November 6, 2015 at 6:52 am
Ed Wagner (11/6/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (11/6/2015)
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2015)
Precisely. I couldn't have said it better myself. It's a bit like interviewing a mechanic. If they can't describe the difference between and open end and box wrench, they're not a mechanic. The simile here is that I'm taking mechanics out into the parking lot and asking them to point to a car and then to a pickup truck and they can't do it. It's that bad.
I hear ya. I just don't make the connection as easy I guess. I'm not a 10-year veteran of SQL mind you. I just have written thousands and thousands of lines of code in TSQL myself and have not used the alternatives you speak of yet as much as maybe you have. It's not ideally set in my mind and I don't think that's the same as not identifying a car from a truck as a mechanic. And I could go on the next 3 to 5 years not following the same as you may want and you toss out all my years of writing thousands of thousands of code for failing to give the alternatives to system time? That's a bit silly IMHO.
I think a better comparison would be not knowing the differences between DDL and DML when referencing the differences between a car and a truck. Surely the simple basics of a SELECT statement is also going to be a better comparison than alternatives to simple functions that is just not as widely used as say ALTER versus SELECT.
But how hard is it to come up with one function? The most basic function that everyone uses?
I save a lot of queries off so that I don't have to remember how to do things (like finding the text of a job step or searching procs and functions for a specific string). But a "SELECT TheOfficialMSFunction()" is one of the first things I learned.
And if I don't remember that one, shame on me.
I think that hits the nail on the head, Brandie. Getting the current datetime is T-SQL 101. It's a "Hello World" type of thing.
Yet it can reflect experience on working with high precision for datetime values or different timezones, or at least the curiosity to know they exist.
November 6, 2015 at 8:13 am
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (11/6/2015)
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2015)
Precisely. I couldn't have said it better myself. It's a bit like interviewing a mechanic. If they can't describe the difference between and open end and box wrench, they're not a mechanic. The simile here is that I'm taking mechanics out into the parking lot and asking them to point to a car and then to a pickup truck and they can't do it. It's that bad.
I hear ya. I just don't make the connection as easy I guess. I'm not a 10-year veteran of SQL mind you. I just have written thousands and thousands of lines of code in TSQL myself and have not used the alternatives you speak of yet as much as maybe you have. It's not ideally set in my mind and I don't think that's the same as not identifying a car from a truck as a mechanic. And I could go on the next 3 to 5 years not following the same as you may want and you toss out all my years of writing thousands of thousands of code for failing to give the alternatives to system time? That's a bit silly IMHO.
I think a better comparison would be not knowing the differences between DDL and DML when referencing the differences between a car and a truck. Surely the simple basics of a SELECT statement is also going to be a better comparison than alternatives to simple functions that is just not as widely used as say ALTER versus SELECT.
But how hard is it to come up with one function? The most basic function that everyone uses?
I save a lot of queries off so that I don't have to remember how to do things (like finding the text of a job step or searching procs and functions for a specific string). But a "SELECT TheOfficialMSFunction()" is one of the first things I learned.
And if I don't remember that one, shame on me.
Are we talking about people failing to know the basic function or people failing to know alternatives to the basic function? I thought the questions were to name the alternatives? Knowing the basic and knowing the alternatives are two different things. :w00t:
The question, simply put, is how do you get the system from the system using T-SQL. Jeff has said on numerous occasions that he had an individual who rated himself a 10 in SQL Server and Oracle couldn't answer this question. If you can say SELECT GETDATE(), great. If you can also name the other functions (I can't without looking them up since I rarely use them and I have been doing this for almost 20 years) even better. If you can explain their uses, more points for you. I know about these functions, and I know what they return, just not the actual function name. That's what BOL is for.
November 6, 2015 at 8:22 am
Lynn Pettis (11/6/2015)
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (11/6/2015)
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2015)
Precisely. I couldn't have said it better myself. It's a bit like interviewing a mechanic. If they can't describe the difference between and open end and box wrench, they're not a mechanic. The simile here is that I'm taking mechanics out into the parking lot and asking them to point to a car and then to a pickup truck and they can't do it. It's that bad.
I hear ya. I just don't make the connection as easy I guess. I'm not a 10-year veteran of SQL mind you. I just have written thousands and thousands of lines of code in TSQL myself and have not used the alternatives you speak of yet as much as maybe you have. It's not ideally set in my mind and I don't think that's the same as not identifying a car from a truck as a mechanic. And I could go on the next 3 to 5 years not following the same as you may want and you toss out all my years of writing thousands of thousands of code for failing to give the alternatives to system time? That's a bit silly IMHO.
I think a better comparison would be not knowing the differences between DDL and DML when referencing the differences between a car and a truck. Surely the simple basics of a SELECT statement is also going to be a better comparison than alternatives to simple functions that is just not as widely used as say ALTER versus SELECT.
But how hard is it to come up with one function? The most basic function that everyone uses?
I save a lot of queries off so that I don't have to remember how to do things (like finding the text of a job step or searching procs and functions for a specific string). But a "SELECT TheOfficialMSFunction()" is one of the first things I learned.
And if I don't remember that one, shame on me.
Are we talking about people failing to know the basic function or people failing to know alternatives to the basic function? I thought the questions were to name the alternatives? Knowing the basic and knowing the alternatives are two different things. :w00t:
The question, simply put, is how do you get the system from the system using T-SQL. Jeff has said on numerous occasions that he had an individual who rated himself a 10 in SQL Server and Oracle couldn't answer this question. If you can say SELECT GETDATE(), great. If you can also name the other functions (I can't without looking them up since I rarely use them and I have been doing this for almost 20 years) even better. If you can explain their uses, more points for you. I know about these functions, and I know what they return, just not the actual function name. That's what BOL is for.
Yeah, my bad. I thought it was alternatives to GETDATE(), which is what I rarely know offhand. I know they exist simply because of other programming experience, but I rarely use the alternatives such as SYSDATETIME() and so forth.
I would agree, knowing at least GETDATE() or it's existence is a given. I just didn't think that was the question because who in the hell is applying for a senior position and not know GETDATE()? I mean, when I first got into SQL, I used logic and typed SELECT DATE(), errored, SELECT CURRENTDATE(), errored, then eventually got to SELECT GETDATE(). I didn't know it offhand, but I knew it had to exist because it exists in pretty much every language. Through the help of IDE's I then found alternatives such as SELECT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP etc.
November 6, 2015 at 8:32 am
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
I would agree, knowing at least GETDATE() or it's existence is a given. I just didn't think that was the question because who in the hell is applying for a senior position and not know GETDATE()?
You'll be surprised of the amount of people that can't answer such simple questions and still claim several years of experience with that tool.
Once I interviewed someone that claimed to have experience on Oracle but not much on SQL Server. I told that person to answer based on Oracle (which was the main technology in his last claimed project) and couldn't come up with the basic functions either.
So many people lie on their resumes to get past recruiters so the ones that avoid to lie but are knowledgeable won't get to the interviews.
November 6, 2015 at 8:33 am
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
Lynn Pettis (11/6/2015)
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (11/6/2015)
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2015)
Precisely. I couldn't have said it better myself. It's a bit like interviewing a mechanic. If they can't describe the difference between and open end and box wrench, they're not a mechanic. The simile here is that I'm taking mechanics out into the parking lot and asking them to point to a car and then to a pickup truck and they can't do it. It's that bad.
I hear ya. I just don't make the connection as easy I guess. I'm not a 10-year veteran of SQL mind you. I just have written thousands and thousands of lines of code in TSQL myself and have not used the alternatives you speak of yet as much as maybe you have. It's not ideally set in my mind and I don't think that's the same as not identifying a car from a truck as a mechanic. And I could go on the next 3 to 5 years not following the same as you may want and you toss out all my years of writing thousands of thousands of code for failing to give the alternatives to system time? That's a bit silly IMHO.
I think a better comparison would be not knowing the differences between DDL and DML when referencing the differences between a car and a truck. Surely the simple basics of a SELECT statement is also going to be a better comparison than alternatives to simple functions that is just not as widely used as say ALTER versus SELECT.
But how hard is it to come up with one function? The most basic function that everyone uses?
I save a lot of queries off so that I don't have to remember how to do things (like finding the text of a job step or searching procs and functions for a specific string). But a "SELECT TheOfficialMSFunction()" is one of the first things I learned.
And if I don't remember that one, shame on me.
Are we talking about people failing to know the basic function or people failing to know alternatives to the basic function? I thought the questions were to name the alternatives? Knowing the basic and knowing the alternatives are two different things. :w00t:
The question, simply put, is how do you get the system from the system using T-SQL. Jeff has said on numerous occasions that he had an individual who rated himself a 10 in SQL Server and Oracle couldn't answer this question. If you can say SELECT GETDATE(), great. If you can also name the other functions (I can't without looking them up since I rarely use them and I have been doing this for almost 20 years) even better. If you can explain their uses, more points for you. I know about these functions, and I know what they return, just not the actual function name. That's what BOL is for.
Yeah, my bad. I thought it was alternatives to GETDATE(), which is what I rarely know offhand. I know they exist simply because of other programming experience, but I rarely use the alternatives such as SYSDATETIME() and so forth.
I would agree, knowing at least GETDATE() or it's existence is a given. I just didn't think that was the question because who in the hell is applying for a senior position and not know GETDATE()? I mean, when I first got into SQL, I used logic and typed SELECT DATE(), errored, SELECT CURRENTDATE(), errored, then eventually got to SELECT GETDATE(). I didn't know it offhand, but I knew it had to exist because it exists in pretty much every language. Through the help of IDE's I then found alternatives such as SELECT CURRENT_TIMESTAMP etc.
And that is the exact issue that gets discovered far too often. The person applying for the position doesn't even know GETDATE(). They actually have to refer to BOL for ANY function to get the current datetime. Pathetic!!!
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Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
November 6, 2015 at 9:39 am
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
who in the hell is applying for a senior position and not know GETDATE()?
Just 9 out of 10 applicants. Maybe higher.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
November 6, 2015 at 9:49 am
Ed Wagner (11/6/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (11/6/2015)
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
Jeff Moden (11/5/2015)
Precisely. I couldn't have said it better myself. It's a bit like interviewing a mechanic. If they can't describe the difference between and open end and box wrench, they're not a mechanic. The simile here is that I'm taking mechanics out into the parking lot and asking them to point to a car and then to a pickup truck and they can't do it. It's that bad.
I hear ya. I just don't make the connection as easy I guess. I'm not a 10-year veteran of SQL mind you. I just have written thousands and thousands of lines of code in TSQL myself and have not used the alternatives you speak of yet as much as maybe you have. It's not ideally set in my mind and I don't think that's the same as not identifying a car from a truck as a mechanic. And I could go on the next 3 to 5 years not following the same as you may want and you toss out all my years of writing thousands of thousands of code for failing to give the alternatives to system time? That's a bit silly IMHO.
I think a better comparison would be not knowing the differences between DDL and DML when referencing the differences between a car and a truck. Surely the simple basics of a SELECT statement is also going to be a better comparison than alternatives to simple functions that is just not as widely used as say ALTER versus SELECT.
But how hard is it to come up with one function? The most basic function that everyone uses?
I save a lot of queries off so that I don't have to remember how to do things (like finding the text of a job step or searching procs and functions for a specific string). But a "SELECT TheOfficialMSFunction()" is one of the first things I learned.
And if I don't remember that one, shame on me.
I think that hits the nail on the head, Brandie. Getting the current datetime is T-SQL 101. It's a "Hello World" type of thing.
The datetime is stored as milliseconds right? From some ambiguous epoch right?
Well then just let java figure it out.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
November 6, 2015 at 9:59 am
Luis Cazares (11/6/2015)
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
I would agree, knowing at least GETDATE() or it's existence is a given. I just didn't think that was the question because who in the hell is applying for a senior position and not know GETDATE()?
You'll be surprised of the amount of people that can't answer such simple questions and still claim several years of experience with that tool.
Once I interviewed someone that claimed to have experience on Oracle but not much on SQL Server. I told that person to answer based on Oracle (which was the main technology in his last claimed project) and couldn't come up with the basic functions either.
So many people lie on their resumes to get past recruiters so the ones that avoid to lie but are knowledgeable won't get to the interviews.
That is a big pet peeve of mine. And then people like that end up getting the job and tainting the industry. Let's say they get hired at a rate of 110k/yr (not knowing anything). When they leave the company is frequently opposed to paying that much, or even more, because that was a very knowledgeable (and senior level) person that was paid scads of money to not be able to fix their problems. If they couldn't do it, nobody can do it.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
November 6, 2015 at 10:13 am
WayneS (11/6/2015)
xsevensinzx (11/6/2015)
who in the hell is applying for a senior position and not know GETDATE()?Just 9 out of 10 applicants. Maybe higher.
That is just being spammed with non-applicable applicants, if the only thing the recruitment agency does is scanning the CV's for keywords then that can be more efficiently done in SQL:-P Find another agency!
😎
November 6, 2015 at 10:16 am
SQLRNNR (11/6/2015)
The datetime is stored as milliseconds right? From some ambiguous epoch right?
Ehemm, cough cough cough!
😎
November 6, 2015 at 10:21 am
On the current topic, a very favorite question: When do you use the function "WhatTimeIsIt()"?
Three options given
1) To get the current time (wrong)
2) You don't (correct)
3) Time for the applicant to leave (also often correct)
😎
November 6, 2015 at 10:47 am
Eirikur Eiriksson (11/6/2015)
On the current topic, a very favorite question: When do you use the function "WhatTimeIsIt()"?Three options given
1) To get the current time (wrong)
2) You don't (correct)
3) Time for the applicant to leave (also often correct)
😎
If the bbq ribs are coming off the grill, time to eat might be my answer.
Otherwise, isn't it the 42nd parameter for DBCC TimeWarp?
Which I think always returns 3.....
November 6, 2015 at 11:22 am
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/6/2015)
Eirikur Eiriksson (11/6/2015)
On the current topic, a very favorite question: When do you use the function "WhatTimeIsIt()"?Three options given
1) To get the current time (wrong)
2) You don't (correct)
3) Time for the applicant to leave (also often correct)
😎
If the bbq ribs are coming off the grill, time to eat might be my answer.
Otherwise, isn't it the 42nd parameter for DBCC TimeWarp?
Which I think always returns 3.....
When the elephant sits on your fence.
November 6, 2015 at 11:44 am
Brandie Tarvin (11/6/2015)
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/6/2015)
Eirikur Eiriksson (11/6/2015)
On the current topic, a very favorite question: When do you use the function "WhatTimeIsIt()"?Three options given
1) To get the current time (wrong)
2) You don't (correct)
3) Time for the applicant to leave (also often correct)
😎
If the bbq ribs are coming off the grill, time to eat might be my answer.
Otherwise, isn't it the 42nd parameter for DBCC TimeWarp?
Which I think always returns 3.....
When the elephant sits on your fence.
Except on Tuesdays in odd-numbered months of even-numbered years unless they're leap years.
November 6, 2015 at 11:57 am
Ed Wagner (11/6/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (11/6/2015)
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/6/2015)
Eirikur Eiriksson (11/6/2015)
On the current topic, a very favorite question: When do you use the function "WhatTimeIsIt()"?Three options given
1) To get the current time (wrong)
2) You don't (correct)
3) Time for the applicant to leave (also often correct)
😎
If the bbq ribs are coming off the grill, time to eat might be my answer.
Otherwise, isn't it the 42nd parameter for DBCC TimeWarp?
Which I think always returns 3.....
When the elephant sits on your fence.
Except on Tuesdays in odd-numbered months of even-numbered years unless they're leap years.
But if it is a leap year and not raining then it is the 43rd parameter.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
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