September 5, 2014 at 12:13 pm
cphite (9/5/2014)
jcrawf02 (9/4/2014)
Ed Wagner (9/4/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (9/4/2014)
andrew gothard (9/4/2014)
Gazareth (9/3/2014)
I've just been told: "We don't recommend running SQL commands against the database"Right. May as well go home then!
You know Chris Date? Cool
Nah, Chris Date would say SQL Server (and other RMDBS) aren't relational anyway, so just might use SQL anyway... 😀
Two situations yesterday really caused me to think last night.
I don't understand why certain people have to go on such rants and rip people up one side and down the other when it comes to such simple things in SQL. Some poor guy posts a simple question and gets a couple of good responses, only to have Joe come on a completely shred the OP from top to bottom. I don't know if he does this for pleasure or if he's married to ANSI so hard that he can't seem to acknowledge anything else. I mean, seriously, we're working in SQL Server, so we should use the SQL Server language (T-SQL) to it's fullest advantage to eek as much performance out of it as possible. This business he spews forth with ANSI data types and lack of relational theory is argumentative and just plain silly. What's the real point? To make the OP feel small and stupid? Why? To what end? Maybe it makes him feel better about himself. But again, why?
While he's never dressed me down personally on any of my posts, I'm to the point where I don't even want to post anywhere he's posted anything. I'm absolutely sure I don't follow ANSI standards 100% of the time and am fine with that. I admit I'm tempted sometimes to bait him to going off on a rant where he spends 35 minutes typing a 4-page response to a 5-line solution, but I haven't succumbed to that temptation yet.
Then there's the opposite end of the spectrum where the "silver spoon user" doesn't want to try anything or even think for himself. Really, isn't coding about understanding process, iterative development and thinking things through logically? He must have missed that class, but how do you ever survive as a developer without being able to think logically and figure things out?
Okay, my own rant is over and I'm off my soap box.
He basically just said he does it to get a reaction, because if people yell back at him in an intelligent manner, they might have to go read the standard to do so, etc. Stupid reason. Someone reading something for the sole purpose of arguing with his attitude is not going to actually learn anything, they might even avoid it just because of that interaction. Plus, why would you purposely try to spew more bile into the universe? Be the change you wish to see, right?
I've encountered Joe on a couple of different forums and frankly I think he's telling a half-truth... he does it to get a reaction, yes, but I'm not convinced it has anything to do with any desire to help anyone... Far too many times, I've seen someone post a question and he tears into them about the column names they used, or the table names, or whatever; stuff having nothing whatsoever to do with what they're actually asking. And, on some occasions he actually leaves his "ANSI only" stance if necessary to contradict/insult whoever he's talking to.
So I really don't buy the whole "tough love" thing he claims (he's made the same claim on Google forums) because it doesn't fit what he's actually doing.
It is truly a shame. He has so much he could offer to anybody in this profession but his demeanor online has jaded me so much I instinctively turn the other way when I see his name. :angry:
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Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
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Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
September 5, 2014 at 12:15 pm
GilaMonster (9/5/2014)
Grant Fritchey (9/4/2014)
You never know. I get stumped all the time. That's why Gail's here.Wha?
Well, at least I have a purpose in life...
Looks like you have been "Granted" a purpose:hehe:
😎
September 5, 2014 at 1:09 pm
Help me, help me, I can't trouble shoot errors. Oh, here is the code I am running.
Okay, looks like the code we were helping you with earlier. What does the code we are running have to do with the linked server error regarding the provider you are trying to use??
Sorry, had to rant.
September 5, 2014 at 1:30 pm
cphite (9/5/2014)
jcrawf02 (9/4/2014)
Ed Wagner (9/4/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (9/4/2014)
andrew gothard (9/4/2014)
Gazareth (9/3/2014)
I've just been told: "We don't recommend running SQL commands against the database"Right. May as well go home then!
You know Chris Date? Cool
Nah, Chris Date would say SQL Server (and other RMDBS) aren't relational anyway, so just might use SQL anyway... 😀
Two situations yesterday really caused me to think last night.
I don't understand why certain people have to go on such rants and rip people up one side and down the other when it comes to such simple things in SQL. Some poor guy posts a simple question and gets a couple of good responses, only to have Joe come on a completely shred the OP from top to bottom. I don't know if he does this for pleasure or if he's married to ANSI so hard that he can't seem to acknowledge anything else. I mean, seriously, we're working in SQL Server, so we should use the SQL Server language (T-SQL) to it's fullest advantage to eek as much performance out of it as possible. This business he spews forth with ANSI data types and lack of relational theory is argumentative and just plain silly. What's the real point? To make the OP feel small and stupid? Why? To what end? Maybe it makes him feel better about himself. But again, why?
While he's never dressed me down personally on any of my posts, I'm to the point where I don't even want to post anywhere he's posted anything. I'm absolutely sure I don't follow ANSI standards 100% of the time and am fine with that. I admit I'm tempted sometimes to bait him to going off on a rant where he spends 35 minutes typing a 4-page response to a 5-line solution, but I haven't succumbed to that temptation yet.
Then there's the opposite end of the spectrum where the "silver spoon user" doesn't want to try anything or even think for himself. Really, isn't coding about understanding process, iterative development and thinking things through logically? He must have missed that class, but how do you ever survive as a developer without being able to think logically and figure things out?
Okay, my own rant is over and I'm off my soap box.
He basically just said he does it to get a reaction, because if people yell back at him in an intelligent manner, they might have to go read the standard to do so, etc. Stupid reason. Someone reading something for the sole purpose of arguing with his attitude is not going to actually learn anything, they might even avoid it just because of that interaction. Plus, why would you purposely try to spew more bile into the universe? Be the change you wish to see, right?
I've encountered Joe on a couple of different forums and frankly I think he's telling a half-truth... he does it to get a reaction, yes, but I'm not convinced it has anything to do with any desire to help anyone... Far too many times, I've seen someone post a question and he tears into them about the column names they used, or the table names, or whatever; stuff having nothing whatsoever to do with what they're actually asking. And, on some occasions he actually leaves his "ANSI only" stance if necessary to contradict/insult whoever he's talking to.
So I really don't buy the whole "tough love" thing he claims (he's made the same claim on Google forums) because it doesn't fit what he's actually doing.
What gets me is that I've been in 1 to 1 email discussion with him a couple of times and there he is polite, sensible, helpful - explains his view properly without ranting and takes the trouble to understand mine without telling me I'm an incompetent idiot, and mostly doesn't produce anything blatantly silly. But what he does in the forums here is thoroughly disgraceful and usually very unhelpful. I don't know why there is such a difference, but I do know that people who know him personally (face to face) have told me he's normally like I've seen him in email, not like we see him here. Of course it's quite a long time since I was last in contact with him other than through SQLServerCentral's forums, maybe he's changed. Anyway, I'm irritated by his behaviour here so pounding hard on his idiocies from time to time.
Maybe I'll get round to taking his normalisation article (Stairway to Database Design Level 9: Normalization[/url] apart, the section on BCNF is utterly confused (he appears to solve the big BCNF idiocy by going toERKNF instead of BCNF and then claims that his EKNF schema is in BCNF) and his sections on 4NF and 5NF, while they don't say anything actually incorrect (other than implicitly claim that they provide definitions of these normal forms, which they cetainly don't) are completely usueless to anyone who wants to learn anything about those normal forms. I've been refraining because I don't want to start a fight, but some of his recent posts are making me consider going for the throa on that one - after all, normalisation theory is close to my heart, and his treatment of anything beyond 3NF is pure barbarism.
Tom
September 5, 2014 at 1:32 pm
GilaMonster (9/5/2014)
Grant Fritchey (9/4/2014)
You never know. I get stumped all the time. That's why Gail's here.Wha?
Well, at least I have a purpose in life...
Well, a purpose in SQLserverCentral forums anyway. :rolleyes:
Tom
September 5, 2014 at 1:41 pm
Lynn Pettis (9/5/2014)
Help me, help me, I can't trouble shoot errors. Oh, here is the code I am running.Okay, looks like the code we were helping you with earlier. What does the code we are running have to do with the linked server error regarding the provider you are trying to use??
Sorry, had to rant.
Yeah, I saw that. The OraOLDB just didn't look right to me. I posted a reply, but I don't know what random direction it'll go off to from there.
September 5, 2014 at 3:43 pm
TomThomson (9/5/2014)
cphite (9/5/2014)
jcrawf02 (9/4/2014)
Ed Wagner (9/4/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (9/4/2014)
andrew gothard (9/4/2014)
Gazareth (9/3/2014)
I've just been told: "We don't recommend running SQL commands against the database"Right. May as well go home then!
You know Chris Date? Cool
Nah, Chris Date would say SQL Server (and other RMDBS) aren't relational anyway, so just might use SQL anyway... 😀
Two situations yesterday really caused me to think last night.
I don't understand why certain people have to go on such rants and rip people up one side and down the other when it comes to such simple things in SQL. Some poor guy posts a simple question and gets a couple of good responses, only to have Joe come on a completely shred the OP from top to bottom. I don't know if he does this for pleasure or if he's married to ANSI so hard that he can't seem to acknowledge anything else. I mean, seriously, we're working in SQL Server, so we should use the SQL Server language (T-SQL) to it's fullest advantage to eek as much performance out of it as possible. This business he spews forth with ANSI data types and lack of relational theory is argumentative and just plain silly. What's the real point? To make the OP feel small and stupid? Why? To what end? Maybe it makes him feel better about himself. But again, why?
While he's never dressed me down personally on any of my posts, I'm to the point where I don't even want to post anywhere he's posted anything. I'm absolutely sure I don't follow ANSI standards 100% of the time and am fine with that. I admit I'm tempted sometimes to bait him to going off on a rant where he spends 35 minutes typing a 4-page response to a 5-line solution, but I haven't succumbed to that temptation yet.
Then there's the opposite end of the spectrum where the "silver spoon user" doesn't want to try anything or even think for himself. Really, isn't coding about understanding process, iterative development and thinking things through logically? He must have missed that class, but how do you ever survive as a developer without being able to think logically and figure things out?
Okay, my own rant is over and I'm off my soap box.
He basically just said he does it to get a reaction, because if people yell back at him in an intelligent manner, they might have to go read the standard to do so, etc. Stupid reason. Someone reading something for the sole purpose of arguing with his attitude is not going to actually learn anything, they might even avoid it just because of that interaction. Plus, why would you purposely try to spew more bile into the universe? Be the change you wish to see, right?
I've encountered Joe on a couple of different forums and frankly I think he's telling a half-truth... he does it to get a reaction, yes, but I'm not convinced it has anything to do with any desire to help anyone... Far too many times, I've seen someone post a question and he tears into them about the column names they used, or the table names, or whatever; stuff having nothing whatsoever to do with what they're actually asking. And, on some occasions he actually leaves his "ANSI only" stance if necessary to contradict/insult whoever he's talking to.
So I really don't buy the whole "tough love" thing he claims (he's made the same claim on Google forums) because it doesn't fit what he's actually doing.
What gets me is that I've been in 1 to 1 email discussion with him a couple of times and there he is polite, sensible, helpful - explains his view properly without ranting and takes the trouble to understand mine without telling me I'm an incompetent idiot, and mostly doesn't produce anything blatantly silly. But what he does in the forums here is thoroughly disgraceful and usually very unhelpful. I don't know why there is such a difference, but I do know that people who know him personally (face to face) have told me he's normally like I've seen him in email, not like we see him here. Of course it's quite a long time since I was last in contact with him other than through SQLServerCentral's forums, maybe he's changed. Anyway, I'm irritated by his behaviour here so pounding hard on his idiocies from time to time.
Maybe I'll get round to taking his normalisation article (Stairway to Database Design Level 9: Normalization[/url] apart, the section on BCNF is utterly confused (he appears to solve the big BCNF idiocy by going toERKNF instead of BCNF and then claims that his EKNF schema is in BCNF) and his sections on 4NF and 5NF, while they don't say anything actually incorrect (other than implicitly claim that they provide definitions of these normal forms, which they cetainly don't) are completely usueless to anyone who wants to learn anything about those normal forms. I've been refraining because I don't want to start a fight, but some of his recent posts are making me consider going for the throa on that one - after all, normalisation theory is close to my heart, and his treatment of anything beyond 3NF is pure barbarism.
Hand on my heart, the man is a complete prince in the real world. I don't understand, or defend, his online persona. I just can't let it override the real man. And I know, if all you know of him is the online persona you think I'm defending him, but I'm not. I just don't get it.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
September 5, 2014 at 3:58 pm
Grant Fritchey (9/5/2014)
TomThomson (9/5/2014)
cphite (9/5/2014)
jcrawf02 (9/4/2014)
Ed Wagner (9/4/2014)
Koen Verbeeck (9/4/2014)
andrew gothard (9/4/2014)
Gazareth (9/3/2014)
I've just been told: "We don't recommend running SQL commands against the database"Right. May as well go home then!
You know Chris Date? Cool
Nah, Chris Date would say SQL Server (and other RMDBS) aren't relational anyway, so just might use SQL anyway... 😀
Two situations yesterday really caused me to think last night.
I don't understand why certain people have to go on such rants and rip people up one side and down the other when it comes to such simple things in SQL. Some poor guy posts a simple question and gets a couple of good responses, only to have Joe come on a completely shred the OP from top to bottom. I don't know if he does this for pleasure or if he's married to ANSI so hard that he can't seem to acknowledge anything else. I mean, seriously, we're working in SQL Server, so we should use the SQL Server language (T-SQL) to it's fullest advantage to eek as much performance out of it as possible. This business he spews forth with ANSI data types and lack of relational theory is argumentative and just plain silly. What's the real point? To make the OP feel small and stupid? Why? To what end? Maybe it makes him feel better about himself. But again, why?
While he's never dressed me down personally on any of my posts, I'm to the point where I don't even want to post anywhere he's posted anything. I'm absolutely sure I don't follow ANSI standards 100% of the time and am fine with that. I admit I'm tempted sometimes to bait him to going off on a rant where he spends 35 minutes typing a 4-page response to a 5-line solution, but I haven't succumbed to that temptation yet.
Then there's the opposite end of the spectrum where the "silver spoon user" doesn't want to try anything or even think for himself. Really, isn't coding about understanding process, iterative development and thinking things through logically? He must have missed that class, but how do you ever survive as a developer without being able to think logically and figure things out?
Okay, my own rant is over and I'm off my soap box.
He basically just said he does it to get a reaction, because if people yell back at him in an intelligent manner, they might have to go read the standard to do so, etc. Stupid reason. Someone reading something for the sole purpose of arguing with his attitude is not going to actually learn anything, they might even avoid it just because of that interaction. Plus, why would you purposely try to spew more bile into the universe? Be the change you wish to see, right?
I've encountered Joe on a couple of different forums and frankly I think he's telling a half-truth... he does it to get a reaction, yes, but I'm not convinced it has anything to do with any desire to help anyone... Far too many times, I've seen someone post a question and he tears into them about the column names they used, or the table names, or whatever; stuff having nothing whatsoever to do with what they're actually asking. And, on some occasions he actually leaves his "ANSI only" stance if necessary to contradict/insult whoever he's talking to.
So I really don't buy the whole "tough love" thing he claims (he's made the same claim on Google forums) because it doesn't fit what he's actually doing.
What gets me is that I've been in 1 to 1 email discussion with him a couple of times and there he is polite, sensible, helpful - explains his view properly without ranting and takes the trouble to understand mine without telling me I'm an incompetent idiot, and mostly doesn't produce anything blatantly silly. But what he does in the forums here is thoroughly disgraceful and usually very unhelpful. I don't know why there is such a difference, but I do know that people who know him personally (face to face) have told me he's normally like I've seen him in email, not like we see him here. Of course it's quite a long time since I was last in contact with him other than through SQLServerCentral's forums, maybe he's changed. Anyway, I'm irritated by his behaviour here so pounding hard on his idiocies from time to time.
Maybe I'll get round to taking his normalisation article (Stairway to Database Design Level 9: Normalization[/url] apart, the section on BCNF is utterly confused (he appears to solve the big BCNF idiocy by going toERKNF instead of BCNF and then claims that his EKNF schema is in BCNF) and his sections on 4NF and 5NF, while they don't say anything actually incorrect (other than implicitly claim that they provide definitions of these normal forms, which they cetainly don't) are completely usueless to anyone who wants to learn anything about those normal forms. I've been refraining because I don't want to start a fight, but some of his recent posts are making me consider going for the throa on that one - after all, normalisation theory is close to my heart, and his treatment of anything beyond 3NF is pure barbarism.
Hand on my heart, the man is a complete prince in the real world. I don't understand, or defend, his online persona. I just can't let it override the real man. And I know, if all you know of him is the online persona you think I'm defending him, but I'm not. I just don't get it.
The problem is first impressions. The online forums are the only place I have met Mr. Celko, and because of this online persona I really have no desire what so ever to meet him in person. My loss and his.
September 5, 2014 at 4:26 pm
Silver Spoon, Silver Spoon, when are you going to grow a .................
With this, we are supposed to pull an answer out of our arses:
I just was handed off another Server.
The backups were failing I believe The Network Service does not have permissions to the D:\Backups\Full directory.
I tried creating a new Job and I got error message Login does not have permissions.
I have a Domain Account which I use for the SQL Server Service account which I use on my Servers.
Is that why it is failing?
September 5, 2014 at 6:02 pm
Grant Fritchey (9/5/2014)
Hand on my heart, the man is a complete prince in the real world. I don't understand, or defend, his online persona. I just can't let it override the real man. And I know, if all you know of him is the online persona you think I'm defending him, but I'm not. I just don't get it.
I wish we could have in on the forums the way you've seen him in the rel world and I've seen him in the person-to-person (as opposed to forums) virtual world. In that mode he would be a great asset to us here. In his forum mode - - well,like you, I can't understand it.
Tom
September 5, 2014 at 6:13 pm
Heh... could it be that Joe knows that if he ever treats or talks to someone in person as he does online, that someone would eventually clock him?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
September 5, 2014 at 6:44 pm
Eirikur Eiriksson (9/4/2014)
Luis Cazares (9/4/2014)
batgirl (9/4/2014)
Lynn Pettis (9/4/2014)
Yes, I actually threw one of Mr. Celko's own arguments back at him in a post talking about dates.I liked the COBOL reference since he likes to use it when berating a newbie.
😀 Throw harder next time...knock him out please!
I'm not sure that would work. He reminds me of a paddle ball. The harder you hit, the faster he comes back.
Swap the bat for a shotgun
😎
I guess you could say that Tom already did.
September 6, 2014 at 12:59 pm
Jeff Moden (9/5/2014)
Heh... could it be that Joe knows that if he ever treats or talks to someone in person as he does online, that someone would eventually clock him?
Doubt it, though he's a small, thin, old guy. I expect he wouldn't likely talk to many people like that.
September 7, 2014 at 11:04 am
This is like torture. I'm at the office, unable to watch the first games of the NFL season and can only see all the spam promoting supposed pages to watch the games online. :angry:
September 7, 2014 at 11:45 am
Luis Cazares (9/7/2014)
This is like torture. I'm at the office, unable to watch the first games of the NFL season and can only see all the spam promoting supposed pages to watch the games online. :angry:
Ironically a "perfect:pinch:" timing
😎
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