August 12, 2015 at 10:42 am
djj (8/12/2015)
jasona.work (8/12/2015)
Grant Fritchey (8/12/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (8/12/2015)
YAY! The forums are back!I was worried they'd be down all day.
Me too. I sent an email to RG support. Maybe someone did something.
RG support guy sees e-mail hollers across the room "Hey Sid! Unplug the coffee maker and plug the forum server back in, people've noticed!"
:hehe:
:hehe::hehe:
Or, recalling an actual incident: "Boss!!! Unplug that circular saw from that UPS! NOW!" :w00t:
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
August 12, 2015 at 10:46 am
Sean Lange (8/11/2015)
Alvin Ramard (8/11/2015)
Sean Lange (8/11/2015)
OMG. I just ran across this in a database from a 3rd party. There are actually 50 nvarchar(1) columns with names 1 - 50. :w00t:
ATTRIBUTE1 nvarchar(1)
ATTRIBUTE2 nvarchar(1)
.
.
.
ATTRIBUTE50 nvarchar(1)
And your point is? 😀
Depending on the intended use, it may not be so bad, but I see a few problem with the design, such as missing key and use of nvarchar.
It's presence does raise a few warning flags.
I guess I left off that they are also NOT NULL. Why make them variable length when they can't be more or less than 1 character? And repeating columns like that is just awful. Would make more sense to spin them off to another table.
Why do you think they can't be less? A zero length string is a perfectly good NVARCHAR(1) NOT NULL value.
Tom
August 12, 2015 at 11:03 am
GilaMonster (8/12/2015)
Lynn, I think that may have been unnecessarily antagonistic.
Probably, but so was his WTF in his OP and then the bashing because we didn't give him the answer he expected even though we did answer the question.
August 12, 2015 at 11:11 am
Lynn Pettis (8/12/2015)
GilaMonster (8/12/2015)
Lynn, I think that may have been unnecessarily antagonistic.Probably, but so was his WTF in his OP and then the bashing because we didn't give him the answer he expected even though we did answer the question.
Am I the only one that interpreted the WTF as a sign of desperation and confusion by a newbie?
I remember that when I started, it didn't seem evident that a concatenated NULL would turn the whole string to NULL.
August 12, 2015 at 11:14 am
Jack Corbett (8/11/2015)
Sean Lange (8/11/2015)
OMG. I just ran across this in a database from a 3rd party. There are actually 50 nvarchar(1) columns with names 1 - 50. :w00t:
ATTRIBUTE1 nvarchar(1)
ATTRIBUTE2 nvarchar(1)
.
.
.
ATTRIBUTE50 nvarchar(1)
Yuck. That's even worse than one of the 3rd-party apps I support. At least my app doesn't use unicode and variable length for short hings. My app has a little too much CHAR(78) type of columns.
I can't imagine a use of nvarchar(1). Are the values either 0 and 1 or 'Y' or 'N'? So it could be a bit column?
Allthough it's incredibly unlikely ever to happen in the real world, there is actually a case where NVARCHAR(1) NOT NULL works and is the most space-efficient way of doing the job, and NCHAR(1) NOT NULL just doesn't work, no matter what encoding tricks you try: it's the case when you have to be able to encode exactly 65537 distinct values. :Whistling:
Of course VARCHAR(2) NOT NULL gives you even more range, you can get 65793 distinct values out of that. :w00t:
If anyone ever comes up with a design that actually needs precisely 65537 distinct (non-null) values, or even any number between 65537 and 65793 my bet is that either they are doing it just to annoy (and therefore should be beaten, whether they sneeze or not) and the second best is that they are just plain crazy. :crazy:
Of course there may be an argument for case is where a zero length string is to be considered distinct from a few hundred distinct one character strings, and it seems simpler to hold the string that the business will recognise rather than having a fancy encoding of the zero length string as a single character that isn't currently used. That's going to be fairly unusual, but it seems a reasonable case for using NVARcHAR(1) NOT NULL. Or would storing the data actually required by the business count as the unforgivable sin of doing presentation in the database?
Tom
August 12, 2015 at 11:25 am
Luis Cazares (8/12/2015)
Lynn Pettis (8/12/2015)
GilaMonster (8/12/2015)
Lynn, I think that may have been unnecessarily antagonistic.Probably, but so was his WTF in his OP and then the bashing because we didn't give him the answer he expected even though we did answer the question.
Am I the only one that interpreted the WTF as a sign of desperation and confusion by a newbie?
That's actually how I read it also.
August 12, 2015 at 11:30 am
Luis Cazares (8/12/2015)
Lynn Pettis (8/12/2015)
GilaMonster (8/12/2015)
Lynn, I think that may have been unnecessarily antagonistic.Probably, but so was his WTF in his OP and then the bashing because we didn't give him the answer he expected even though we did answer the question.
Am I the only one that interpreted the WTF as a sign of desperation and confusion by a newbie?
I remember that when I started, it didn't seem evident that a concatenated NULL would turn the whole string to NULL.
Nope. I thought his WTF was directed entirely at the PRINT behavior and was a sign of frustration. That is part of the reason for the jokes about it.
Whip This Frigidaire
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
August 12, 2015 at 11:31 am
Brandie Tarvin (8/12/2015)
Luis Cazares (8/12/2015)
Lynn Pettis (8/12/2015)
GilaMonster (8/12/2015)
Lynn, I think that may have been unnecessarily antagonistic.Probably, but so was his WTF in his OP and then the bashing because we didn't give him the answer he expected even though we did answer the question.
Am I the only one that interpreted the WTF as a sign of desperation and confusion by a newbie?
That's actually how I read it also.
So did I. It made me wonder if he was asking us to justify the behavior. Yeah, right, as if we wrote SQL Server. :w00t:
August 12, 2015 at 11:31 am
SQLRNNR (8/12/2015)
Luis Cazares (8/12/2015)
Lynn Pettis (8/12/2015)
GilaMonster (8/12/2015)
Lynn, I think that may have been unnecessarily antagonistic.Probably, but so was his WTF in his OP and then the bashing because we didn't give him the answer he expected even though we did answer the question.
Am I the only one that interpreted the WTF as a sign of desperation and confusion by a newbie?
I remember that when I started, it didn't seem evident that a concatenated NULL would turn the whole string to NULL.
Nope. I thought his WTF was directed entirely at the PRINT behavior and was a sign of frustration. That is part of the reason for the jokes about it.
Whip This Frigidaire
Wow, that's fantastic.
August 12, 2015 at 11:32 am
Luis Cazares (8/12/2015)
Lynn Pettis (8/12/2015)
GilaMonster (8/12/2015)
Lynn, I think that may have been unnecessarily antagonistic.Probably, but so was his WTF in his OP and then the bashing because we didn't give him the answer he expected even though we did answer the question.
Am I the only one that interpreted the WTF as a sign of desperation and confusion by a newbie?
I remember that when I started, it didn't seem evident that a concatenated NULL would turn the whole string to NULL.
I interpreted it as a WTF. The only variable he checked was the first, stated in his OP. Why didn't he check all the variables to see what those values were? That would have been the first thing I would have done. Then I would have tested concatenating each variable one at a time to see what happened. Simple problem solving.
Lookup concatenating values in Books Online, pretty sure you will find that concatenating a value with a null returns a null unless you have turned that option off.
I may just be an old curmudgeon but it seems like many, not all, of the younger generation wants everything handed to them, no desire to learn or work hard for the things many of us have worked hard to attain. Yes, I have learned much here at the feet of people like Jeff, Gail, Steve, Wayne, Jason, Jack, Ed, Eirikur, Sean, and many others. But I strive to learn more on my own as well, build on what others have taught me.
I try very hard to be respectful and professional and help people even if it seems like they don't want the help; but I am not going to apologize any more when someone pushes my buttons and I get a bit antagonistic in response.
August 12, 2015 at 11:48 am
Ed Wagner (8/11/2015)
It is good to hear that Baan is no more, but I'm not surprised. I guess their miserable product finally caught up with them.
It died (but only in name) a long time ago. Baan were faking their revenue reports and were caught at it in 1998, with the result that their stock price took a dive. By 2000 they were so beset by lawsuits and financial difficulties arising from a long period of declining revenue hat they sold the company to Invensys; 3 years later Invensys sold Baan to SSAG for less than 20% of what they paid for it. SSAG changed the software's name from whatever it the was to SSA ERP LN, and just under 6 years later SSAG was taken over by Infor Global Solutions who changed it to Infor10 ERP Ln. I think there were at least two more name changes somewhere along the line, but have no idea when or by whom.
Anyway, it's apparently much the same miserable over-complicated ERP junk as it always was; and from running with 7 different database systems it's down to running with only 4. So, for example, MySQL people no longer have to cope with it.
Tom
August 12, 2015 at 11:56 am
< Rant >
I don't know about others but I am really tired of people thinking that using vulgarity is appropriate in a professional environment and this is a professional environment and it bothers me more and more as I get older. Enough of the WT*.
< /Rant>
August 12, 2015 at 11:59 am
TomThomson (8/12/2015)
Ed Wagner (8/11/2015)
It is good to hear that Baan is no more, but I'm not surprised. I guess their miserable product finally caught up with them.It died (but only in name) a long time ago. Baan were faking their revenue reports and were caught at it in 1998, with the result that their stock price took a dive. By 2000 they were so beset by lawsuits and financial difficulties arising from a long period of declining revenue hat they sold the company to Invensys; 3 years later Invensys sold Baan to SSAG for less than 20% of what they paid for it. SSAG changed the software's name from whatever it the was to SSA ERP LN, and just under 6 years later SSAG was taken over by Infor Global Solutions who changed it to Infor10 ERP Ln. I think there were at least two more name changes somewhere along the line, but have no idea when or by whom.
Anyway, it's apparently much the same miserable over-complicated ERP junk as it always was; and from running with 7 different database systems it's down to running with only 4. So, for example, MySQL people no longer have to cope with it.
Thanks for the history, Tom. To be quite honest, it's music to my ears (or, since I'm reading it, my eyes) to know that it died. It's unfortunate that the product lives on under a different name. It was, by far, the most difficult system I've ever worked with in my life. Everything from table design to interface design to writing code to releasing updates - they were all unnecessarily complicated and seriously under-powered. It short, it sucked and it's good to know what happened to it.
August 12, 2015 at 12:05 pm
Lynn Pettis (8/12/2015)
I have learned much here at the feet of people like Jeff, Gail, Steve, Wayne, Jason, Jack, Ed, Eirikur, Sean, and many others. But I strive to learn more on my own as well, build on what others have taught me.
Aw shucks. I appreciate it. You were one of the first to teach me on this forum. And we all should strive to continue to learn. That's at least something SSC does for me - help me learn.
I try very hard to be respectful and professional and help people even if it seems like they don't want the help; but I am not going to apologize any more when someone pushes my buttons and I get a bit antagonistic in response.
But you are Saint Lynn. Maybe we have rubbed off on you too much? Then again, I can't say that I blame you. I know the feeling!
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
August 12, 2015 at 12:07 pm
Lynn Pettis (8/12/2015)
< Rant >I don't know about others but I am really tired of people thinking that using vulgarity is appropriate in a professional environment and this is a professional environment and it bothers me more and more as I get older. Enough of the WT*.
< /Rant>
Was there another one today?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
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