February 5, 2015 at 8:40 am
Ed Wagner (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
This is a serious issue, especially in the technology world. Women are forced to play roles both in the interview and then at the job after being hiring. It's more than "working twice as hard to get to the same place as a man." When we try to knowledge-share, we get second guessed. When we crow our achievements, we're told we're being arrogant or noisy. When we go to lead, we're often told we're being bossy.
I must be weird or something, as I base technical competency on...wait for it...technical competency.
Whether someone can be taught is about attitude and that can get tricky. The "good fit" part can be very tricky.
Technical competency is easy.
Easy? I don't know. Benevolent sexism is still a strong force that many people (both male and female) don't seem to be aware of until it's pointed out to them.
A few cases in point.
http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/conferences/2013-w50-research-symposium/Documents/glick.pdf
http://guardianlv.com/2014/07/sexism-in-the-workplace-no-escape/[/url]
February 5, 2015 at 8:42 am
Oh, and let's not forget where it all starts.
February 5, 2015 at 8:55 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
Oh, and let's not forget where it all starts.
My cousin's daughter once said 'I know its a boys' job, but I want to be a scientist when I grow up'. She's 6. One of her godmothers is heavily involved in STEM education and her mum teaches English and Maths to college students on vocational courses so we're pretty sure she didn't get that at home. My wife's a physics teacher and she nearly spilled her wine when she heard that remark. We're all determined now that she grows up to see science as being for every one.
How to post a question to get the most help http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537
February 5, 2015 at 9:08 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
Ed Wagner (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
This is a serious issue, especially in the technology world. Women are forced to play roles both in the interview and then at the job after being hiring. It's more than "working twice as hard to get to the same place as a man." When we try to knowledge-share, we get second guessed. When we crow our achievements, we're told we're being arrogant or noisy. When we go to lead, we're often told we're being bossy.
I must be weird or something, as I base technical competency on...wait for it...technical competency.
Whether someone can be taught is about attitude and that can get tricky. The "good fit" part can be very tricky.
Technical competency is easy.
Easy? I don't know. Benevolent sexism is still a strong force that many people (both male and female) don't seem to be aware of until it's pointed out to them.
A few cases in point.
http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/conferences/2013-w50-research-symposium/Documents/glick.pdf
http://guardianlv.com/2014/07/sexism-in-the-workplace-no-escape/[/url]
Please hear what I'm saying - I assess a person's technical competency on technical competency and nothing else. I don't really care if you're male or female, what color your skin is, what your age is or if you have hair on your head.
Are the issues present in the world? Yes. With me? No.
February 5, 2015 at 9:16 am
Ed Wagner (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
Ed Wagner (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
This is a serious issue, especially in the technology world. Women are forced to play roles both in the interview and then at the job after being hiring. It's more than "working twice as hard to get to the same place as a man." When we try to knowledge-share, we get second guessed. When we crow our achievements, we're told we're being arrogant or noisy. When we go to lead, we're often told we're being bossy.
I must be weird or something, as I base technical competency on...wait for it...technical competency.
Whether someone can be taught is about attitude and that can get tricky. The "good fit" part can be very tricky.
Technical competency is easy.
Easy? I don't know. Benevolent sexism is still a strong force that many people (both male and female) don't seem to be aware of until it's pointed out to them.
A few cases in point.
http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/conferences/2013-w50-research-symposium/Documents/glick.pdf
http://guardianlv.com/2014/07/sexism-in-the-workplace-no-escape/[/url]
Please hear what I'm saying - I assess a person's technical competency on technical competency and nothing else. I don't really care if you're male or female, what color your skin is, what your age is or if you have hair on your head.
Are the issues present in the world? Yes. With me? No.
There are plenty of subtle ways these things can affect even judging technical competency, even by people who want to not take any of that into account. It is a societal background noise. It affects both those doing the interviewing and those being interviewed. I'm not saying anyone in particular does it on purpose, I know many people think they're completely above it, but I don't know that anyone is or can be in the societies we live in without being aware of it all the time.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
February 5, 2015 at 9:24 am
Sioban Krzywicki (2/5/2015)
Ed Wagner (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
Ed Wagner (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
This is a serious issue, especially in the technology world. Women are forced to play roles both in the interview and then at the job after being hiring. It's more than "working twice as hard to get to the same place as a man." When we try to knowledge-share, we get second guessed. When we crow our achievements, we're told we're being arrogant or noisy. When we go to lead, we're often told we're being bossy.
I must be weird or something, as I base technical competency on...wait for it...technical competency.
Whether someone can be taught is about attitude and that can get tricky. The "good fit" part can be very tricky.
Technical competency is easy.
Easy? I don't know. Benevolent sexism is still a strong force that many people (both male and female) don't seem to be aware of until it's pointed out to them.
A few cases in point.
http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/conferences/2013-w50-research-symposium/Documents/glick.pdf
http://guardianlv.com/2014/07/sexism-in-the-workplace-no-escape/[/url]
Please hear what I'm saying - I assess a person's technical competency on technical competency and nothing else. I don't really care if you're male or female, what color your skin is, what your age is or if you have hair on your head.
Are the issues present in the world? Yes. With me? No.
There are plenty of subtle ways these things can affect even judging technical competency, even by people who want to not take any of that into account. It is a societal background noise. It affects both those doing the interviewing and those being interviewed. I'm not saying anyone in particular does it on purpose, I know many people think they're completely above it, but I don't know that anyone is or can be in the societies we live in without being aware of it all the time.
Shiv, that's kind of where I was going with my comment and links.
Ed, I wasn't trying to accuse you of bias. I was just trying to point out that we all (myself included) subconsciously act on these things, even when we don't think we are. And sometimes even the best of us fall into those traps precisely because we're working so hard on avoiding them.
February 5, 2015 at 9:29 am
I'm going to be maybe a bit contrary, but maybe not. Being a person of less than average height I tend to notice height when I go into a company and I've definitely been in places where the appearance is that they prefer to hire taller people (I'm not talking about the NBA), and I've noticed in my current position that there aren't as many taller people in IT, in fact most people are 5' 7" or shorter. My point is that sometimes you notice things because of who you are and your history, when in fact the other people involved haven't consciously factored in what you are seeing in their decision making.
Until my current position I haven't really been involved in interviewing, but I'm pretty heavily involved now and in my 11 months at this job I've been involved in 11 or 12 interviews. The questions I ask are technical that relate to the job being filled and how they keep up technically. I base cultural fit on how they answer the questions and react to my follow-up questions (not scripted). I personally could care less about their political, cultural, and religious views beyond how I believe they way they represent those views will affect their ability to do the job. I'm considered by some people to be a very religious person because I attend church every Sunday and I'm involved beyond just attendance, but, unless someone else brings it up, I'm not going to talk about it beyond a, "I'm not available because I have church responsibilities". But in an interview I would have a problem with someone who may share my beliefs, but thinks that work is the place to proselytize because that IS going to cause problems in the workplace. Would I appreciate having someone at work that shares my beliefs so that I'd have a common bond with, sure, but it isn't the primary thing. I can even work with Yankee fans.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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February 5, 2015 at 9:34 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
Sioban Krzywicki (2/5/2015)
Ed Wagner (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
Ed Wagner (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
This is a serious issue, especially in the technology world. Women are forced to play roles both in the interview and then at the job after being hiring. It's more than "working twice as hard to get to the same place as a man." When we try to knowledge-share, we get second guessed. When we crow our achievements, we're told we're being arrogant or noisy. When we go to lead, we're often told we're being bossy.
I must be weird or something, as I base technical competency on...wait for it...technical competency.
Whether someone can be taught is about attitude and that can get tricky. The "good fit" part can be very tricky.
Technical competency is easy.
Easy? I don't know. Benevolent sexism is still a strong force that many people (both male and female) don't seem to be aware of until it's pointed out to them.
A few cases in point.
http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/conferences/2013-w50-research-symposium/Documents/glick.pdf
http://guardianlv.com/2014/07/sexism-in-the-workplace-no-escape/[/url]
Please hear what I'm saying - I assess a person's technical competency on technical competency and nothing else. I don't really care if you're male or female, what color your skin is, what your age is or if you have hair on your head.
Are the issues present in the world? Yes. With me? No.
There are plenty of subtle ways these things can affect even judging technical competency, even by people who want to not take any of that into account. It is a societal background noise. It affects both those doing the interviewing and those being interviewed. I'm not saying anyone in particular does it on purpose, I know many people think they're completely above it, but I don't know that anyone is or can be in the societies we live in without being aware of it all the time.
Shiv, that's kind of where I was going with my comment and links.
Ed, I wasn't trying to accuse you of bias. I was just trying to point out that we all (myself included) subconsciously act on these things, even when we don't think we are. And sometimes even the best of us fall into those traps precisely because we're working so hard on avoiding them.
Exactly. I think I'm fairly good about this, but I still make sure I question myself all the time. I'm sure I still screw up too. I know there are times when reviewing what's happened I can see where I did, I just try to be better the next time.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
February 5, 2015 at 9:37 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
So I just got a workplace reminder to wear red tomorrow because of National Red Day[/url].I didn't even know this was a thing, but it is. Wanna participate?
Eh. I wear red all the time. I am, officially, a red shirt. Which is why I don't like away teams.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
February 5, 2015 at 9:39 am
Jack Corbett (2/5/2015)
I'm going to be maybe a bit contrary, but maybe not. Being a person of less than average height I tend to notice height when I go into a company and I've definitely been in places where the appearance is that they prefer to hire taller people (I'm not talking about the NBA), and I've noticed in my current position that there aren't as many taller people in IT, in fact most people are 5' 7" or shorter. My point is that sometimes you notice things because of who you are and your history, when in fact the other people involved haven't consciously factored in what you are seeing in their decision making.Until my current position I haven't really been involved in interviewing, but I'm pretty heavily involved now and in my 11 months at this job I've been involved in 11 or 12 interviews. The questions I ask are technical that relate to the job being filled and how they keep up technically. I base cultural fit on how they answer the questions and react to my follow-up questions (not scripted). I personally could care less about their political, cultural, and religious views beyond how I believe they way they represent those views will affect their ability to do the job. I'm considered by some people to be a very religious person because I attend church every Sunday and I'm involved beyond just attendance, but, unless someone else brings it up, I'm not going to talk about it beyond a, "I'm not available because I have church responsibilities". But in an interview I would have a problem with someone who may share my beliefs, but thinks that work is the place to proselytize because that IS going to cause problems in the workplace. Would I appreciate having someone at work that shares my beliefs so that I'd have a common bond with, sure, but it isn't the primary thing. I can even work with Yankee fans.
Really? Yankees fans? Are they even human?
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
February 5, 2015 at 9:41 am
Grant Fritchey (2/5/2015)
Jack Corbett (2/5/2015)
I'm going to be maybe a bit contrary, but maybe not. Being a person of less than average height I tend to notice height when I go into a company and I've definitely been in places where the appearance is that they prefer to hire taller people (I'm not talking about the NBA), and I've noticed in my current position that there aren't as many taller people in IT, in fact most people are 5' 7" or shorter. My point is that sometimes you notice things because of who you are and your history, when in fact the other people involved haven't consciously factored in what you are seeing in their decision making.Until my current position I haven't really been involved in interviewing, but I'm pretty heavily involved now and in my 11 months at this job I've been involved in 11 or 12 interviews. The questions I ask are technical that relate to the job being filled and how they keep up technically. I base cultural fit on how they answer the questions and react to my follow-up questions (not scripted). I personally could care less about their political, cultural, and religious views beyond how I believe they way they represent those views will affect their ability to do the job. I'm considered by some people to be a very religious person because I attend church every Sunday and I'm involved beyond just attendance, but, unless someone else brings it up, I'm not going to talk about it beyond a, "I'm not available because I have church responsibilities". But in an interview I would have a problem with someone who may share my beliefs, but thinks that work is the place to proselytize because that IS going to cause problems in the workplace. Would I appreciate having someone at work that shares my beliefs so that I'd have a common bond with, sure, but it isn't the primary thing. I can even work with Yankee fans.
Really? Yankees fans? Are they even human?
About the same as Red Sox or Pats fans.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
February 5, 2015 at 9:42 am
Grant Fritchey (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
So I just got a workplace reminder to wear red tomorrow because of National Red Day[/url].I didn't even know this was a thing, but it is. Wanna participate?
Eh. I wear red all the time. I am, officially, a red shirt. Which is why I don't like away teams.
You must like Next-Gen and DS9 much better.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
February 5, 2015 at 9:45 am
Sioban Krzywicki (2/5/2015)
Grant Fritchey (2/5/2015)
Jack Corbett (2/5/2015)
I'm going to be maybe a bit contrary, but maybe not. Being a person of less than average height I tend to notice height when I go into a company and I've definitely been in places where the appearance is that they prefer to hire taller people (I'm not talking about the NBA), and I've noticed in my current position that there aren't as many taller people in IT, in fact most people are 5' 7" or shorter. My point is that sometimes you notice things because of who you are and your history, when in fact the other people involved haven't consciously factored in what you are seeing in their decision making.Until my current position I haven't really been involved in interviewing, but I'm pretty heavily involved now and in my 11 months at this job I've been involved in 11 or 12 interviews. The questions I ask are technical that relate to the job being filled and how they keep up technically. I base cultural fit on how they answer the questions and react to my follow-up questions (not scripted). I personally could care less about their political, cultural, and religious views beyond how I believe they way they represent those views will affect their ability to do the job. I'm considered by some people to be a very religious person because I attend church every Sunday and I'm involved beyond just attendance, but, unless someone else brings it up, I'm not going to talk about it beyond a, "I'm not available because I have church responsibilities". But in an interview I would have a problem with someone who may share my beliefs, but thinks that work is the place to proselytize because that IS going to cause problems in the workplace. Would I appreciate having someone at work that shares my beliefs so that I'd have a common bond with, sure, but it isn't the primary thing. I can even work with Yankee fans.
Really? Yankees fans? Are they even human?
About the same as Red Sox or Pats fans.
HEY! My Dad is a Sox fan! ... I can't remember which Sox team, though. The only thing I know for sure is it isn't the government's SOX that he's a fan of. @=)
February 5, 2015 at 9:45 am
Sioban Krzywicki (2/5/2015)
Grant Fritchey (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
So I just got a workplace reminder to wear red tomorrow because of National Red Day[/url].I didn't even know this was a thing, but it is. Wanna participate?
Eh. I wear red all the time. I am, officially, a red shirt. Which is why I don't like away teams.
You must like Next-Gen and DS9 much better.
YES!
Shiv gets the trophy!
February 5, 2015 at 9:48 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
Sioban Krzywicki (2/5/2015)
Grant Fritchey (2/5/2015)
Brandie Tarvin (2/5/2015)
So I just got a workplace reminder to wear red tomorrow because of National Red Day[/url].I didn't even know this was a thing, but it is. Wanna participate?
Eh. I wear red all the time. I am, officially, a red shirt. Which is why I don't like away teams.
You must like Next-Gen and DS9 much better.
YES!
Shiv gets the trophy!
Wooooo!
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
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