February 22, 2017 at 1:28 am
Henrico Bekker - Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:01 PMGilaMonster - Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:59 PMJustMarie - Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:09 PMHalf of me wants to figure out how to block him so I never see another post. Half of me considers it a train wreck I can't help watching.https://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/FindPost1860011.aspx
Can we ban him again? I'm sick of seeing him insult people asking for help.
and another:
https://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Dialogs/PostDetails.aspx?PostID=1860050
https://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Dialogs/PostDetails.aspx?PostID=1860028He's really offensive and stand against everything a community should.
Ihave seen some of your other postings. And frankly, I would neveremploy you or let you graduate from a class of mine. You really donot understand what is going on.
I'm all for constructive criticism, but he does take it to far (https://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/FindPost1860050.aspx).
The app I'm working with at the moment is a COTS app so I can only go off what the applications developers develop, so that's what I have to work with, yes the sample code is a little off but that's the schema the app uses and the data is obfuscated to oblige with internal rules, but if he wants to start spouting ANSI/ISO standards, get off your high horse and go preach it to all the software houses around the world instead of sitting behind the keyboard and harassing people who need help.
February 22, 2017 at 2:02 am
I'm all for constructive criticism, but he does take it to far (https://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/FindPost1860050.aspx).
The real pity of it is that every now and again he explains something politely and in such a way as to get the concept across really well. Some of his explanations are quite brilliant but I've been on the receiving end of his abuse before too and it just puts you off ever wanting to have anything to do with him.
He wastes so many opportunities to really help somebody change their way of thinking for the better.
February 22, 2017 at 2:11 am
It's a definite shame for the newer users, who clearly have tried their best, but don't quite understand some of the principles. The ones that maybe do post a screenshot of their data, and after being asked (once) and pointed in the right direction do give DDL and Sample data. Some of the responses he gives someone, who clearly state they are "new" to SQL server make me wonder if they'll ever go near it again (or at least this community).
Some of those users probably have the potential to become (very) good at SQL and contribute, but first impressions are everything. I see it as a shame that he's shunning new and aspiring SQL users before they are barely out the box.
Thom~
Excuse my typos and sometimes awful grammar. My fingers work faster than my brain does.
Larnu.uk
February 22, 2017 at 3:11 am
I've referred the problem to The Powers That Be...
Thomas Rushton
blog: https://thelonedba.wordpress.com
February 22, 2017 at 4:26 am
Thom A - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:11 AMIt's a definite shame for the newer users, who clearly have tried their best, but don't quite understand some of the principles. The ones that maybe do post a screenshot of their data, and after being asked (once) and pointed in the right direction do give DDL and Sample data. Some of the responses he gives someone, who clearly state they are "new" to SQL server make me wonder if they'll ever go near it again (or at least this community).Some of those users probably have the potential to become (very) good at SQL and contribute, but first impressions are everything. I see it as a shame that he's shunning new and aspiring SQL users before they are barely out the box.
And this might be one of the reasons why its so hard to keep women in tech. If some of these new users are female, then they absolutely will feel that having a job in technology isn't worth it if this is the kind of "male harassment" they're going to have to put up with.
No offense to those of you here who are actually helpful.
February 22, 2017 at 4:33 am
The "terms of use" (link at bottom of web page)
8.1 We may, in our absolute discretion:
(a) block you from using the Site where we consider that you have made any contribution to the Site which is misleading, defamatory, obscene, offensive, discriminatory or otherwise unlawful, or where you have otherwise breached these Terms of Use; and/ or
(b) remove from the Site any posting made by you which we consider to be misleading, defamatory, obscene, offensive, discriminatory, materially inaccurate or otherwise unlawful or in breach of these Terms of Use.
Please Steve? It's not even that he doesn't know better, or any other such excuse. He's this way intentionally.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 22, 2017 at 4:47 am
Brandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:26 AMThom A - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:11 AMIt's a definite shame for the newer users, who clearly have tried their best, but don't quite understand some of the principles. The ones that maybe do post a screenshot of their data, and after being asked (once) and pointed in the right direction do give DDL and Sample data. Some of the responses he gives someone, who clearly state they are "new" to SQL server make me wonder if they'll ever go near it again (or at least this community).Some of those users probably have the potential to become (very) good at SQL and contribute, but first impressions are everything. I see it as a shame that he's shunning new and aspiring SQL users before they are barely out the box.
And this might be one of the reasons why its so hard to keep women in tech. If some of these new users are female, then they absolutely will feel that having a job in technology isn't worth it if this is the kind of "male harassment" they're going to have to put up with.
No offense to those of you here who are actually helpful.
I have to disagree on this one, Brandie.
Joe's harassment is not gender-specific. He is the same a-hole to everyone, and I am pretty sure that this is equally offensive to both males and females.
February 22, 2017 at 5:44 am
Hugo Kornelis - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:47 AMBrandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:26 AMThom A - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:11 AMIt's a definite shame for the newer users, who clearly have tried their best, but don't quite understand some of the principles. The ones that maybe do post a screenshot of their data, and after being asked (once) and pointed in the right direction do give DDL and Sample data. Some of the responses he gives someone, who clearly state they are "new" to SQL server make me wonder if they'll ever go near it again (or at least this community).Some of those users probably have the potential to become (very) good at SQL and contribute, but first impressions are everything. I see it as a shame that he's shunning new and aspiring SQL users before they are barely out the box.
And this might be one of the reasons why its so hard to keep women in tech. If some of these new users are female, then they absolutely will feel that having a job in technology isn't worth it if this is the kind of "male harassment" they're going to have to put up with.
No offense to those of you here who are actually helpful.
I have to disagree on this one, Brandie.
Joe's harassment is not gender-specific. He is the same a-hole to everyone, and I am pretty sure that this is equally offensive to both males and females.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying its gender specific. I'm saying any female new to SQL Server will find this behavior toward them disheartening and causing them to re-evaluate if they even want to put up with abuse like this. It's yet another obstacle for someone wanting to stick around in this industry. After all, if they have to put up with this abuse after saying they're new and asking for help, then there's a good chance they'll be treated this way for the rest of their professional lives.
EDIT: Further clarifying... Women have enough crap to put up with and have to work harder already to prove themselves. Stuff like this, which may feel very "male harassment" to them even if it's equal-opportunity harassment, only discourages them from trying.
February 22, 2017 at 5:48 am
Hugo Kornelis - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:47 AMBrandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:26 AMThom A - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:11 AMIt's a definite shame for the newer users, who clearly have tried their best, but don't quite understand some of the principles. The ones that maybe do post a screenshot of their data, and after being asked (once) and pointed in the right direction do give DDL and Sample data. Some of the responses he gives someone, who clearly state they are "new" to SQL server make me wonder if they'll ever go near it again (or at least this community).Some of those users probably have the potential to become (very) good at SQL and contribute, but first impressions are everything. I see it as a shame that he's shunning new and aspiring SQL users before they are barely out the box.
And this might be one of the reasons why its so hard to keep women in tech. If some of these new users are female, then they absolutely will feel that having a job in technology isn't worth it if this is the kind of "male harassment" they're going to have to put up with.
No offense to those of you here who are actually helpful.
I have to disagree on this one, Brandie.
Joe's harassment is not gender-specific. He is the same a-hole to everyone, and I am pretty sure that this is equally offensive to both males and females.
Hugo, I don't think that's quite what she might have been saying though.
(And please, if anyone thinks I'm being sexist, slap me around right now)
I think it might be a couple things:
A) Women already have a tough time getting into technical jobs, regardless of skill level
B) Then they often have to deal with the sort of "man-childs" who are already in those positions (no, not all of us, but they're out there and we all know it)
C) THEN they may feel (rightly or wrongly) that they're being expected to meet a higher standard
D) THEN they ask for help (hey, we all have to from time to time) and run into someone like Joe on a forum and decide "I don't need this sh*t, I'm tired of the good ol' boys club crap" and despite being, or having the potential to be, a truly awesome SQL DBA (Gail, Brandi, Kendra Little, etc) bail out and do something else or just never come back here again
I'm not saying we (males) need to coddle women, but we do need to be aware of our own biases.
In Joes' case though, yeah, he can be an a-hole all around.
February 22, 2017 at 5:52 am
jasona.work - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:48 AMHugo Kornelis - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:47 AMBrandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:26 AMThom A - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:11 AMIt's a definite shame for the newer users, who clearly have tried their best, but don't quite understand some of the principles. The ones that maybe do post a screenshot of their data, and after being asked (once) and pointed in the right direction do give DDL and Sample data. Some of the responses he gives someone, who clearly state they are "new" to SQL server make me wonder if they'll ever go near it again (or at least this community).Some of those users probably have the potential to become (very) good at SQL and contribute, but first impressions are everything. I see it as a shame that he's shunning new and aspiring SQL users before they are barely out the box.
And this might be one of the reasons why its so hard to keep women in tech. If some of these new users are female, then they absolutely will feel that having a job in technology isn't worth it if this is the kind of "male harassment" they're going to have to put up with.
No offense to those of you here who are actually helpful.
I have to disagree on this one, Brandie.
Joe's harassment is not gender-specific. He is the same a-hole to everyone, and I am pretty sure that this is equally offensive to both males and females.Hugo, I don't think that's quite what she might have been saying though.
(And please, if anyone thinks I'm being sexist, slap me around right now)
I think it might be a couple things:
A) Women already have a tough time getting into technical jobs, regardless of skill level
B) Then they often have to deal with the sort of "man-childs" who are already in those positions (no, not all of us, but they're out there and we all know it)
C) THEN they may feel (rightly or wrongly) that they're being expected to meet a higher standard
D) THEN they ask for help (hey, we all have to from time to time) and run into someone like Joe on a forum and decide "I don't need this sh*t, I'm tired of the good ol' boys club crap" and despite being, or having the potential to be, a truly awesome SQL DBA (Gail, Brandi, Kendra Little, etc) bail out and do something else or just never come back here againI'm not saying we (males) need to coddle women, but we do need to be aware of our own biases.
In Joes' case though, yeah, he can be an a-hole all around.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Perception is everything. And what woman treated this way by him is going to stick around the forums long enough to see that he's treating everyone else this way too?
Unless they've already heard of his rep, that is. And that's asking a lot for people new to the forums.
February 22, 2017 at 5:56 am
On a completely unrelated note to the existing discussion, came across something interesting today (if you don't mind vendor lock-in HARD)
A geo-distributed, ACID compliant, SQL database system...
Google Spanner: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/22/google_spanner_fixing_the_problem_of_distributed_sql_databases/
Oooo, and you can try it: https://cloud.google.com/spanner/
Ought to be interesting to see if the other big guns (MS, Oracle, AWS) come up with something similar in the near future...
February 22, 2017 at 6:06 am
jasona.work - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:48 AMC) THEN they may feel (rightly or wrongly) that they're being expected to meet a higher standard
Which happens. I've had that or similar more than enough times, and some of them recent.
Hell, a male colleague of mine was telling me about a manager at a client he works with saying over coffee how he feels that woman shouldn't be in IT because they're not as analytical, careful, too emotional, etc. 🙁
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 22, 2017 at 6:21 am
jasona.work - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:48 AMHugo Kornelis - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:47 AMBrandie Tarvin - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:26 AMThom A - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:11 AMIt's a definite shame for the newer users, who clearly have tried their best, but don't quite understand some of the principles. The ones that maybe do post a screenshot of their data, and after being asked (once) and pointed in the right direction do give DDL and Sample data. Some of the responses he gives someone, who clearly state they are "new" to SQL server make me wonder if they'll ever go near it again (or at least this community).Some of those users probably have the potential to become (very) good at SQL and contribute, but first impressions are everything. I see it as a shame that he's shunning new and aspiring SQL users before they are barely out the box.
And this might be one of the reasons why its so hard to keep women in tech. If some of these new users are female, then they absolutely will feel that having a job in technology isn't worth it if this is the kind of "male harassment" they're going to have to put up with.
No offense to those of you here who are actually helpful.
I have to disagree on this one, Brandie.
Joe's harassment is not gender-specific. He is the same a-hole to everyone, and I am pretty sure that this is equally offensive to both males and females.Hugo, I don't think that's quite what she might have been saying though.
(And please, if anyone thinks I'm being sexist, slap me around right now)
I think it might be a couple things:
A) Women already have a tough time getting into technical jobs, regardless of skill level
B) Then they often have to deal with the sort of "man-childs" who are already in those positions (no, not all of us, but they're out there and we all know it)
C) THEN they may feel (rightly or wrongly) that they're being expected to meet a higher standard
D) THEN they ask for help (hey, we all have to from time to time) and run into someone like Joe on a forum and decide "I don't need this sh*t, I'm tired of the good ol' boys club crap" and despite being, or having the potential to be, a truly awesome SQL DBA (Gail, Brandi, Kendra Little, etc) bail out and do something else or just never come back here againI'm not saying we (males) need to coddle women, but we do need to be aware of our own biases.
In Joes' case though, yeah, he can be an a-hole all around.
Unrelated, but your comments reminded me of this blog post I read a couple days ago. I wonder what do these as...people have in their minds.
https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber
February 22, 2017 at 6:23 am
GilaMonster - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 6:06 AMjasona.work - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 5:48 AMC) THEN they may feel (rightly or wrongly) that they're being expected to meet a higher standardWhich happens. I've had that or similar more than enough times, and some of them recent.
Hell, a male colleague of mine was telling me about a manager at a client he works with saying over coffee how he feels that woman shouldn't be in IT because they're not as analytical, careful, too emotional, etc. 🙁
Then, frankly, that manager is an idiot.
There are men who "shouldn't be in IT because they're not as analytical, careful, too emotional, etc" as well.
Truthfully, I think a lot of it goes back to the old "there are certain things that are "boy" things, and certain things that are "girl" things, and never the twain shall cross." Which is BS. I'm not going to pull out the (arguably false) chestnut of "you can be anything you want to be" (after all, I can't be an astronaut, or a politician (I can't lie convincingly and I still have a soul,) or a professional baseball player) but there is no reason whatsoever that a woman can't be an IT person of any stripe (server ape to developer) other than people trying to steer them away from such positions because "those aren't jobs for girls." It's the same thing if a man wants to do something like daycare or nursing (although I'd bet there's still far less pushback from people for the guy.)
I recall seeing some comments elsewhere about the "Women in Technology" discussions, and why they're "sexist" and seemed to show that women need to be treated differently then men. Well the problem isn't that women need to be treated differently, it's that men need to STOP treating them differently.
February 22, 2017 at 6:26 am
Luis Cazares - Wednesday, February 22, 2017 6:21 AMUnrelated, but your comments reminded me of this blog post I read a couple days ago. I wonder what do these
as...people have in their minds.
https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber
I saw and read that yesterday, and believe you me, that was at the forefront of my mind when I was writing my post.
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