March 14, 2017 at 10:44 am
bmg002 - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:27 AMdrew.allen - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:15 AMI applied for a job yesterday, and they sent me a SQL test to take. I thought all of the questions were poorly worded, but one in particular was very badly worded. It also used a data type that is invalid in SQL Server (unless they've introduced it in 2016) INT(2). In my answer, I included my thoughts about how poorly worded it was. I wonder if will help or hurt me getting the job.Drew
Yikes... that is a strange data type. I can't even think what that would be. A 2 byte INT? an INT with a default value of 2? An array with 2 INTs in it? None of those really make sense though.
I hope you get the job and that the comments helped. I know if I was doing the hiring and somebody put a comment of "INT(2) is not a valid data type in SQL Server", I'd be questioning the person who wrote the original question.
A quick google of it though makes it sound like it is a MySQL data type, not a SQL Server data type. Were they hiring a SQL Server DBA or a MySQL DBA?
I wonder if the test would make more sense knowing they were looking for a MySQL DBA?
It seems like they downloaded the test/questions and didn't bother to check them. On my previous company they had screening tests that hardly gave any useful guidance on their skills level. When they started to assign me the technical interviews, I had to create a new test that would actually be useful.
By the way, INT(2) seems like a smallint. This is based on my experience with SSIS and its integer data types (DT_I1, DT_I2, DT_I4, DT_I8). And even if arrays are part of the SQL standard, I don't get their use in a relational database.
March 14, 2017 at 10:45 am
bmg002 - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:27 AMdrew.allen - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:15 AMI applied for a job yesterday, and they sent me a SQL test to take. I thought all of the questions were poorly worded, but one in particular was very badly worded. It also used a data type that is invalid in SQL Server (unless they've introduced it in 2016) INT(2). In my answer, I included my thoughts about how poorly worded it was. I wonder if will help or hurt me getting the job.Drew
Yikes... that is a strange data type. I can't even think what that would be. A 2 byte INT? an INT with a default value of 2? An array with 2 INTs in it? None of those really make sense though.
I hope you get the job and that the comments helped. I know if I was doing the hiring and somebody put a comment of "INT(2) is not a valid data type in SQL Server", I'd be questioning the person who wrote the original question.
A quick google of it though makes it sound like it is a MySQL data type, not a SQL Server data type. Were they hiring a SQL Server DBA or a MySQL DBA?
I wonder if the test would make more sense knowing they were looking for a MySQL DBA?
I think it was supposed to be 2 decimal digits. They provided the DDL for two tables (no unique/primary key specified) and stated that one had 60 records (no data) and the other had 100 records (no data) and wanted to know how many records I expected from an INNER, LEFT OUTER, RIGHT OUTER, and FULL OUTER JOIN on the two tables (no join criteria specified).
Drew
J. Drew Allen
Business Intelligence Analyst
Philadelphia, PA
March 14, 2017 at 10:46 am
drew.allen - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:15 AMI applied for a job yesterday, and they sent me a SQL test to take. I thought all of the questions were poorly worded, but one in particular was very badly worded. It also used a data type that is invalid in SQL Server (unless they've introduced it in 2016) INT(2). In my answer, I included my thoughts about how poorly worded it was. I wonder if will help or hurt me getting the job.Drew
You never know, they might have been trying to catch you out with that INT(2). I have had an interview question a few years back where they intentionally asked a loaded "gotcha" question to see if I would notice their mistake or not. Maybe they were expecting you to tell them that INT(2) is an invalid data type, and give an answer that would fulfil their needs using a valid one.
Of course, if the rest of the language in the test was as bad as you suggest, I'm sceptical.
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
March 14, 2017 at 10:49 am
Hugo Kornelis - Monday, March 13, 2017 6:27 PMLynn Pettis - Monday, March 13, 2017 4:33 PMLuis Cazares - Monday, March 13, 2017 4:17 PMI'll be extremely happy the day that JC admits he's wrong in a forum post. Every time he's proven wrong, he just avoids the subject and posts more unrelated nonsense. If he simply admitted his mistakes (blaming his eyes doesn't count) I would, at least, have some respect for his internet persona.Doubt that would happen. I called him out a few years ago when the code he posted failed to run in SSMS. Nary a peep from him regarding the unusable code he posted.
That will not happen. Ever.
About 10 years ago, before Usenet started to disappear into irrelevance, I often clashed with him on the sqlserver newsgroups. When I responded I always made sure to double check my facts, and to make sure all my comments were completely accurate. I soon noticed a pattern, where he would respond to other people in the thread (who I agreed with but who were less accurate in their wording) while ignoring my words. I first thought he needed more time to think about his response to me, but soon realized that he is simply too childish to admit defeat.
After that I stopped putting in the effort to respond to him. I did not care about winning or losing (I'll admit that the first silent treatment did taste like victory; after that it just left me with a bitter taste in my mouth). I cared about informing and educating the community (and, perhaps, Joe) by pointing out the things where Joe had a point and the things where he completely missed it. An acknowledging response from him would have helped, but I knew that would never happen. Joe did (and apparently still does) not care a single flying hoot on educating the community, he only cares about growing his own ego. Publicly opening the door to the idea that in theory The Great Celko (TM) couild in theory also be wrong does not fit in how he sees himself.Ignore him. Theres nothing you can do to prevent him from posting his copy/paste messages in every place where they appear to mildly fit, there's nothing you can do to stop him from belittling people, and there's nothing you can do to educate him on either databases or social interaction. And, sadly, there is nothing you can do to prevent people from taking his ill-headed advice.
And for this extremely low probability is that it would make the incident something wonderful.
March 14, 2017 at 10:55 am
Thom A - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:46 AMdrew.allen - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:15 AMI applied for a job yesterday, and they sent me a SQL test to take. I thought all of the questions were poorly worded, but one in particular was very badly worded. It also used a data type that is invalid in SQL Server (unless they've introduced it in 2016) INT(2). In my answer, I included my thoughts about how poorly worded it was. I wonder if will help or hurt me getting the job.Drew
You never know, they might have been trying to catch you out with that INT(2). I have had an interview question a few years back where they intentionally asked a loaded "gotcha" question to see if I would notice they're mistake or not. Maybe they were expecting you to tell them that INT(2) is an invalid data type, and give an answer that would fulfil their needs using a valid one.
Of course, if the rest of the language in the test was as bad as you suggest, I'm sceptical.
In my response, I said that they hadn't specified the join criteria and mentioned the three likely possibilities; I mentioned that INT(2) was not a valid data type and suggested TINYINT; I also pointed out the lack of a unique constraint and said that lookup tables usually do have one, so I was going to assume one. I also mentioned that lookup tables tend to start with an ID 1 and be sequential (so there would be almost complete overlap), but that TINYINT allowed enough space that there could be no overlap, so I gave my answers as ranges. I did not mention that it was highly unusual to join two (seemingly unrelated) lookup tables directly to each other.
Drew
J. Drew Allen
Business Intelligence Analyst
Philadelphia, PA
March 14, 2017 at 10:59 am
drew.allen - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:45 AMbmg002 - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:27 AMdrew.allen - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:15 AMI applied for a job yesterday, and they sent me a SQL test to take. I thought all of the questions were poorly worded, but one in particular was very badly worded. It also used a data type that is invalid in SQL Server (unless they've introduced it in 2016) INT(2). In my answer, I included my thoughts about how poorly worded it was. I wonder if will help or hurt me getting the job.Drew
Yikes... that is a strange data type. I can't even think what that would be. A 2 byte INT? an INT with a default value of 2? An array with 2 INTs in it? None of those really make sense though.
I hope you get the job and that the comments helped. I know if I was doing the hiring and somebody put a comment of "INT(2) is not a valid data type in SQL Server", I'd be questioning the person who wrote the original question.
A quick google of it though makes it sound like it is a MySQL data type, not a SQL Server data type. Were they hiring a SQL Server DBA or a MySQL DBA?
I wonder if the test would make more sense knowing they were looking for a MySQL DBA?I think it was supposed to be 2 decimal digits. They provided the DDL for two tables (no unique/primary key specified) and stated that one had 60 records (no data) and the other had 100 records (no data) and wanted to know how many records I expected from an INNER, LEFT OUTER, RIGHT OUTER, and FULL OUTER JOIN on the two tables (no join criteria specified).
Drew
Wow... I wouldn't even know how to answer that question. There is no correct answer that question.
How did you answer that question?
They could have just as easily said "what does 9 taste like?" and it'd be just as good of a question. But at least for my question you could get an answer... you just have to ask 7.
The above is all just my opinion on what you should do.
As with all advice you find on a random internet forum - you shouldn't blindly follow it. Always test on a test server to see if there is negative side effects before making changes to live!
I recommend you NEVER run "random code" you found online on any system you care about UNLESS you understand and can verify the code OR you don't care if the code trashes your system.
March 14, 2017 at 12:52 pm
Just love those "Solve my architecture" questions we some times see. Let's see, do your job for you for free or walk away? Walk away!
March 14, 2017 at 1:15 pm
Lynn Pettis - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 12:52 PMJust love those "Solve my architecture" questions we some times see. Let's see, do your job for you for free or walk away? Walk away!
LOL... had 2 different job interviews at the same company in the span of 3 years, both times it felt like they were trying to get free consulting advice. in the second time, I explained to them several reasons why their scenario they presented didn't make sense, without giving them a solution and all they could say was "oh... we never thought of the problem that way. But if we implement it our way, how would you maintain it?"
March 14, 2017 at 1:38 pm
Lynn Pettis - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 12:52 PMJust love those "Solve my architecture" questions we some times see. Let's see, do your job for you for free or walk away? Walk away!
I think that's one of the reasons my posting has fallen off, there seem to be just so many questions that when you read them, your first thought is either "homework" or "do my job for me."
March 14, 2017 at 3:49 pm
drew.allen - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 10:15 AMI applied for a job yesterday, and they sent me a SQL test to take. I thought all of the questions were poorly worded, but one in particular was very badly worded. It also used a data type that is invalid in SQL Server (unless they've introduced it in 2016) INT(2). In my answer, I included my thoughts about how poorly worded it was. I wonder if will help or hurt me getting the job.Drew
It will definitely help in getting the right match. If they reject you because of that, you never wanted to work there in the first place.
March 15, 2017 at 4:45 am
Chris Harshman - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 1:15 PMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 12:52 PMJust love those "Solve my architecture" questions we some times see. Let's see, do your job for you for free or walk away? Walk away!LOL... had 2 different job interviews at the same company in the span of 3 years, both times it felt like they were trying to get free consulting advice. in the second time, I explained to them several reasons why their scenario they presented didn't make sense, without giving them a solution and all they could say was "oh... we never thought of the problem that way. But if we implement it our way, how would you maintain it?"
I do think this is a thing. I went to an interview last year and it was very obvious from the very first question that they wanted a developer, not a DBA, so I politely called an end to the interview on that basis, because I don't want to be a developer and I don't have the skillset anyway (which is obvious from my CV). They then sat there for a further 10 minutes and got as much out of me about backups, transaction log management etc. as possible. I didn't mind answering a couple of questions for them (you never know when your paths might cross again one day), but they really took the piss. I needed one of them to let me out of the building so I couldn't just leave. It was insane.
March 15, 2017 at 5:25 am
Beatrix Kiddo - Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:45 AMThey then sat there for a further 10 minutes and got as much out of me about backups, transaction log management etc. as possible.
Aka free consulting in the guise of an interview. 🙁
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 15, 2017 at 6:03 am
It's not always about free consulting. When we had people get past our tier 1 phone interview, assuming they did well during our second discussion (white board & all that fun stuff), I almost always asked them about our latest problem or challenge. It's not that I wanted free consulting, but I did want to see how they'd think through and interact with me on a real problem.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 15, 2017 at 6:09 am
Grant Fritchey - Wednesday, March 15, 2017 6:03 AMI almost always asked them about our latest problem or challenge. It's not that I wanted free consulting, but I did want to see how they'd think through and interact with me on a real problem.
That's fair, but
I politely called an end to the interview on that basis, because I don't want to be a developer and I don't have the skillset anyway (which is obvious from my CV). They then sat there for a further 10 minutes and got as much out of me about backups, transaction log management etc. as possible.
"We're looking for a developer, not a DBA, but we'll ask about stuff that's not relevant for the position when you've already decided not to go further in the interview process", aka free consulting.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 15, 2017 at 7:03 am
Chris Harshman - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 1:15 PMLynn Pettis - Tuesday, March 14, 2017 12:52 PMJust love those "Solve my architecture" questions we some times see. Let's see, do your job for you for free or walk away? Walk away!LOL... had 2 different job interviews at the same company in the span of 3 years, both times it felt like they were trying to get free consulting advice. in the second time, I explained to them several reasons why their scenario they presented didn't make sense, without giving them a solution and all they could say was "oh... we never thought of the problem that way. But if we implement it our way, how would you maintain it?"
"But if we implement it our way, how would you maintain it?"
"Hire me and find out."
Thomas Rushton
blog: https://thelonedba.wordpress.com
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