June 5, 2014 at 10:49 am
SQLRNNR (6/5/2014)
Lynn Pettis (6/5/2014)
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
Please, please, please, bestester behavior, no piling on of any kind (or I'll delete the posts and I can do that, BWA-HA-HA-HA, THE POWER!, ahem, where was I), but I just had my first "In-memory sucks because I can't violate the laws of spacetime with it and it doesn't perform miracles" post. I thought I'd share. I'm positive it's just the first of hundreds, if not thousands, of these.And I reiterate, be nice. I think I've already been overly churlish, so we don't need anyone adding to it.
Couldn't pile on anyway, I don't even have SQL Server 2014 to play with out here in Colorful Afghanistan.
$60 for a dev copy 😉
Just install it on your laptop:hehe:
#
It's kind of hard to get it in some places - for example the UK MS online shop doesný have it, neither does Amazon,co,uk (which MS usually serves first, ahead of its UK partners), nor did any UK MS partner last time I checked (other than on massively expensive "buy everything from us" contracts) a few days ago - I want to but it's not available. Nor could it be got in Spain when I was last there (22 May). As usual, Standard Edition and anything tht costs more is easily available here.
I had the same problem with SQL 2012, with SQl 2008 RII, and with SQL 2008 . But SQL 2000 was never a problem. I don't know about SQL 2005 - I used an evalation version to discover that where I worked could wait for SQL 2008. If anyone can suggest somewhere I can get SQL 2014 developer Edition in the UK I'll be very glad to hear of it.
Tom
June 5, 2014 at 11:07 am
SQLRNNR (6/5/2014)
TomThomson (6/5/2014)
SQLRNNR (6/5/2014)
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
Please, please, please, bestester behavior, no piling on of any kind (or I'll delete the posts and I can do that, BWA-HA-HA-HA, THE POWER!, ahem, where was I), but I just had my first "In-memory sucks because I can't violate the laws of spacetime with it and it doesn't perform miracles" post. I thought I'd share. I'm positive it's just the first of hundreds, if not thousands, of these.And I reiterate, be nice. I think I've already been overly churlish, so we don't need anyone adding to it.
I couldn't be nice. Sorry. There was no reason to be nice to that person at all.
Bollocks Jason. Your were too nice. That sort of drivel needs dealing with properly, with no sugaring, otherwise the offender will not learn.
Fair point 😀
I have to agree with Tom on this one. You called him out and you were nice about doing so. If you meet rudeness with politeness, it tends to have a disarming affect. Not dealing with it means they'll continue.
June 5, 2014 at 12:27 pm
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
Please, please, please, bestester behavior, no piling on of any kind (or I'll delete the posts and I can do that, BWA-HA-HA-HA, THE POWER!, ahem, where was I), but I just had my first "In-memory sucks because I can't violate the laws of spacetime with it and it doesn't perform miracles" post. I thought I'd share. I'm positive it's just the first of hundreds, if not thousands, of these.And I reiterate, be nice. I think I've already been overly churlish, so we don't need anyone adding to it.
I thought it was some interesting points he had, he's doing the right thing, running tests, examining behavior. Running out of a typically scarce resource is precisely the area he should see ahead of time, he actually says he's evaluating it in a test situation, in my opinion he's doing the right thing and mentioning behavior that I'm now hoping will get more explanation in other threads. Thats a key point with a resource thats scarce, "what happens when you run out of it or it is otherwise unexpectedly consumed." He was up front with knowing he had more table than memory on point #1, so I don't know why you focused on it, why did you? Microsoft's software is informed of the amount of ram available and it let him declare the table as such, so he ran his test. Even more so, he TESTED, in a TEST situation, and I'm going to give him props on that, and maybe I'm just being thick on what you are on about.
I didn't see you address point 2, and an "i don't know" on point 3, so I guess I'm missing what Jason thought was said, I didn't see what was said that could have helped with point 2, what was it?
June 5, 2014 at 12:39 pm
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (6/5/2014)
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
Please, please, please, bestester behavior, no piling on of any kind (or I'll delete the posts and I can do that, BWA-HA-HA-HA, THE POWER!, ahem, where was I), but I just had my first "In-memory sucks because I can't violate the laws of spacetime with it and it doesn't perform miracles" post. I thought I'd share. I'm positive it's just the first of hundreds, if not thousands, of these.And I reiterate, be nice. I think I've already been overly churlish, so we don't need anyone adding to it.
I thought it was some interesting points he had, he's doing the right thing, running tests, examining behavior. Running out of a typically scarce resource is precisely the area he should see ahead of time, he actually says he's evaluating it in a test situation, in my opinion he's doing the right thing and mentioning behavior that I'm now hoping will get more explanation in other threads. Thats a key point with a resource thats scarce, "what happens when you run out of it or it is otherwise unexpectedly consumed." He was up front with knowing he had more table than memory on point #1, so I don't know why you focused on it, why did you? Microsoft's software is informed of the amount of ram available and it let him declare the table as such, so he ran his test. Even more so, he TESTED, in a TEST situation, and I'm going to give him props on that, and maybe I'm just being thick on what you are on about.
I didn't see you address point 2, and an "i don't know" on point 3, so I guess I'm missing what Jason thought was said, I didn't see what was said that could have helped with point 2, what was it?
The designation of standard behavior as bugs got to me. Yes, you can over-allocate servers and you'll get errors. What did that prove? That's something you've been able to do way before in-memory tables came along. Try setting the max server memory to 10mb sometime. That was a really cool crash, but the fact that Microsoft let me load a gun, aim it at my foot and pull the trigger isn't a bug. I just couldn't believe that was one of the "shortcomings" of in-memory. Then the next one was that SQL Server behaved the way it always behaves, filling memory as queries are run. Shock. Not a bug. The last thing was something, but in all likelihood, completely unrelated to in-memory. In fact, I think Jason nailed it, he rebooted the machine in the middle of some transactions.
It just read like a diatribe against in-memory tables (and I'm not saying they're awesome, have you seen the list of restrictions) based on really bad testing, but with no apparent question that I could see. The site is for questions, not oddball blog posts with faulty premises. But, as I said, I was overly churlish.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
June 5, 2014 at 12:42 pm
I am just going to leave this here...
http://www.sqlusa.com/bestpractices/[/url]
Don't worry there is soap for your eyes. Then if you read some of the content you may want to find a shotgun and just kill the internet. They even have a page that goes into great detail about the "best" way to construct nested cursors.
http://sqlusa.com/bestpractices2005/doublecursor/[/url]
:w00t:
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
June 5, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Koen Verbeeck (6/3/2014)
jasona.work (6/3/2014)
You know, I'd not really thought about this until now, but...How do people find all these "undocumented" options for various SQL commands?
dbcc autopilot???
create index... WITH STATISTICS_ONLY = ???
What do these people have, an inside source at MS or something? A decompiler so they can pull apart the SQL Server executables and DLLs?
Just curious...
Wait, why am I hearing helicopters all of a sudden?
And why are the helicopters I see all black, with no log*(yhijh)&(*Y)(*Ypinlk
/SESSION TERMINATED AT SOURCE
There is a splinter group of the Illuminati that gathers and trade SQL Server secrets.
You have to know the secret handshake to get in...
But I can't DO the handshake since they made me cut off a thumb. :crying:
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
June 5, 2014 at 12:47 pm
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
Please, please, please, bestester behavior, no piling on of any kind (or I'll delete the posts and I can do that, BWA-HA-HA-HA, THE POWER!, ahem, where was I), but I just had my first "In-memory sucks because I can't violate the laws of spacetime with it and it doesn't perform miracles" post. I thought I'd share. I'm positive it's just the first of hundreds, if not thousands, of these.And I reiterate, be nice. I think I've already been overly churlish, so we don't need anyone adding to it.
I refrained from suggesting he try it again using the (NOBLOCKHEAD) hint.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
June 5, 2014 at 12:49 pm
Sean Lange (6/5/2014)
I am just going to leave this here...http://www.sqlusa.com/bestpractices/[/url]
Don't worry there is soap for your eyes. Then if you read some of the content you may want to find a shotgun and just kill the internet. They even have a page that goes into great detail about the "best" way to construct nested cursors.
http://sqlusa.com/bestpractices2005/doublecursor/[/url]
:w00t:
Now that I've recovered from the stroke all those flashing lights caused... I made the mistake of reading the parameter sniffing article. I'll be weeping over here if anyone needs me.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
June 5, 2014 at 12:53 pm
Sean Lange (6/5/2014)
I am just going to leave this here...http://www.sqlusa.com/bestpractices/[/url]
Don't worry there is soap for your eyes. Then if you read some of the content you may want to find a shotgun and just kill the internet. They even have a page that goes into great detail about the "best" way to construct nested cursors.
http://sqlusa.com/bestpractices2005/doublecursor/[/url]
:w00t:
I believe I have seen that site come up previously in discussions - for the same reasons. It's bad.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
June 5, 2014 at 12:54 pm
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
Sean Lange (6/5/2014)
I am just going to leave this here...http://www.sqlusa.com/bestpractices/[/url]
Don't worry there is soap for your eyes. Then if you read some of the content you may want to find a shotgun and just kill the internet. They even have a page that goes into great detail about the "best" way to construct nested cursors.
http://sqlusa.com/bestpractices2005/doublecursor/[/url]
:w00t:
Now that I've recovered from the stroke all those flashing lights caused... I made the mistake of reading the parameter sniffing article. I'll be weeping over here if anyone needs me.
I thought the piece on commenting a stored procedure was decent. It's hard to argue with:
1. Don't document anything obvious to other database developer
2. Document anything not obvious
😉
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
June 5, 2014 at 12:54 pm
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
Sean Lange (6/5/2014)
I am just going to leave this here...http://www.sqlusa.com/bestpractices/[/url]
Don't worry there is soap for your eyes. Then if you read some of the content you may want to find a shotgun and just kill the internet. They even have a page that goes into great detail about the "best" way to construct nested cursors.
http://sqlusa.com/bestpractices2005/doublecursor/[/url]
:w00t:
Now that I've recovered from the stroke all those flashing lights caused... I made the mistake of reading the parameter sniffing article. I'll be weeping over here if anyone needs me.
How ironic that they had an ad for SQL performance software (the cause of Grant's medical condition) in the middle of the nested cursor examples.
Sean's right. Shotgun...shoot the internet...many shells required.
June 5, 2014 at 12:59 pm
The Dixie Flatline (6/5/2014)
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
Sean Lange (6/5/2014)
I am just going to leave this here...http://www.sqlusa.com/bestpractices/[/url]
Don't worry there is soap for your eyes. Then if you read some of the content you may want to find a shotgun and just kill the internet. They even have a page that goes into great detail about the "best" way to construct nested cursors.
http://sqlusa.com/bestpractices2005/doublecursor/[/url]
:w00t:
Now that I've recovered from the stroke all those flashing lights caused... I made the mistake of reading the parameter sniffing article. I'll be weeping over here if anyone needs me.
I thought the piece on commenting a stored procedure was decent. It's hard to argue with:
1. Don't document anything obvious to other database developer
2. Document anything not obvious
😉
There are a few things around that are decent but in general from what I saw there was far more bad advice than good. And those flashing lights...I am going to have nightmares for months. 1997 called and wants their animated gifs back.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
June 5, 2014 at 1:07 pm
The Dixie Flatline (6/5/2014)
I thought the piece on commenting a stored procedure was decent. It's hard to argue with:1. Don't document anything obvious to other database developer
2. Document anything not obvious
😉
Actually it's incredibly easy to argue with, because it assumes universal agreement on what is or is not obvious to another database developer. That's such a subjective concept that it is not only not objectively useful, it's real bullshit; so those two points are, in effect, meaningless nonsense.
Tom
June 5, 2014 at 2:15 pm
The 😉 was intended to denote sarcasm, guys.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
June 5, 2014 at 5:01 pm
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (6/5/2014)
Grant Fritchey (6/5/2014)
Please, please, please, bestester behavior, no piling on of any kind (or I'll delete the posts and I can do that, BWA-HA-HA-HA, THE POWER!, ahem, where was I), but I just had my first "In-memory sucks because I can't violate the laws of spacetime with it and it doesn't perform miracles" post. I thought I'd share. I'm positive it's just the first of hundreds, if not thousands, of these.And I reiterate, be nice. I think I've already been overly churlish, so we don't need anyone adding to it.
I thought it was some interesting points he had, he's doing the right thing, running tests, examining behavior. Running out of a typically scarce resource is precisely the area he should see ahead of time, he actually says he's evaluating it in a test situation, in my opinion he's doing the right thing and mentioning behavior that I'm now hoping will get more explanation in other threads. Thats a key point with a resource thats scarce, "what happens when you run out of it or it is otherwise unexpectedly consumed." He was up front with knowing he had more table than memory on point #1, so I don't know why you focused on it, why did you? Microsoft's software is informed of the amount of ram available and it let him declare the table as such, so he ran his test. Even more so, he TESTED, in a TEST situation, and I'm going to give him props on that, and maybe I'm just being thick on what you are on about.
I didn't see you address point 2, and an "i don't know" on point 3, so I guess I'm missing what Jason thought was said, I didn't see what was said that could have helped with point 2, what was it?
The designation of standard behavior as bugs got to me. Yes, you can over-allocate servers and you'll get errors. What did that prove? That's something you've been able to do way before in-memory tables came along. Try setting the max server memory to 10mb sometime. That was a really cool crash, but the fact that Microsoft let me load a gun, aim it at my foot and pull the trigger isn't a bug. I just couldn't believe that was one of the "shortcomings" of in-memory. Then the next one was that SQL Server behaved the way it always behaves, filling memory as queries are run. Shock. Not a bug. The last thing was something, but in all likelihood, completely unrelated to in-memory. In fact, I think Jason nailed it, he rebooted the machine in the middle of some transactions.
It just read like a diatribe against in-memory tables (and I'm not saying they're awesome, have you seen the list of restrictions) based on really bad testing, but with no apparent question that I could see. The site is for questions, not oddball blog posts with faulty premises. But, as I said, I was overly churlish.
I'm going to be honest with you, as far as 2014 memory optimized tables(?) go, I don't know what standard behavior even is. I sure hope it isn't using 10 of 20 or so gigs for a table and having the server go belly up after a single user queries it a bit.
I SUSPECT that theres more to the story, but because of the tone and direction the thread took, I'm hazarding a guess that this story is DONE as far as that page goes, and this thread that could have been informative to folks will cease to be so.
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