Well I'm assuming not sure someone will let me know if they do.
May 3, 2017 at 10:07 am
Lynn Pettis - Wednesday, May 3, 2017 9:07 AMI would describe myself as a Jack of all Trades, a Master of None. I do feel I have strong knowledge of T-SQL and performance tuning queries and related database objects, capable of developing databases to 3NF working with a knowledgeable business analyst to ensure all necessary data elements are identified and in the right places.
I could easily relearn SSIS enough to start developing moderately complex packages and know who to contact to help improve those to be dynamically configured.
Fully dependent on others regarding the actual storage side having never even looked at what goes on inside a SAN or NAS storage system.
Networking, I know enough to know I don't know enough (anymore).
Reporting Services, a black hole at the moment.
I haven't had to install SQL Server in 7 years, but I still know how to admin a SQL Server instance and the databases that reside on an instance.Still consider myself a DBA/Database Developer, but leaning much more toward the Database Developer side now.
For the most part, I'm with Lynn, though I've done a little SSRS and know networking and OS level stuff fairly well. Just enough storage to make a judgment if someone is pulling my chain, but not enough to tune and set things up myself.
However, I'm effective. I get things done. I can learn, ask questions, and plug away at tasks to meet requirements.
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