April 12, 2017 at 2:22 pm
BrainDonor - Wednesday, April 12, 2017 6:08 AMGilaMonster - Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:53 AMSteve Jones - SSC Editor - Tuesday, April 11, 2017 3:46 PMNot a good 'bits ending for me either. Got sick Sat and had a miserable flight home Sunday.I blame you then. Came down sick Sunday. Monday was not fun (10 hour flight with nasty cough)
All of a sudden, missing SQLBits doesn't seem so bad.
Nah, it was an awesome conference. Won't be the first time I've got sick after an event.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
April 13, 2017 at 3:54 am
Grr... Some of the schedule tasks failed this morning... Took me while to then notice someone has the repository folder... I have an idea who it is (as it could of been 1 of 4 people, but as one is me, another is on holiday and the other was out of the office yesterday, I have a safe bet), but yesterday's backup and doesn't come back in from the cycle till Tuesday (and even if we could request it, Easter holiday shut down).
Revoked all their access apart from read, as they clearly can't be trusted, but a wonderful start to the end of the week >_<
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
April 14, 2017 at 6:12 am
So a question occurred to me reading an article on a sysadmin who planted a logic bomb in a former employers' system...
What would it take for any of you to do something similar? Presuming you had the means (whether it be a method of accessing the system from off-site, or something previously implanted that you prevent from executing,) how far would your employer have to push you before you would ignore the legal penalties and trash their systems? Not some "prank," like setting up something to change all the corporate desktop wallpapers to goatse.cx or something, but something that caused real damage to the company (the article states the sysadmin trashed the companies financial database)
Myself, I don't think I could do something like that, no matter how shabbily I was treated. Certainly I wouldn't speak well of the business, and I might even go so far as to publicly document my side of the story, but I wouldn't do anything to the actual companies equipment, etc.
What about you?
April 14, 2017 at 6:34 am
jasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 6:12 AMSo a question occurred to me reading an article on a sysadmin who planted a logic bomb in a former employers' system...What would it take for any of you to do something similar? Presuming you had the means (whether it be a method of accessing the system from off-site, or something previously implanted that you prevent from executing,) how far would your employer have to push you before you would ignore the legal penalties and trash their systems? Not some "prank," like setting up something to change all the corporate desktop wallpapers to goatse.cx or something, but something that caused real damage to the company (the article states the sysadmin trashed the companies financial database)
Myself, I don't think I could do something like that, no matter how shabbily I was treated. Certainly I wouldn't speak well of the business, and I might even go so far as to publicly document my side of the story, but I wouldn't do anything to the actual companies equipment, etc.
What about you?
A job is just a job. If I dislike the people, I'd leave. Revenge over mistreatment (from my perspective) isn't worth it. Often I find that (with my wife's help), I lack perspective. Even if I haven't liked something, it's not always what I think.
Setting logic bombs off not only hurts the employer, it will hurt coworkers. Either they will know it's you, and you might ruin your career, or they won't, and someone else or everyone else will be blamed.
April 14, 2017 at 7:45 am
jasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 6:12 AMSo a question occurred to me reading an article on a sysadmin who planted a logic bomb in a former employers' system...What would it take for any of you to do something similar? Presuming you had the means (whether it be a method of accessing the system from off-site, or something previously implanted that you prevent from executing,) how far would your employer have to push you before you would ignore the legal penalties and trash their systems? Not some "prank," like setting up something to change all the corporate desktop wallpapers to goatse.cx or something, but something that caused real damage to the company (the article states the sysadmin trashed the companies financial database)
Myself, I don't think I could do something like that, no matter how shabbily I was treated. Certainly I wouldn't speak well of the business, and I might even go so far as to publicly document my side of the story, but I wouldn't do anything to the actual companies equipment, etc.
What about you?
Would you consider a Y2K like issue a logic bomb (I would)? What about identifying such an issue 4 years before it would explode causing immediate problems but nothing that couldn't be fixed but would be time consuming, developed a thorough and concise plan to mitigate the problem only to have your manager shoot down dealing with the problem saying that we would be off this system before that happens?
Yes, I found a problem, developed a mitigation plan, and presented it to my manager. Shot down. I "left" the company 2 years later. On May 19, 2007 the logic bomb went off causing issues with the daily sales and reporting that day. It probably took them a minimum of four hours to correct the issues and maybe another couple hours to fix the data that was affected by the bug.
I am thinking a minimum of four hours because I have no faith in the people (except one person if he was brought back to the team to help resolve the problem that still works there today) supporting the software as they would have had to identify the issue, then identify the changes that need to be made to database tables (ISAM databases), programs and subroutines (COBOL), and then make the appropriate changes.
April 14, 2017 at 7:54 am
jasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 6:12 AMSo a question occurred to me reading an article on a sysadmin who planted a logic bomb in a former employers' system...What would it take for any of you to do something similar? Presuming you had the means (whether it be a method of accessing the system from off-site, or something previously implanted that you prevent from executing,) how far would your employer have to push you before you would ignore the legal penalties and trash their systems? Not some "prank," like setting up something to change all the corporate desktop wallpapers to goatse.cx or something, but something that caused real damage to the company (the article states the sysadmin trashed the companies financial database)
Myself, I don't think I could do something like that, no matter how shabbily I was treated. Certainly I wouldn't speak well of the business, and I might even go so far as to publicly document my side of the story, but I wouldn't do anything to the actual companies equipment, etc.
What about you?
The company I work for would turn out to be an alien-run secret invasion (as in extraterrestrials) trying to enslave humanity or destroy the Earth.
It would have to be something world-shattering to make me do something like that as I would really like to actually continue working and NOT go to jail for something as dreary as interpersonal issues with my employer. If it's a hostile workplace, I'd rather sue and make money off them. If it's just sheer stupidity, I'd rather run to a better job and warn everyone I know not to work at that company. But give me a true science-fiction type reality where the fate of the world depends on taking down The Company, and I'll step up in an instant. (Or so I'd like to think. The reality of one's life being in that kind of danger might just make me hide in a closet).
April 14, 2017 at 8:25 am
Lynn Pettis - Friday, April 14, 2017 7:45 AMjasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 6:12 AMSo a question occurred to me reading an article on a sysadmin who planted a logic bomb in a former employers' system...What would it take for any of you to do something similar? Presuming you had the means (whether it be a method of accessing the system from off-site, or something previously implanted that you prevent from executing,) how far would your employer have to push you before you would ignore the legal penalties and trash their systems? Not some "prank," like setting up something to change all the corporate desktop wallpapers to goatse.cx or something, but something that caused real damage to the company (the article states the sysadmin trashed the companies financial database)
Myself, I don't think I could do something like that, no matter how shabbily I was treated. Certainly I wouldn't speak well of the business, and I might even go so far as to publicly document my side of the story, but I wouldn't do anything to the actual companies equipment, etc.
What about you?
Would you consider a Y2K like issue a logic bomb (I would)? What about identifying such an issue 4 years before it would explode causing immediate problems but nothing that couldn't be fixed but would be time consuming, developed a thorough and concise plan to mitigate the problem only to have your manager shoot down dealing with the problem saying that we would be off this system before that happens?
Yes, I found a problem, developed a mitigation plan, and presented it to my manager. Shot down. I "left" the company 2 years later. On May 19, 2007 the logic bomb went off causing issues with the daily sales and reporting that day. It probably took them a minimum of four hours to correct the issues and maybe another couple hours to fix the data that was affected by the bug.
I am thinking a minimum of four hours because I have no faith in the people (except one person if he was brought back to the team to help resolve the problem that still works there today) supporting the software as they would have had to identify the issue, then identify the changes that need to be made to database tables (ISAM databases), programs and subroutines (COBOL), and then make the appropriate changes.
This sort of thing I wouldn't put in the same category, this falls more into "willful negligence" on the part of the business, not the employee. Now, if you had said you wrote the particular logic bomb with an eye towards causing problems for the company if they didn't also pay you to fix it (you were bored one day at work, wrote up the bomb and placed it, figuring to get a nice bonus in a couple years when you "found" and fixed it,) then I'd say it falls into the category...
April 14, 2017 at 8:32 am
Brandie Tarvin - Friday, April 14, 2017 7:54 AMjasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 6:12 AMSo a question occurred to me reading an article on a sysadmin who planted a logic bomb in a former employers' system...What would it take for any of you to do something similar? Presuming you had the means (whether it be a method of accessing the system from off-site, or something previously implanted that you prevent from executing,) how far would your employer have to push you before you would ignore the legal penalties and trash their systems? Not some "prank," like setting up something to change all the corporate desktop wallpapers to goatse.cx or something, but something that caused real damage to the company (the article states the sysadmin trashed the companies financial database)
Myself, I don't think I could do something like that, no matter how shabbily I was treated. Certainly I wouldn't speak well of the business, and I might even go so far as to publicly document my side of the story, but I wouldn't do anything to the actual companies equipment, etc.
What about you?
The company I work for would turn out to be an alien-run secret invasion (as in extraterrestrials) trying to enslave humanity or destroy the Earth.
It would have to be something world-shattering to make me do something like that as I would really like to actually continue working and NOT go to jail for something as dreary as interpersonal issues with my employer. If it's a hostile workplace, I'd rather sue and make money off them. If it's just sheer stupidity, I'd rather run to a better job and warn everyone I know not to work at that company. But give me a true science-fiction type reality where the fate of the world depends on taking down The Company, and I'll step up in an instant. (Or so I'd like to think. The reality of one's life being in that kind of danger might just make me hide in a closet).
I was sort of expecting this to be the general response of the threadizens. We'd have to find ourselves working someplace like Umbrella Corp, finding out that they were getting ready to release the T-virus, or Cyberdyne systems shortly before the rollout of the T-100 and Skynet, or {Insert evil corporation with world-takeover plan here}
BTW, Brandie, never come work for the gov, you're required to be rep&*^^^%^**************************************SIGNAL TERMINATED
April 14, 2017 at 8:43 am
jasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 8:25 AMLynn Pettis - Friday, April 14, 2017 7:45 AMjasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 6:12 AMSo a question occurred to me reading an article on a sysadmin who planted a logic bomb in a former employers' system...What would it take for any of you to do something similar? Presuming you had the means (whether it be a method of accessing the system from off-site, or something previously implanted that you prevent from executing,) how far would your employer have to push you before you would ignore the legal penalties and trash their systems? Not some "prank," like setting up something to change all the corporate desktop wallpapers to goatse.cx or something, but something that caused real damage to the company (the article states the sysadmin trashed the companies financial database)
Myself, I don't think I could do something like that, no matter how shabbily I was treated. Certainly I wouldn't speak well of the business, and I might even go so far as to publicly document my side of the story, but I wouldn't do anything to the actual companies equipment, etc.
What about you?
Would you consider a Y2K like issue a logic bomb (I would)? What about identifying such an issue 4 years before it would explode causing immediate problems but nothing that couldn't be fixed but would be time consuming, developed a thorough and concise plan to mitigate the problem only to have your manager shoot down dealing with the problem saying that we would be off this system before that happens?
Yes, I found a problem, developed a mitigation plan, and presented it to my manager. Shot down. I "left" the company 2 years later. On May 19, 2007 the logic bomb went off causing issues with the daily sales and reporting that day. It probably took them a minimum of four hours to correct the issues and maybe another couple hours to fix the data that was affected by the bug.
I am thinking a minimum of four hours because I have no faith in the people (except one person if he was brought back to the team to help resolve the problem that still works there today) supporting the software as they would have had to identify the issue, then identify the changes that need to be made to database tables (ISAM databases), programs and subroutines (COBOL), and then make the appropriate changes.
This sort of thing I wouldn't put in the same category, this falls more into "willful negligence" on the part of the business, not the employee. Now, if you had said you wrote the particular logic bomb with an eye towards causing problems for the company if they didn't also pay you to fix it (you were bored one day at work, wrote up the bomb and placed it, figuring to get a nice bonus in a couple years when you "found" and fixed it,) then I'd say it falls into the category...
Nope, I didn't write the bomb. It was written into the system from the start and that was back in the early 1980's. A lack of foresight or the original company/developers (it was an outsourced application at first) thought that a new system would be developed to replace it after a few years. Funny thing, this software is still in use at this company.
April 14, 2017 at 8:59 am
Lynn Pettis - Friday, April 14, 2017 8:43 AMNope, I didn't write the bomb. It was written into the system from the start and that was back in the early 1980's. A lack of foresight or the original company/developers (it was an outsourced application at first) thought that a new system would be developed to replace it after a few years. Funny thing, this software is still in use at this company.
So fairly typical situation then.
"This application will likely only be used for X years before we replace / retire it"
Application is still in use and even more critical X * Y^nth years later.
Same thing is the case with the majority of the bridges in the USA, expected to be replaced after 50 years, still in use and not replaced (and sometimes poorly maintained) 75yrs later and also now the main artery in/out of a city...
April 14, 2017 at 10:38 am
jasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 8:59 AMLynn Pettis - Friday, April 14, 2017 8:43 AMNope, I didn't write the bomb. It was written into the system from the start and that was back in the early 1980's. A lack of foresight or the original company/developers (it was an outsourced application at first) thought that a new system would be developed to replace it after a few years. Funny thing, this software is still in use at this company.
So fairly typical situation then.
"This application will likely only be used for X years before we replace / retire it"
Application is still in use and even more critical X * Y^nth years later.Same thing is the case with the majority of the bridges in the USA, expected to be replaced after 50 years, still in use and not replaced (and sometimes poorly maintained) 75yrs later and also now the main artery in/out of a city...
I know they're replacing a bridge from a highway a mile away from my place. Someone had to set it on fire, though. :hehe:
April 14, 2017 at 11:05 am
jasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 6:12 AMSo a question occurred to me reading an article on a sysadmin who planted a logic bomb in a former employers' system...What would it take for any of you to do something similar? Presuming you had the means (whether it be a method of accessing the system from off-site, or something previously implanted that you prevent from executing,) how far would your employer have to push you before you would ignore the legal penalties and trash their systems? Not some "prank," like setting up something to change all the corporate desktop wallpapers to goatse.cx or something, but something that caused real damage to the company (the article states the sysadmin trashed the companies financial database)
Myself, I don't think I could do something like that, no matter how shabbily I was treated. Certainly I wouldn't speak well of the business, and I might even go so far as to publicly document my side of the story, but I wouldn't do anything to the actual companies equipment, etc.
What about you?
I have a low opinion of people that sabotage their employer or fellow employees. To be frank, it is not hard to write a logic bomb to sabotage the employer. It just isn't worth it in any way shape or form. In the long run, this kind of behavior will end up defining you as an employee. Even if the current employer doesn't know you did it, I'd bet it would become easier to sabotage the next employer and then the next. At some point you will get caught. Even if it is a one time event, that tells me you probably feel some guilt over the action. You still know what you did in any case and that can be a pretty heavy burden over time.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
April 14, 2017 at 11:08 am
jasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 8:59 AMLynn Pettis - Friday, April 14, 2017 8:43 AMNope, I didn't write the bomb. It was written into the system from the start and that was back in the early 1980's. A lack of foresight or the original company/developers (it was an outsourced application at first) thought that a new system would be developed to replace it after a few years. Funny thing, this software is still in use at this company.
So fairly typical situation then.
"This application will likely only be used for X years before we replace / retire it"
Application is still in use and even more critical X * Y^nth years later.Same thing is the case with the majority of the bridges in the USA, expected to be replaced after 50 years, still in use and not replaced (and sometimes poorly maintained) 75yrs later and also now the main artery in/out of a city...
"Yes, we know it's out of date. But we CAN'T replace it. Mission-critical applications depend on this!"
April 14, 2017 at 11:48 am
Brandie Tarvin - Friday, April 14, 2017 11:08 AMjasona.work - Friday, April 14, 2017 8:59 AMLynn Pettis - Friday, April 14, 2017 8:43 AMNope, I didn't write the bomb. It was written into the system from the start and that was back in the early 1980's. A lack of foresight or the original company/developers (it was an outsourced application at first) thought that a new system would be developed to replace it after a few years. Funny thing, this software is still in use at this company.
So fairly typical situation then.
"This application will likely only be used for X years before we replace / retire it"
Application is still in use and even more critical X * Y^nth years later.Same thing is the case with the majority of the bridges in the USA, expected to be replaced after 50 years, still in use and not replaced (and sometimes poorly maintained) 75yrs later and also now the main artery in/out of a city...
"Yes, we know it's out of date. But we CAN'T replace it. Mission-critical applications depend on this!"
Up here they're *FINALLY* replacing the deck of a major freeway bridge (I-75 over the Rouge River) It's only a 50 year old bridge, which over the last 10 years or so has had not only potholes, but holes THROUGH the bridge deck on a fairly regular basis.
Now if you're coming into Detroit from downriver / south, you either detour onto surface streets for a ways, or go quite a bit out of your way on I-275 to get around the construction...
Now, this isn't to say that a bridge that is well maintained and was built well at the start can't last longer than it's original intended life (witness the Mackinac Bridge (60yrs old), the Blue Water Bridge (79yrs old) in Port Huron) Both are in excellent condition and carry a LOT of traffic year-round.
April 14, 2017 at 1:21 pm
Is it me, or is the new Star Wars trailer just not that impressive?
http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-first-trailer-for-star-wars-the-last-jedi-is-here-1794299927
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