June 22, 2016 at 5:50 am
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?
The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
June 22, 2016 at 6:14 am
jasona.work (6/22/2016)
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
Posted my vote a couple of weeks ago but it has to be the most childish campaign I've ever witnessed. Nothing but scaremongering and name-calling. Neither side swayed my decision because neither side presented in a calm objective manner.
June 22, 2016 at 6:15 am
jasona.work (6/22/2016)
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
Well, speaking from the perspective of a science fiction fan...
The sooner we all get ourselves a world government, the better. I love the notion of a United Nations kind of government that is run similar to how the U.S. or E.U. governments work (of course, I'm biased toward the former) but also has us out exploring space and doing Other Stuff that doesn't include trying to kill each other or starting wars over one person's ego. I was quite excited with the E.U. first formed. I think there are things that need fixing, but given how long it took the U.S. to become the U.S. after the American Revolution, the E.U. growing pains are understandable.
Either way (Brexit or no Brexit), I do believe this is a major turning point in the E.U. I just hope it's a good turning point.
June 22, 2016 at 6:23 am
jasona.work (6/22/2016)
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
Contentious to many, but I would hope that you would get reasoned answers in this forum.
I'm a British expat, so any vote to leave would likely restrict my working options in future. So, being selfish, that's a bit of a downer, potentially.
I've been following the arguments and it seems that they are often following tried & tested rules of political chicanery, which (I believe) many more people can see through than a few years ago.
For example, picking on any weaknesses in what the opposition says, rather than focusing on the positives of your own campaign.
In summary, I'd sum it up as follows:
Remain campaigners are emphasizing the bad things that are likely to happen (taxes increasing, tariffs increasing, trade with Europe becoming more difficult)
Leave campaigners are emphasizing the additional controls that will be possible, particularly in terms of controlling immigration. Also the ability to control our own destiny without having rules imposed on us from Brussels.
My opinion is that there are so many variables that no one really knows what will happen if we leave. The safe vote is therefore to vote remain. It promises to be a close thing.
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- Martin Rees
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June 22, 2016 at 6:42 am
jasona.work (6/22/2016)
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
Tomorrow, yes.
Technically, it's not a vote as to whether we will stay or leave, but a giant opinion poll. There is nothing that says that what we vote for will actually happen. Thankfully.
What it has done is bring out the vilest campaign I have ever seen - so many lies, so much hatred, so much frothing at the mouth - that the whole thing is a farce. Unfortunately, though, it's a farce that has the very real capability to completely screw up this country for the medium term. Just look at the rate at which the economy is getting hammered just from its reaction to the idea that we're discussing the possibility of leaving the EU.
Yeah. No prizes for guessing which side of this one I'm going to vote for.
Thomas Rushton
blog: https://thelonedba.wordpress.com
June 22, 2016 at 7:08 am
jasona.work (6/22/2016)
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
While I'm not massively pro-EU, I'm hugely pro-UK. If the decision was about whether to join or not I would be voting No with bells on. However it's not about that. I've not seen a single argument from the Leave campaign that would convince me that life afterwards will be better. They've spouted torrents of rubbish about negotiating better trade deals on our own, fixing the (debatable) immigration issues and taking back sovereignty without once saying how they will do it. That, to me is just too big a risk to take with my country. Some of the material used in their campaign has been exaggerated, some of it mis-leading, some of it wrong and some of it outright lies. All I've heard from leave is incoherent rambling with occasional shouts of 'immigration', 'control' and 'millions of pounds' when peoples' attention has waned. The Remain campaign has been more measured but I'll admit they've had their moments.
There is no precedent for this but you can bet the farm there'll be example made of the first country to leave. There is not one organisation in the world that treats former members better than current members.
Just to be clear, I'm voting stay 😀
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June 22, 2016 at 7:49 am
It's absolutely hideous over here at the moment. I will also be voting Remain. The whole thing is so worrying.
June 22, 2016 at 7:53 am
Brandie Tarvin (6/22/2016)
jasona.work (6/22/2016)
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
Well, speaking from the perspective of a science fiction fan...
The sooner we all get ourselves a world government, the better. I love the notion of a United Nations kind of government that is run similar to how the U.S. or E.U. governments work (of course, I'm biased toward the former) but also has us out exploring space and doing Other Stuff that doesn't include trying to kill each other or starting wars over one person's ego. I was quite excited with the E.U. first formed. I think there are things that need fixing, but given how long it took the U.S. to become the U.S. after the American Revolution, the E.U. growing pains are understandable.
Either way (Brexit or no Brexit), I do believe this is a major turning point in the E.U. I just hope it's a good turning point.
I doubt whether reality will reflect the idealistic STNG world. The political nature of politics is just too...well...political.
June 22, 2016 at 7:56 am
BWFC (6/22/2016)
jasona.work (6/22/2016)
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
While I'm not massively pro-EU, I'm hugely pro-UK. If the decision was about whether to join or not I would be voting No with bells on. However it's not about that. I've not seen a single argument from the Leave campaign that would convince me that life afterwards will be better. They've spouted torrents of rubbish about negotiating better trade deals on our own, fixing the (debatable) immigration issues and taking back sovereignty without once saying how they will do it. That, to me is just too big a risk to take with my country. Some of the material used in their campaign has been exaggerated, some of it mis-leading, some of it wrong and some of it outright lies. All I've heard from leave is incoherent rambling with occasional shouts of 'immigration', 'control' and 'millions of pounds' when peoples' attention has waned. The Remain campaign has been more measured but I'll admit they've had their moments.
There is no precedent for this but you can bet the farm there'll be example made of the first country to leave. There is not one organisation in the world that treats former members better than current members.
Just to be clear, I'm voting stay 😀
Being an American and knowing what I see on TV about it, I find the perspective of UK citizens beyond interesting. Like so very many things, what's reported on the news doesn't reflect the views of actual people. A sincere thank you for sharing your views of the situation. I don't know how it'll turn out (not that they'll listen to the people anyway) but am very interested.
June 22, 2016 at 8:11 am
BWFC (6/22/2016)
jasona.work (6/22/2016)
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
While I'm not massively pro-EU, I'm hugely pro-UK. If the decision was about whether to join or not I would be voting No with bells on. However it's not about that. I've not seen a single argument from the Leave campaign that would convince me that life afterwards will be better. They've spouted torrents of rubbish about negotiating better trade deals on our own, fixing the (debatable) immigration issues and taking back sovereignty without once saying how they will do it. That, to me is just too big a risk to take with my country. Some of the material used in their campaign has been exaggerated, some of it mis-leading, some of it wrong and some of it outright lies. All I've heard from leave is incoherent rambling with occasional shouts of 'immigration', 'control' and 'millions of pounds' when peoples' attention has waned. The Remain campaign has been more measured but I'll admit they've had their moments.
There is no precedent for this but you can bet the farm there'll be example made of the first country to leave. There is not one organisation in the world that treats former members better than current members.
Just to be clear, I'm voting stay 😀
I'm voting in. I've read Lord of the Flies, I know what can happen when you're stuck on a small island with a bunch of pig-fixated public schoolboys.
Actually, this is a meme, and one of the better examples currently in circulation. Both sides are guilty of bombarding us with the most appalling BS, so much so that it's the one hard fact that many folk will take home with them - the politicians are lying through their teeth. Didn't we always suspect that this was the case? Now there isn't any doubt.
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June 22, 2016 at 8:22 am
Also voting 'remain', can't see as many benefits to the economy if we leave, and it looks like it would take a while to recover. I'd be very surprised if we did leave, regardless of the vote ratios.
Honestly I can't wait until this week is over. My Facebook feed is full of spiteful immature comments rather than rational debate. Most of these comments having no hard facts behind them and relying merely on fear-mongering and heavily biased media outlets. According to remain voters, we'll lose all our human rights if we leave. According to leave voters, we'll lose all our jobs if we stay. (None of these backed up by evidence.)
I saw a post yesterday where someone had claimed we must remain in the EU because the leader of ISIS wants us out. The whole thing would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Interestingly the 'remain' voters (majority left wing) are much more aggressive than the 'leave' voters (majority right wing), which for me (centrist-leaning to the left) is disappointing. There's a few people I'll be distancing myself from in future.
June 22, 2016 at 8:28 am
Honestly I can't wait until this week is over. My Facebook feed is full of spiteful immature comments rather than rational debate. Most of these comments having no hard facts behind them and relying merely on fear-mongering and heavily biased media outlets. According to remain voters, we'll lose all our human rights if we leave. According to leave voters, we'll lose all our jobs if we stay. (None of these backed up by evidence.)
I saw a post yesterday where someone had claimed we must remain in the EU because the leader of ISIS wants us out. The whole thing would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Hear hear. Although, I'm expecting to have to endure a week or so of the losing side complaining that they were robbed and wailing and gnashing their teeth about the future.
How to post a question to get the most help http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537
June 22, 2016 at 8:30 am
Ed Wagner (6/22/2016)
Brandie Tarvin (6/22/2016)
jasona.work (6/22/2016)
So, I'm curious, and I'm also tempted to spin this up in another topic as I suspect this is a contentious issue, what's everyone's feelings / opinions on the possibility of the "Brexit" as they're calling it?The upcoming (tomorrow, I believe?) vote as to whether Great Britain will stay or leave the EU.
I know we've got a good many members from that side of the Atlantic, so it will be interesting to hear the various viewpoints.
MODS / ADMINS: If you think this will be a bit to contentious, feel free to ban-hammer this post.
Well, speaking from the perspective of a science fiction fan...
The sooner we all get ourselves a world government, the better. I love the notion of a United Nations kind of government that is run similar to how the U.S. or E.U. governments work (of course, I'm biased toward the former) but also has us out exploring space and doing Other Stuff that doesn't include trying to kill each other or starting wars over one person's ego. I was quite excited with the E.U. first formed. I think there are things that need fixing, but given how long it took the U.S. to become the U.S. after the American Revolution, the E.U. growing pains are understandable.
Either way (Brexit or no Brexit), I do believe this is a major turning point in the E.U. I just hope it's a good turning point.
I doubt whether reality will reflect the idealistic STNG world. The political nature of politics is just too...well...political.
I was thinking about what such a world government would look like, using the US model as a general guide. For instance, how do you determine what sort of say each country gets (treating countries like US States?) If it's one vote per country, then the bigger countries will have a fit (can you imagine China (pop 1.36 billion) being happy having the same say as Montserrat (pop 5241)?) Just for giggles, I took the two countries with the highest populations (according to the CIA.gov World Factbook) and added up all the countries it would take to be able to field an equivalent voting block (presuming proportional sized blocks to population.) To equal China and India, would take the next 20 countries (skipping the EU as a "country") Looking at the list, I can't see even 1/4 of those countries working together...
I think the only way a world government can work, is for there to be an outside entity that the planet needs to deal with, whether that be humans who've colonized somewhere in the Solar system (Mars? Belters? Moon?) or someone from one of the nearby neighborhoods... 😎
June 22, 2016 at 8:31 am
BWFC (6/22/2016)
They've spouted torrents of rubbish about negotiating better trade deals on our own, fixing the (debatable) immigration issues and taking back sovereignty without once saying how they will do it.
Ummmm... Are we talking Brexit or U.S. elections here?
Cause that line could apply to almost ANY political contest, IMHO. ;-):-D
June 22, 2016 at 8:31 am
Brandie Tarvin (6/22/2016)
Well, speaking from the perspective of a science fiction fan...The sooner we all get ourselves a world government, the better.
Ha!
Being a different kind of science fiction fan, one of my horrors is the world government that will tell us all what to do, how to do it, when to do it, why to do it, where to do it. Followed by a long list of items that are proscribed, prohibited and just generally frowned upon (with the full weight of that world government, even frowns hurt).
As to the Brexit...
I thought the most interesting comment on it all that I saw was that there's much more reason for the UK to have common cause with Australia than there is for the UK to have common cause with the majority of the EU member states.
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