March 25, 2015 at 2:28 am
spaghettidba (3/24/2015)
Part of what I'm about to post has already been Said in a Twitter conversation between Brandie, Sioban and myself yesterday. I'm sorry if my frankness is going to hit a nerve, but I think it has be said.
What I find disturbing is the assumption that men are sexist and if they say they don't do that it's just "not-meing". Isn't that sexism? Is it more acceptable just because we're privileged males in a man's world? I don't think so.
As a man, I've always tried my best to treat all people in the same way regardless of gender. Whether I succeeded or failed, I've always tried my best. I'm aware that there some bad things that we do without noticing and I acknowledge that the problem exists.
I have two little girls (one is 5, the other one's birth is expected in two weeks or so) and I know that they will have to live in a world where men are privileged. I try to teach Giulia (my 5yo) that she can do everything that males do, that she has the same abilities and the same possibilities. I teach her that there are no girls' games and no boys' games, no men's job and no women's job.
Only education can change what children would do without adults' intervention: be sexist. Children are incredibly sexist: girls tend to play with girls only, boys tend to play with boys only. When she complains about "males" taking away her toys or ruining her games at school, I always tell her that there is no "males": it's Riccardo, it's Giorgio or whoever did the thing. It's an endless fight with wrong examples in the society and a continuous bombing from TV with its stereotyped models in advertising and cartoons.
My wife and I are working hard on our part: we're trying to raise our children with the least gender bias possible. If I say that I'm not sexist, I'm not expecting anyone to believe me based on my own word only, but I'm not going to accept to be deprived of the benefit of doubt because man = male chauvinist pig.
If any of you here says "I don't do that", it's not "not-meing" in my opinion and I'm going to believe you until proven otherwise. People here has proven themselves exceptional in many ways and I'll keep considering everybody above the average in this regard as well.
Well said. On numerous occassions, I've had to attend workshops/lectures at work regarding equality, and whilst I find it necessary that there should be open discussion on this very important topic, I find these workshops usually start off by assuming that everyone is biased and they are going to teach us how not to be. They can end up doing more harm than good as people are offended by the assumption that they don't know, for example, that calling someone a c*** is offensive and unacceptable. I'm not the only one who has felt this.
For myself, I grew up in an area where religious bigitory was the norm, and mental health issues seen as a sign of weakness. From an early age I was determined not to be like that. I couldn't (and still don't) understand why I should dislike someone who chooses to worship in a different way, or think that someone who is coping with clinical depression on top of a less than ideal home life is somehow to be pitied and seen as weak. I truly don't get it, but I have seen it.
How we go about educating those who need it is not something I have the answer to, but teaching your kids is, in my opinion, one of the best things you can do. It gives hope for the future, because I think there seems to have been a culture developed of late that thinks that bias, be it on sexual orientation, gender, reglious beliefs, colour of skin..etc is a thing of the past, and doesn't need to be talked about, but it does, but starting off assuming that everyone is biased is not useful, and too often you find that those who are don't listen to the message, as they are so entrenched in their beliefs that nothing can touch them.
I really don't know what the answer is. I wish I did. I've seen to many examples of bias in my life already, and it sickens me. I was once told that women couldn't amount to anything as they were 'too emotional'. How do you fight something like that?
Bex
March 25, 2015 at 5:34 am
Bex (3/25/2015)
spaghettidba (3/24/2015)
Part of what I'm about to post has already been Said in a Twitter conversation between Brandie, Sioban and myself yesterday. I'm sorry if my frankness is going to hit a nerve, but I think it has be said.
What I find disturbing is the assumption that men are sexist and if they say they don't do that it's just "not-meing". Isn't that sexism? Is it more acceptable just because we're privileged males in a man's world? I don't think so.
As a man, I've always tried my best to treat all people in the same way regardless of gender. Whether I succeeded or failed, I've always tried my best. I'm aware that there some bad things that we do without noticing and I acknowledge that the problem exists.
I have two little girls (one is 5, the other one's birth is expected in two weeks or so) and I know that they will have to live in a world where men are privileged. I try to teach Giulia (my 5yo) that she can do everything that males do, that she has the same abilities and the same possibilities. I teach her that there are no girls' games and no boys' games, no men's job and no women's job.
Only education can change what children would do without adults' intervention: be sexist. Children are incredibly sexist: girls tend to play with girls only, boys tend to play with boys only. When she complains about "males" taking away her toys or ruining her games at school, I always tell her that there is no "males": it's Riccardo, it's Giorgio or whoever did the thing. It's an endless fight with wrong examples in the society and a continuous bombing from TV with its stereotyped models in advertising and cartoons.
My wife and I are working hard on our part: we're trying to raise our children with the least gender bias possible. If I say that I'm not sexist, I'm not expecting anyone to believe me based on my own word only, but I'm not going to accept to be deprived of the benefit of doubt because man = male chauvinist pig.
If any of you here says "I don't do that", it's not "not-meing" in my opinion and I'm going to believe you until proven otherwise. People here has proven themselves exceptional in many ways and I'll keep considering everybody above the average in this regard as well.
Well said. On numerous occassions, I've had to attend workshops/lectures at work regarding equality, and whilst I find it necessary that there should be open discussion on this very important topic, I find these workshops usually start off by assuming that everyone is biased and they are going to teach us how not to be. They can end up doing more harm than good as people are offended by the assumption that they don't know, for example, that calling someone a c*** is offensive and unacceptable. I'm not the only one who has felt this.
For myself, I grew up in an area where religious bigitory was the norm, and mental health issues seen as a sign of weakness. From an early age I was determined not to be like that. I couldn't (and still don't) understand why I should dislike someone who chooses to worship in a different way, or think that someone who is coping with clinical depression on top of a less than ideal home life is somehow to be pitied and seen as weak. I truly don't get it, but I have seen it.
How we go about educating those who need it is not something I have the answer to, but teaching your kids is, in my opinion, one of the best things you can do. It gives hope for the future, because I think there seems to have been a culture developed of late that thinks that bias, be it on sexual orientation, gender, reglious beliefs, colour of skin..etc is a thing of the past, and doesn't need to be talked about, but it does, but starting off assuming that everyone is biased is not useful, and too often you find that those who are don't listen to the message, as they are so entrenched in their beliefs that nothing can touch them.
I really don't know what the answer is. I wish I did. I've seen to many examples of bias in my life already, and it sickens me. I was once told that women couldn't amount to anything as they were 'too emotional'. How do you fight something like that?
Bex
I agree that teaching your children is one of the best things you can do, but I also feel it goes beyond that: It's your absolute responsibility to do so. Don't leave it to the schools or society to teach them character, but be a parent and teach them yourselves. If you let society do it, look at the world around you or listen to the news and see if you're going to be happy with the result. As a father, the responsibility for is mine.
In any conversation, the assumption that everyone's guilty and needs to be fixed sets the tone right from the start. I find it's not a healthy tone and discourages real conversation. After all, if someone says something and then gets interrogated with a battery of questions and beaten up for everything they say, it actively discourages others from speaking up. Thus ends the real conversation.
March 25, 2015 at 5:58 am
spaghettidba (3/24/2015)
What I find disturbing is the assumption that men are sexist and if they say they don't do that it's just "not-meing".
That's certainly not what I said anywhere in the post you quoted. (yes, there are some that assume that all men are evil but there are idiots everywhere)
I said that the 'I've never seen that' reaction is unproductive. Brandie said the same thing. The 'I'm not like that' is similar.
If I was talking about how many times my house had been broken into, no one would start their reply with 'Well I don't rob houses...'
Once more with feeling...
Please, neither Brandie nor I are accusing anyone here of anything. We're saying 'This kind of thing happens.'
I'm not trying to bash anyone specifically
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 25, 2015 at 6:03 am
GilaMonster (3/25/2015)
I said that the 'I've never seen that' reaction is unproductive. Brandie said the same thing. The 'I'm not like that' is similar.
If I was talking about how many times my house had been broken into, no one would start their reply with 'Well I don't rob houses...'
Touche on both points.
GilaMonster (3/25/2015)
Once more with feeling...Please, neither Brandie nor I are accusing anyone here of anything. We're saying 'This kind of thing happens.'
I'm not trying to bash anyone specifically
Heard. Thank you.
March 25, 2015 at 8:45 am
GilaMonster (3/25/2015)
spaghettidba (3/24/2015)
What I find disturbing is the assumption that men are sexist and if they say they don't do that it's just "not-meing".That's certainly not what I said anywhere in the post you quoted. (yes, there are some that assume that all men are evil but there are idiots everywhere)
I said that the 'I've never seen that' reaction is unproductive. Brandie said the same thing. The 'I'm not like that' is similar.
If I was talking about how many times my house had been broken into, no one would start their reply with 'Well I don't rob houses...'
Maybe quoting your post was inappropriate and I apologize for that. It just happened to be the last post on the topic.
The accusation "man = male chauvinist" is very common, that's why everybody wants to say they're not like that.
At least once in his life, almost every man has been accused (implicitly or explicitly) of being sexist, just because some men really are. If somebody wants to say that he's not like that, please let him say it: it may be unproductive, but I can understand the urge to say it.
I have been accused in the past of being sexist.
On the other hand, nobody ever accused me of robbing houses to date.
Once more with feeling...
Please, neither Brandie nor I are accusing anyone here of anything. We're saying 'This kind of thing happens.'
I'm not trying to bash anyone specifically
Got it.
-- Gianluca Sartori
March 25, 2015 at 12:43 pm
spaghettidba (3/25/2015)
The accusation "man = male chauvinist" is very common, that's why everybody wants to say they're not like that.
Annoyingly so, along with the growing accusation "feminist = man hater". Both unproductive, useless generalisations. I don't tend to get very deep into these sorts of arguments (the mud slinging is tiresome), but I would venture a guess that people who make such generalisations aren't interested in solving any problems
On the other hand, nobody ever accused me of robbing houses to date.
Of course not. Someone of your height would make a terrible cat burgler. 😀
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 25, 2015 at 5:07 pm
GilaMonster (3/25/2015)
spaghettidba (3/25/2015)
The accusation "man = male chauvinist" is very common, that's why everybody wants to say they're not like that.Annoyingly so, along with the growing accusation "feminist = man hater". Both unproductive, useless generalisations. I don't tend to get very deep into these sorts of arguments (the mud slinging is tiresome), but I would venture a guess that people who make such generalisations aren't interested in solving any problems
On the other hand, nobody ever accused me of robbing houses to date.
Of course not. Someone of your height would make a terrible cat burgler. 😀
Is there such a thing as a giraffe burglar? Would that be appropriate for Gianluca?
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
March 25, 2015 at 5:21 pm
GilaMonster (3/25/2015)
spaghettidba (3/25/2015)
The accusation "man = male chauvinist" is very common, that's why everybody wants to say they're not like that.Annoyingly so, along with the growing accusation "feminist = man hater". Both unproductive, useless generalisations. I don't tend to get very deep into these sorts of arguments (the mud slinging is tiresome), but I would venture a guess that people who make such generalisations aren't interested in solving any problems
On the other hand, nobody ever accused me of robbing houses to date.
Of course not. Someone of your height would make a terrible cat burgler. 😀
Hey are you accusing all short people of being cat burglars? I take offense at the generalization 😉
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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March 25, 2015 at 6:56 pm
Jack Corbett (3/25/2015)
GilaMonster (3/25/2015)
spaghettidba (3/25/2015)
The accusation "man = male chauvinist" is very common, that's why everybody wants to say they're not like that.Annoyingly so, along with the growing accusation "feminist = man hater". Both unproductive, useless generalisations. I don't tend to get very deep into these sorts of arguments (the mud slinging is tiresome), but I would venture a guess that people who make such generalisations aren't interested in solving any problems
On the other hand, nobody ever accused me of robbing houses to date.
Of course not. Someone of your height would make a terrible cat burgler. 😀
Hey are you accusing all short people of being cat burglars? I take offense at the generalization 😉
Why no Jack. If Gianluca is a cat burglar, you'd be a mouse burglar.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
March 26, 2015 at 2:16 am
WayneS (3/25/2015)
Jack Corbett (3/25/2015)
GilaMonster (3/25/2015)
spaghettidba (3/25/2015)
The accusation "man = male chauvinist" is very common, that's why everybody wants to say they're not like that.Annoyingly so, along with the growing accusation "feminist = man hater". Both unproductive, useless generalisations. I don't tend to get very deep into these sorts of arguments (the mud slinging is tiresome), but I would venture a guess that people who make such generalisations aren't interested in solving any problems
On the other hand, nobody ever accused me of robbing houses to date.
Of course not. Someone of your height would make a terrible cat burgler. 😀
Hey are you accusing all short people of being cat burglars? I take offense at the generalization 😉
Why no Jack. If Gianluca is a cat burglar, you'd be a mouse burglar.
Badaboem-tsssss
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
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March 26, 2015 at 3:17 am
GilaMonster (3/25/2015)
spaghettidba (3/25/2015)
The accusation "man = male chauvinist" is very common, that's why everybody wants to say they're not like that.Annoyingly so, along with the growing accusation "feminist = man hater". Both unproductive, useless generalisations. I don't tend to get very deep into these sorts of arguments (the mud slinging is tiresome), but I would venture a guess that people who make such generalisations aren't interested in solving any problems
Well said!
On the other hand, nobody ever accused me of robbing houses to date.
Of course not. Someone of your height would make a terrible cat burgler. 😀
LOOOOL!!! 😀
-- Gianluca Sartori
March 26, 2015 at 10:16 am
Where’s a plan showing huge Estimated Operator Costs when you need one? Have a look at the estimated plan for this conditional query i.e. the IF as well as the SELECT. You probably don’t want to execute the query in prod and you don’t need to – you only see the skew in the estimated plan. The explanation is surprisingly simple 😉
IF EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM (VALUES(CAST(1 AS BIT))) d (n))
SELECT 'Anything' FROM sys.columns a
FULL OUTER JOIN sys.columns b
ON a.[precision] = b.[precision]
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March 26, 2015 at 10:37 am
I've bee trying to post about the gender bias, but every time I get distracted.
I find it really absurd that it happens. Why would you expect someone to be better or worse based on sex, skin color, religion or anything else? That has nothing to do with intelligence, knowledge or capabilities. Even so, I know it happens. I've seen it at work, with my friends, on the internet.
However, what amazes me more is that gender bias doesn't come only from men. It comes from women with power that think they're different and have struggled more than another woman just because she's more feminin/good looking. And it also comes from "affected women" that use it as a perfect excuse to avoid trying harder. They will claim that they can't achieve anything because they're females. They'll define themselves as feminists but will hope to have that excuse forever. I find this something irrational.
I want to be clear that I'm not pointing at anyone in here. I'm just noting something that happens.
By the way, about the article that Gail posted where they mention a comic book cover. I found that discussion out of place. Feminists reacted to an image showing violence against women. The truth is that it was a violent psychopath against a specific girl, who used that tragedy to become better. But nobody complained about The Joker killing Robin or treating Harley Quinn as garbage all the time (which is closer to most domestic violence cases). These protests are part of the reasons that some people won't treat feminists seriously, IMHO.
March 26, 2015 at 6:08 pm
ChrisM@Work (3/26/2015)
Where’s a plan showing huge Estimated Operator Costs when you need one? Have a look at the estimated plan for this conditional query i.e. the IF as well as the SELECT. You probably don’t want to execute the query in prod and you don’t need to – you only see the skew in the estimated plan. The explanation is surprisingly simple 😉
IF EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM (VALUES(CAST(1 AS BIT))) d (n))SELECT 'Anything' FROM sys.columns a
FULL OUTER JOIN sys.columns b
ON a.[precision] = b.[precision]
Quite a bizarre estimated plan to be sure. Facts:
- The issue goes away if you remove the IF
- The issue doesn't show in the actual execution plan
- The query itself runs reasonably quickly.
Edit: This query shows the same thing:
IF EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM (VALUES(CAST(1 AS BIT))) d (n))
SELECT * FROM sys.all_columns;
Which means that it has something to do with the 100% cost calculated for the Constant Scan generated for the IF. The remainder of the query must be getting its costs rated against that.
Add this to the list of SQL Developer interviewee questions...
My thought question: Have you ever been told that your query runs too fast?
My advice:
INDEXing a poor-performing query is like putting sugar on cat food. Yeah, it probably tastes better but are you sure you want to eat it?
The path of least resistance can be a slippery slope. Take care that fixing your fixes of fixes doesn't snowball and end up costing you more than fixing the root cause would have in the first place.
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March 26, 2015 at 6:32 pm
dwain.c (3/26/2015)
ChrisM@Work (3/26/2015)
Where’s a plan showing huge Estimated Operator Costs when you need one? Have a look at the estimated plan for this conditional query i.e. the IF as well as the SELECT. You probably don’t want to execute the query in prod and you don’t need to – you only see the skew in the estimated plan. The explanation is surprisingly simple 😉
IF EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM (VALUES(CAST(1 AS BIT))) d (n))SELECT 'Anything' FROM sys.columns a
FULL OUTER JOIN sys.columns b
ON a.[precision] = b.[precision]
Quite a bizarre estimated plan to be sure. Facts:
- The issue goes away if you remove the IF
- The issue doesn't show in the actual execution plan
- The query itself runs reasonably quickly.
Edit: This query shows the same thing:
IF EXISTS (SELECT 1 FROM (VALUES(CAST(1 AS BIT))) d (n))
SELECT * FROM sys.all_columns;
Which means that it has something to do with the 100% cost calculated for the Constant Scan generated for the IF. The remainder of the query must be getting its costs rated against that.
Add this to the list of SQL Developer interviewee questions...
Interesting indeed.
I generally "manufacture" a plan if I really want to demonstrate something out of whack and quite get it to show with data or fascinating queries. It is all just xml afterall.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
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