February 3, 2016 at 2:07 am
jonathan.crawford (2/2/2016)
Now it's not a db design class, but still, we should at least be attempting to teach students rather than handicap them, right? They'll screw up enough on their own...
Similar problems at a couple of the South African universities. Some of the grads I taught a couple weeks back were quite irate about the difference in what I taught (and could show) and what they were taught at university.
eg: "In and Exists are complicated operations, you don't need to know about them because they're almost never used". They never learnt subqueries or derived tables past ones in the SELECT clause either.
Part of it, I think, is that the universities don't have/can't find 'data platform' people to teach the courses, and so they're taught out of text books and pre-conceptions.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 3, 2016 at 5:00 am
That is like the time I took a Visual FoxPro course at a company that taught various software course.
The teacher was showing the older FoxPro way even though they should have been using the Visual way. Every time the teacher left the room people would ask me how to really do it as I had played with the software before going to the class I thought would instruct me.
February 3, 2016 at 5:11 am
SQLRNNR (2/1/2016)
GilaMonster (1/30/2016)
Ed Wagner (1/29/2016)
Is it really that much better than SSMS intellsense? I'm asking because I don't know; not trying to start a riot.Oh, hell, yes. SSMS intellisense wastes more time than it saves due to its habits of autocorrecting strange things. SQLPrompt can be configured to activate when you want, not automatically, has some actual intelligence and saves me huge amounts of time.
That's before we get to the auto-format script, auto-insert ;, auto-qualify columns, find invalid objects in the entire database, find unused parameters/variables in the current script, etc
+1 for each point raised by Gail
I kept turning it off because I type way faster than the stupid thing can react. And then it keeps misinterpreting my tabs and enters... Yeah, better to just give up on it and know the table / proc names.
February 3, 2016 at 5:13 am
Jo Pattyn (2/2/2016)
To the experts of DBCC TIMEWARPWhy can't system databases be restored "with move" like the others?
Example: RESTORE database model with move -> The system database cannot be moved by RESTORE
Your problem is that you expect RESTORE to work when the database has already BEEN restored. Just after before you thought about using DBCC TIMEWARP to do it.
Two identical things can only exist in the same space / time if they have congruent phase particles set to ALTER. I don't remember what parameter it is to set this, but I'm sure Microsoft's Black Book of Undocumented Functional Procedures has it listed somewhere.
February 3, 2016 at 6:19 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/3/2016)
Jo Pattyn (2/2/2016)
To the experts of DBCC TIMEWARPWhy can't system databases be restored "with move" like the others?
Example: RESTORE database model with move -> The system database cannot be moved by RESTORE
Your problem is that you expect RESTORE to work when the database has already BEEN restored. Just after before you thought about using DBCC TIMEWARP to do it.
Two identical things can only exist in the same space / time if they have congruent phase particles set to ALTER. I don't remember what parameter it is to set this, but I'm sure Microsoft's Black Book of Undocumented Functional Procedures has it listed somewhere.
If you have a copy of that book, I'd appreciate you posting it. 😉
February 3, 2016 at 7:41 am
I guess its Azure now.
Thanks for your input Brandie, got a possible workaround.
February 3, 2016 at 8:27 am
GilaMonster (2/3/2016)
jonathan.crawford (2/2/2016)
Now it's not a db design class, but still, we should at least be attempting to teach students rather than handicap them, right? They'll screw up enough on their own...Similar problems at a couple of the South African universities. Some of the grads I taught a couple weeks back were quite irate about the difference in what I taught (and could show) and what they were taught at university.
eg: "In and Exists are complicated operations, you don't need to know about them because they're almost never used". They never learnt subqueries or derived tables past ones in the SELECT clause either.
Part of it, I think, is that the universities don't have/can't find 'data platform' people to teach the courses, and so they're taught out of text books and pre-conceptions.
Same here with a grad from a UK uni (now the new one in the department). On a good day they can join two tables and put a "where" in there. I spend more time working on their code than they do. :hehe:
-------------------------------Posting Data Etiquette - Jeff Moden [/url]Smart way to ask a question
There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand (the world). There is no such thing as a dumb question. ― Carl Sagan
I would never join a club that would allow me as a member - Groucho Marx
February 3, 2016 at 8:35 am
Stuart Davies (2/3/2016)
GilaMonster (2/3/2016)
jonathan.crawford (2/2/2016)
Now it's not a db design class, but still, we should at least be attempting to teach students rather than handicap them, right? They'll screw up enough on their own...Similar problems at a couple of the South African universities. Some of the grads I taught a couple weeks back were quite irate about the difference in what I taught (and could show) and what they were taught at university.
eg: "In and Exists are complicated operations, you don't need to know about them because they're almost never used". They never learnt subqueries or derived tables past ones in the SELECT clause either.
Part of it, I think, is that the universities don't have/can't find 'data platform' people to teach the courses, and so they're taught out of text books and pre-conceptions.
Same here with a grad from a UK uni (now the new one in the department). On a good day they can join two tables and put a "where" in there. I spend more time working on their code than they do. :hehe:
I got very lucky with the professor I had for my first DB class.
She covered theory at a very high level as opposed to just teaching us how to "pound the keys".
When we did have to write queries, her method was to assign problems that required us to come up with a design of the tables and the queries to produce the desired results. Anything over and above that was a bonus.
We reviewed the entire classes solutions, compared the good and not so good, and learned a lot that has served me very well 20 years later.
Michael L John
If you assassinate a DBA, would you pull a trigger?
To properly post on a forum:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/61537/
February 3, 2016 at 8:50 am
Stuart Davies (2/3/2016)
GilaMonster (2/3/2016)
jonathan.crawford (2/2/2016)
Now it's not a db design class, but still, we should at least be attempting to teach students rather than handicap them, right? They'll screw up enough on their own...Similar problems at a couple of the South African universities. Some of the grads I taught a couple weeks back were quite irate about the difference in what I taught (and could show) and what they were taught at university.
eg: "In and Exists are complicated operations, you don't need to know about them because they're almost never used". They never learnt subqueries or derived tables past ones in the SELECT clause either.
Part of it, I think, is that the universities don't have/can't find 'data platform' people to teach the courses, and so they're taught out of text books and pre-conceptions.
Same here with a grad from a UK uni (now the new one in the department). On a good day they can join two tables and put a "where" in there. I spend more time working on their code than they do. :hehe:
Are you teaching/mentoring as you work on their code with them?
February 3, 2016 at 9:16 am
Ed Wagner (2/3/2016)
Stuart Davies (2/3/2016)
GilaMonster (2/3/2016)
jonathan.crawford (2/2/2016)
Now it's not a db design class, but still, we should at least be attempting to teach students rather than handicap them, right? They'll screw up enough on their own...Similar problems at a couple of the South African universities. Some of the grads I taught a couple weeks back were quite irate about the difference in what I taught (and could show) and what they were taught at university.
eg: "In and Exists are complicated operations, you don't need to know about them because they're almost never used". They never learnt subqueries or derived tables past ones in the SELECT clause either.
Part of it, I think, is that the universities don't have/can't find 'data platform' people to teach the courses, and so they're taught out of text books and pre-conceptions.
Same here with a grad from a UK uni (now the new one in the department). On a good day they can join two tables and put a "where" in there. I spend more time working on their code than they do. :hehe:
Are you teaching/mentoring as you work on their code with them?
Trying to, it depends if they are in a listening mood. I also try to back up the topic area under discussion with a couple of web links for reference, quite a few have been from here (well it's the first port of call usually)
ETA Around half the department are aware of the lack of knowledge, but the boss isn't and the boss laps up the particular flavour of bovine excrement that flows from my colleagues lips.
Behaviours like saying "That's what I meant to say" when a false hood is uncovered. Or, saying "Oh yes of course" when you ask "Do you know why your query isn't parsing?", then the next day asks for help with the same query which is failing at the point you were trying to make earlier. It is very, very trying on my patience.
OK rant over, back to the day job.
-------------------------------Posting Data Etiquette - Jeff Moden [/url]Smart way to ask a question
There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand (the world). There is no such thing as a dumb question. ― Carl Sagan
I would never join a club that would allow me as a member - Groucho Marx
February 3, 2016 at 10:40 am
Stuart Davies (2/3/2016)
Behaviours like saying "That's what I meant to say" when a false hood is uncovered. Or, saying "Oh yes of course" when you ask "Do you know why your query isn't parsing?", then the next day asks for help with the same query which is failing at the point you were trying to make earlier. It is very, very trying on my patience.OK rant over, back to the day job.
I don't it probably won't help and you likely know it already, but you aren't alone in this. Misery loves company, right? 😉
February 3, 2016 at 11:22 am
Ed Wagner (2/3/2016)
Stuart Davies (2/3/2016)
Behaviours like saying "That's what I meant to say" when a false hood is uncovered. Or, saying "Oh yes of course" when you ask "Do you know why your query isn't parsing?", then the next day asks for help with the same query which is failing at the point you were trying to make earlier. It is very, very trying on my patience.OK rant over, back to the day job.
I don't it probably won't help and you likely know it already, but you aren't alone in this. Misery loves company, right? 😉
Oh yes, I've this in many places, but this one takes the bullshitting your way in a job to a new level. The way they do it, it's probably an art form!
-------------------------------Posting Data Etiquette - Jeff Moden [/url]Smart way to ask a question
There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand (the world). There is no such thing as a dumb question. ― Carl Sagan
I would never join a club that would allow me as a member - Groucho Marx
February 3, 2016 at 6:59 pm
This got me by surprise. I'm not searching for jobs, but it got my attention because it was totally unexpected (but possibly logical).
February 4, 2016 at 1:28 am
Luis Cazares (2/3/2016)
This got me by surprise. I'm not searching for jobs, but it got my attention because it was totally unexpected (but possibly logical).
Stuart's BS guru would be a perfect fit for this BS job 😉
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
February 4, 2016 at 1:40 am
ChrisM@Work (2/4/2016)
Luis Cazares (2/3/2016)
This got me by surprise. I'm not searching for jobs, but it got my attention because it was totally unexpected (but possibly logical).Stuart's BS guru would be a perfect fit for this BS job 😉
Well that's a first for me - having TLOGS in the desirable skill section. Sounds great!
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