March 18, 2014 at 1:33 pm
Sean Lange (3/18/2014)
1 hour and 15 minutes until vacation. I am ready!!! We are taking the kids on a surprise trip to Branson for a few days. See you all next week.
Sweet. Enjoy your time off with your family and try not to think about work until you get back. Don't worry...I find that it's always there when I return. 😛
March 18, 2014 at 1:37 pm
Ed Wagner (3/18/2014)
Sean Lange (3/18/2014)
1 hour and 15 minutes until vacation. I am ready!!! We are taking the kids on a surprise trip to Branson for a few days. See you all next week.Sweet. Enjoy your time off with your family and try not to think about work until you get back. Don't worry...I find that it's always there when I return. 😛
Thanks. I have one of those rare jobs where I get to leave work at the office when I go home already. 😛
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March 18, 2014 at 2:09 pm
Sean Lange (3/18/2014)
1 hour and 15 minutes until vacation. I am ready!!! We are taking the kids on a surprise trip to Branson for a few days. See you all next week.
Enjoy. Hope you get good weather.
We have spring break next week and 2 days in the mountains of CO. We're hoping for bad weather 😛
March 18, 2014 at 2:12 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (3/18/2014)
Sean Lange (3/18/2014)
1 hour and 15 minutes until vacation. I am ready!!! We are taking the kids on a surprise trip to Branson for a few days. See you all next week.Enjoy. Hope you get good weather.
We have spring break next week and 2 days in the mountains of CO. We're hoping for bad weather 😛
Bad weather during spring break in the CO mountains means sunshine and 60 degrees. You are hoping for excellent weather, 25 degrees and 12+ inches of fresh powder.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
March 18, 2014 at 2:36 pm
Sean Lange (3/18/2014)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (3/18/2014)
Sean Lange (3/18/2014)
1 hour and 15 minutes until vacation. I am ready!!! We are taking the kids on a surprise trip to Branson for a few days. See you all next week.Enjoy. Hope you get good weather.
We have spring break next week and 2 days in the mountains of CO. We're hoping for bad weather 😛
Bad weather during spring break in the CO mountains means sunshine and 60 degrees. You are hoping for excellent weather, 25 degrees and 12+ inches of fresh powder.
Was in Missouri last Friday.
No snow! And 63 degrees.
Too bad it was a one day trip.
Set myself a record I never hope to break - 1470 miles in 24 hours of driving.
Dropped off a rebuilt transmission, picked up a complete rear end.
4.33 Posi for the GTO.
Hauled home in the Aveo!
Priceless was the look on the guy's face when I said it would fit in back.
Now you know I'm crazy! 😀
Can't wait until the garage is warm enough to start wrenching.
March 18, 2014 at 7:35 pm
Greg Edwards-268690 (3/17/2014)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (3/17/2014)
Lots of repetition in the explanations here. Anyone have a good entity example that shows the difference? As I explain this, it sounds as though "more detail in the logical model" is what everyone thinks, but I'm not sure that's a good definition.See if this[/url] is clear enough.
There is overlap. Each adds to the picture, where physical gets into the specific platform.
It isn't clear enough. In fact it's pretensious drivel, that assumes without any suggestion ast to why such a gross assumption might be true that the only possible conceptual model is an ERM.
Tom
March 19, 2014 at 5:13 am
Luis Cazares (3/18/2014)
I'm not sure if it'll still help, but there are some main differences between logical and conceptual design.- Conceptual design works with entities and attributes, while logical design works with tables and columns.
- Conceptual design is completely independent of the DBMS, while logical design is focused on a specific DBMS.
Logical design will be focussed on a particular type of DBMS, but shouldn't be focussed on a particular DBMS. Whether I use MS SQL Server or some other RDBMS is a decision that should be tajen after all (or at least most) of the logical design is complete, but choosing whether to use an RDBMS or a Network DBMS or a Hierarchical DBMS or a PS-Algol DBMS or one of the numerous other so-called OODBMSs or a single multiply-indexed file is one of the early steps of logical design.
- Attributes don't have data types assigned, while columns do.
- While you might be able to identify candidate keys on the conceptual design, you'll define the PKs and FKs in the logical design.
- Relations in the Conceptual design can be transformed into tables in the logical design (mostly for many-to-many relations).
:w00t:. Assuming you start from an ERM, there are no relations in the conceptual model; only entities with attributes which have domains, relationships between entities, and business rules which determine which states that the model without the rules could represent are unacceptable because they are not valid starting states and no series of valid operations could lead to them from a valid start state. The columns may need more than just datatypes in the physical model, because to represent a domain you may need a not just a data type but a check constraint too - and even worse, you may need more than one column to represent a domain and that can lead to extra tables in the physical design - so a logical model using tables will need more than just data types for its columns. Because the business rules are in the conceptual model, the foreign keys can be determined from it as easily (as can the candidate keys (and so can unique constraints involving nullable columns, as of course can check constraints implied by domain definition) - otherwise there would be no foreign keys in the logical model. Additional columns are sometimes introduced in the physical model to provide new candidate keys (this happens if the physical model needs surrogate keys for some reason) and this implies a different representation of the foreign keys from that which existed in the logical model.
Most people will skip conceptual design and start at the logical design (some might even start with the physical design and we all know how that ends up).
As someone else said, the conceptual and logical design overlap when the designer is experienced in designing schemata which conform to the relational model. That can end up just as badly as starting with the physical model when the relational model is the wrong model for the job, and also tends to have bad results when a novice who hasn't yet absorbed the relational model doesn't try to formulate a conceptual model first.
Unfortunately there are many novices with decades of experience out there, mostly employed at tax-payers'expense whether working directly for government or for some large organisation that a government contracts to screw up its IT for it. :angry:
Tom
March 19, 2014 at 9:16 am
Thank you Tom.
I knew you would come to correct me or explain further what I was trying to say. I totally agree with your post and it shows that I usually have troubles expressing myself. 🙂
March 20, 2014 at 12:15 pm
As someone else said, the conceptual and logical design overlap when the designer is experienced in designing schemata which conform to the relational model.
Hm, I don't think anyone said it quite like that. If that was me, then yeah, that's what I said. Uh-huh. :hehe:
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
March 21, 2014 at 5:48 am
Well, today is going to be a big day for the wife and I, almost as big as when I switched jobs...
Today we meet with the builders to go over the finalized plans for our new house!
:cool::w00t:
While it's not a "custom" design, it's built from a basic plan and a set of options we could add on, it's still going to be a new-new house.
Room in the garage for both our cars, room in the basement (a basement! I'd almost forgotten what one is, what with only having a crawl under our current house) for a nice 4-post server rack (among other things,) going to have a conduit pre-installed for cabling runs from the basement to the 2nd floor, more space for the wife and I, etc.
Of course, all the incindental stuff we're going to need or find we need after we move in is going to cost (fence to keep the dog in, the 4-post rack, etc,) but still...
:w00t:
March 21, 2014 at 5:53 am
jasona.work (3/21/2014)
Well, today is going to be a big day for the wife and I, almost as big as when I switched jobs...Today we meet with the builders to go over the finalized plans for our new house!
:cool::w00t:
While it's not a "custom" design, it's built from a basic plan and a set of options we could add on, it's still going to be a new-new house.
Room in the garage for both our cars, room in the basement (a basement! I'd almost forgotten what one is, what with only having a crawl under our current house) for a nice 4-post server rack (among other things,) going to have a conduit pre-installed for cabling runs from the basement to the 2nd floor, more space for the wife and I, etc.
Of course, all the incindental stuff we're going to need or find we need after we move in is going to cost (fence to keep the dog in, the 4-post rack, etc,) but still...
:w00t:
Congratulations, Jason. A very exciting time indeed. Enjoy it.
March 21, 2014 at 10:27 am
Congratulations Jason, that sounds great.
March 24, 2014 at 10:18 am
jasona.work (3/21/2014)
Well, today is going to be a big day for the wife and I, almost as big as when I switched jobs...Today we meet with the builders to go over the finalized plans for our new house!
:cool::w00t:
While it's not a "custom" design, it's built from a basic plan and a set of options we could add on, it's still going to be a new-new house.
Room in the garage for both our cars, room in the basement (a basement! I'd almost forgotten what one is, what with only having a crawl under our current house) for a nice 4-post server rack (among other things,) going to have a conduit pre-installed for cabling runs from the basement to the 2nd floor, more space for the wife and I, etc.
Of course, all the incindental stuff we're going to need or find we need after we move in is going to cost (fence to keep the dog in, the 4-post rack, etc,) but still...
:w00t:
Don't forget to have 2 network cables run to opposite sides of each room, going down to your basement. (Unless you plan on using wireless everywhere)
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
March 24, 2014 at 1:01 pm
I don't know why, but this sort of thing scares me.
March 24, 2014 at 1:05 pm
Lynn Pettis (3/24/2014)
I don't know why, but this sort of thing scares me.
WOW! Now that's enough to scare anyone. Just think...he has access to the server. :w00t:
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