October 5, 2013 at 6:29 pm
Jeff Moden (10/5/2013)
GilaMonster (10/5/2013)
A lot of the gaming forums are starting to moderate heavily. Don't think they have much choice anymore, the amount of vile, abusive, hate type comments was just getting too much.Heh... another good reason for me to avoid such diversions. It's amazing what people will say to each other when a little anonymity is allowed. Same goes with some of the responses to articles on Yahoo, etc. There's some pretty nasty stuff out there.
Yeah. Believe it or not on average (out of what I've seen) political articles had less vile comments than gaming forums. I've seen death threats, threats of other forms of violence, comments urging others to violence, etc, etc, over computer games.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 5, 2013 at 7:56 pm
GilaMonster (10/5/2013)
Jeff Moden (10/5/2013)
GilaMonster (10/5/2013)
A lot of the gaming forums are starting to moderate heavily. Don't think they have much choice anymore, the amount of vile, abusive, hate type comments was just getting too much.Heh... another good reason for me to avoid such diversions. It's amazing what people will say to each other when a little anonymity is allowed. Same goes with some of the responses to articles on Yahoo, etc. There's some pretty nasty stuff out there.
Yeah. Believe it or not on average (out of what I've seen) political articles had less vile comments than gaming forums. I've seen death threats, threats of other forms of violence, comments urging others to violence, etc, etc, over computer games.
Unbelievable. And, like you said, all over a blasted computer game. Heh... come to think of it, I may have interviewed one of these folks recently. NOT someone I'd want to work with at all.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 5, 2013 at 8:12 pm
Speaking of "unbelievable", is [font="Arial Black"]THIS[/font] all that a Master's degree + the ability to walk on water is worth nowadays?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 6, 2013 at 7:06 am
Jeff Moden (10/5/2013)
Speaking of "unbelievable", is [font="Arial Black"]THIS[/font] all that a Master's degree + the ability to walk on water is worth nowadays?
But they have phone reimbursement. ;>)
Oh, that must mean they expect to call a lot at all hours too.
October 6, 2013 at 11:20 am
Greg Edwards-268690 (10/6/2013)
Jeff Moden (10/5/2013)
Speaking of "unbelievable", is [font="Arial Black"]THIS[/font] all that a Master's degree + the ability to walk on water is worth nowadays?But they have phone reimbursement. ;>)
Oh, that must mean they expect to call a lot at all hours too.
BWAAA-HAAA!!! I was thinking the very same thing!
Even if I had one and they actually had an appropriate salary, I wouldn't work for a company that required its DBAs to have Master Degrees unless I was at wits end trying to find a job. Sounds way too much like a club for "Ring Knockers".
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 6, 2013 at 11:32 am
I'm not actually looking for a job but it's sometimes a good thing to check on what the going rates are for different jobs. I'm seeing a fair number of DBA and "master Sql Developer" jobs in the UK for 25-30K pounds. In US dollars, the high end of that is only about 48K USD. Is the cost of living in the UK that low or are the jobs that fall into that range "low ball" postings?
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 6, 2013 at 11:34 am
Jeff Moden (10/6/2013)
Greg Edwards-268690 (10/6/2013)
Jeff Moden (10/5/2013)
Speaking of "unbelievable", is [font="Arial Black"]THIS[/font] all that a Master's degree + the ability to walk on water is worth nowadays?But they have phone reimbursement. ;>)
Oh, that must mean they expect to call a lot at all hours too.
BWAAA-HAAA!!! I was thinking the very same thing!
Even if I had one and they actually had an appropriate salary, I wouldn't work for a company that required its DBAs to have Master Degrees unless I was at wits end trying to find a job. Sounds way too much like a club for "Ring Knockers".
It isn't required for my position, but I have a Masters degree.
October 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm
Jeff Moden (10/6/2013)
I'm not actually looking for a job but it's sometimes a good thing to check on what the going rates are for different jobs. I'm seeing a fair number of DBA and "master Sql Developer" jobs in the UK for 25-30K pounds. In US dollars, the high end of that is only about 48K USD. Is the cost of living in the UK that low or are the jobs that fall into that range "low ball" postings?
Yes, those are definitely "low ball" postings. A kid fresh out of university with a poor grade bachelors degree, not a very good university at that, and no experience at all, might get £25k (depends on location, salaries vary quite widely by region of the country). With a good degree from a good university he might get £30k as a trainee DBA for a merchant bank, but there are not terribly many jobs that would pay that to a new graduate with no experience and only a bachelors degree, just a few now and again. There are a number of firms that stick to offering low amounts in the hope of persuading government that because they get no useful applicants there must be a skills shortage so they must be allowed to import cheap labour from elsewhere, maybe it's their adverts that you are seeing?
Tom
October 6, 2013 at 4:50 pm
L' Eomot Inversé (10/6/2013)
There are a number of firms that stick to offering low amounts in the hope of persuading government that because they get no useful applicants there must be a skills shortage so they must be allowed to import cheap labour from elsewhere...
Hmmm... hadn't thought of that ploy before. It's amazing the things some people will go through. Since I didn't know certains would pull that kind of monkey business, I don't know if that's what I'm looking at or not.
I was aware that certain companies regularly low-balled on salary just because they were cheap. We have a couple here that I know of in the US. It turned out they were just ignorant of what it took to get some talent inhouse and then keep them. After years of getting people that were down on their luck that also left the company as soon as they found a higher paying job, the company I'm talking about finally figured out what the true costs of low-balling is in the form of lost learning and continuous training of new people when people smarten up and leave.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 7, 2013 at 1:53 am
Jeff Moden (10/5/2013)
I agree, Tom. Both moderated and unmoderated have problems. It think the best of both worlds are the unmoderated forums that ask you to interpret a graphic key to submit a post. At least that keeps the 'bots from posting SPAM.
Speaking as a moderator on a game forum, it's not just the bots you have to worry about--there are plenty of examples where it's pretty clear a human poster has posted the spam; I think they hire people to do it from countries where labour is dirt cheap. Such a person easily gets round a graphical captcha, for obvious reasons.
October 7, 2013 at 7:03 am
Jeff Moden (10/6/2013)
L' Eomot Inversé (10/6/2013)
There are a number of firms that stick to offering low amounts in the hope of persuading government that because they get no useful applicants there must be a skills shortage so they must be allowed to import cheap labour from elsewhere...Hmmm... hadn't thought of that ploy before. It's amazing the things some people will go through. Since I didn't know certains would pull that kind of monkey business, I don't know if that's what I'm looking at or not.
I was aware that certain companies regularly low-balled on salary just because they were cheap. We have a couple here that I know of in the US. It turned out they were just ignorant of what it took to get some talent inhouse and then keep them. After years of getting people that were down on their luck that also left the company as soon as they found a higher paying job, the company I'm talking about finally figured out what the true costs of low-balling is in the form of lost learning and continuous training of new people when people smarten up and leave.
I've also heard that some job postings that ask for an unusual mix of skills (SQL Server, FORTRAN, and AS/400 Control Language with MicroVAX hardware configuration experience for a SQL Server DBA, for example - and yes, I fully expect that there are threadizens with that very skill set) are from companies who have an H-1B visa holder who happens to have those skills in that job. The H-1B visa has to be renewed yearly, which requires the employer to prove that there is a shortage of qualified applicants who are citizens or permanent residents. Even though those skills aren't really used in the job, listing them as requirements discourages other applicants and can be used as a reason to exclude them from consideration. I'm somewhat ambivalent about that practice - I think an immigration policy designed to simply use foreign workers when the demand is high, then essentially discard them when the domestic talent pool catches up is somewhat callous, but I favor immigration reform with more liberal policies over gaming the system.
Jeff, I've read estimates of the cost of replacing an employee ranging from 1.5 to 3 times the annual salary of the position. The estimates seem to vary depending on whether they include factors such as lost productivity due to vacancy as well as recruitment and training costs. Regardless, that's a big chunk of change, and many employers have wised up about improving their hiring and retention practices to prevent revolving-door situations.
Jason Wolfkill
October 7, 2013 at 7:10 am
Jeff Moden (10/5/2013)
Speaking of "unbelievable", is [font="Arial Black"]THIS[/font] all that a Master's degree + the ability to walk on water is worth nowadays?
In some parts of the country that probably is. I've seen job descriptions in my area that expect more than that one at 60k. Of course, those are the jobs that never get filled. I actually had a recruiter contact me about a contract in NYC with a title of Data Architect that they wanted to pay 45/hr for. I told them I didn't know anyone who I'd consider a data architect that would even take a call at 3 times that in NYC.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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October 7, 2013 at 7:25 am
Jack Corbett (10/7/2013)
Jeff Moden (10/5/2013)
Speaking of "unbelievable", is [font="Arial Black"]THIS[/font] all that a Master's degree + the ability to walk on water is worth nowadays?In some parts of the country that probably is. I've seen job descriptions in my area that expect more than that one at 60k. Of course, those are the jobs that never get filled. I actually had a recruiter contact me about a contract in NYC with a title of Data Architect that they wanted to pay 45/hr for. I told them I didn't know anyone who I'd consider a data architect that would even take a call at 3 times that in NYC.
I'll take a call for three times that. But that's all you get. A phone conversation. My "friends" rate is more than three times that.
It's weird how we can charge that much, get away with it, but companies are still trying to hire people at insanely low salaries.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
October 7, 2013 at 7:27 am
Jack Corbett (10/7/2013)
I actually had a recruiter contact me about a contract in NYC with a title of Data Architect that they wanted to pay 45/hr for.
That's actually lower than my hourly rate was, and I live in a 3rd world country with an exchange rate sitting around 10:1 to the USD...
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 7, 2013 at 7:44 am
Grant Fritchey (10/7/2013)
Jack Corbett (10/7/2013)
Jeff Moden (10/5/2013)
Speaking of "unbelievable", is [font="Arial Black"]THIS[/font] all that a Master's degree + the ability to walk on water is worth nowadays?In some parts of the country that probably is. I've seen job descriptions in my area that expect more than that one at 60k. Of course, those are the jobs that never get filled. I actually had a recruiter contact me about a contract in NYC with a title of Data Architect that they wanted to pay 45/hr for. I told them I didn't know anyone who I'd consider a data architect that would even take a call at 3 times that in NYC.
I'll take a call for three times that. But that's all you get. A phone conversation. My "friends" rate is more than three times that.
It's weird how we can charge that much, get away with it, but companies are still trying to hire people at insanely low salaries.
My favorite part is that it is in in NYC. I'd charge more than that if I was being hired as a report writer in Franconia, NH, not to minimize what a report writer should or make. Actually I did try to charge more than that for reporting in Franconia NH and they didn't hire me, but it still isn't enough.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
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