September 26, 2013 at 5:32 pm
The Dixie Flatline (9/25/2013)
wolfkillj (9/25/2013)
What's the terminal velocity of a potato?European or African?
Unladen or laden with butter, sour cream, bacon bits, etc.?
Dang... I thought you were talking about the two best brands of hamster poo again.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
September 26, 2013 at 6:08 pm
The water cooler has done it again. Thanks Jeff et al for the laughs.:-D:-D:-D
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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September 26, 2013 at 7:34 pm
SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
The water cooler has done it again. Thanks Jeff et al for the laughs.:-D:-D:-D
Heh... after the last couple of weeks at work, pork chop acceleration technology just seemed like the right thing to talk about. 😀 Thanks for the diversion.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
September 27, 2013 at 2:21 am
Jeff Moden (9/26/2013)
SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
The water cooler has done it again. Thanks Jeff et al for the laughs.:-D:-D:-DHeh... after the last couple of weeks at work, pork chop acceleration technology just seemed like the right thing to talk about. 😀 Thanks for the diversion.
I second that.. and third 🙂
I'm waiting for the launcher to backfire, then we can have a real good laugh :w00t:
Far away is close at hand in the images of elsewhere.
Anon.
September 27, 2013 at 3:15 am
hisakimatama (9/26/2013)
SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
hisakimatama (9/26/2013)
Aaaaaaargh... And now, I need to fume :-P.Working with the company's vendor software, and one of the reports is coming across super-slow, about 10 minutes to retrieve about 150 items. Caught the code with Profiler, and... It's got a DISTINCT on a list of fields that's about 30 items long. Pluck the DISTINCT out, and the code drops from 10 minutes to run to three seconds, with identical results in all test cases.
Sadly, the report query isn't being held in a proc in the database; it's being assembled in the ASP.net front-end, and run from there. As far as I know of, I can't reach in there and rip the offending bit out. Is there some way of handling this, or should I introduce my forehead to my desk a few times? 🙂
So, the report is also an ASP .Net page (doesn't reference an SSRS or Crystal type report)?
Either way, it's a perfect example of evidence to beat on the vendor about. Take the evidence to them and tell them to fix it.
Yep, the report's an ASP.Net page too; there's a SSRS report base in the software, but it's unused.
And poking the vendor about the issue... *Shudder*. This company's had issues with the software almost from day 1 for all kinds of reasons. Their search functions are SQL-injectable, and we've reported it multiple times, but their response has always been "it's not a high priority". After digging in their code, it's riddled with NOLOCK, and uses READ UNCOMMITTED SNAPSHOT when they can't NOLOCK it (and then they NOLOCK the joins, whee!). Asked them if I could work with them to rewrite the NOLOCKs out, since the business has seen the negative side effects pretty regularly, and their general response was "it's our software, we wrote it this way, and if you don't like it, fine!". Slightly more verbose, but that was about it.
The unfortunate part of this is that we work in conjunction with several other agencies, and the software choice was basically passed down to us, so we don't really have a way out of it. I've been hired to get around some of it, like writing SSRS reports to replace their inefficient ones, but this particular case uses some logic that I can't quite crack. Maybe with a day or two of analyzing the structure, but it's a lot of joins between non-descriptive columns using criteria that don't have much tacit meaning.
Err... *Ahem*. Ok, ranting over :-P. Back to trying to get some method to work here! I might fume over it, but if I apply enough elbow grease, it should work eventually!
If you've seen the effects of NOLOCK in the wild, you might want to swing by Jason Strate's blog and point that out. There's a guy there who thinks it's a laboratory problem, not a real world one.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
September 27, 2013 at 7:20 am
David Burrows (9/27/2013)
Jeff Moden (9/26/2013)
SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
The water cooler has done it again. Thanks Jeff et al for the laughs.:-D:-D:-DHeh... after the last couple of weeks at work, pork chop acceleration technology just seemed like the right thing to talk about. 😀 Thanks for the diversion.
I second that.. and third 🙂
I'm waiting for the launcher to backfire, then we can have a real good laugh :w00t:
I'd rather see it go into promiscuous mode.
I wouldn't want to see Jeff have a workplace injury.
For the backfire, it would seem far more fitting on a return volley. :w00t:
September 27, 2013 at 7:38 am
jasona.work (9/20/2013)
It strikes me as somewhat amusing to see someone post a question, which is obviously not a "help me fix this" but is instead a "help me understand why this," and people immediately start trying to fix the problem.Didn't happen here, but over on the TechNet SQL forums. Person asked if someone could explain why Agent jobs still work when SA owns them but is disabled, but fail when a different account (belonging to the SysAdmin role) owns them and is disabled.
Pointed him to a posting on SQLBlog which relatively clearly explained the reasons...
Any chance you can post the link so I can read it? I haven't had that issue yet, but I'd like to read up on it.
September 27, 2013 at 7:40 am
Grant Fritchey (9/27/2013)
hisakimatama (9/26/2013)
SQLRNNR (9/26/2013)
hisakimatama (9/26/2013)
Aaaaaaargh... And now, I need to fume :-P.Working with the company's vendor software, and one of the reports is coming across super-slow, about 10 minutes to retrieve about 150 items. Caught the code with Profiler, and... It's got a DISTINCT on a list of fields that's about 30 items long. Pluck the DISTINCT out, and the code drops from 10 minutes to run to three seconds, with identical results in all test cases.
Sadly, the report query isn't being held in a proc in the database; it's being assembled in the ASP.net front-end, and run from there. As far as I know of, I can't reach in there and rip the offending bit out. Is there some way of handling this, or should I introduce my forehead to my desk a few times? 🙂
So, the report is also an ASP .Net page (doesn't reference an SSRS or Crystal type report)?
Either way, it's a perfect example of evidence to beat on the vendor about. Take the evidence to them and tell them to fix it.
Yep, the report's an ASP.Net page too; there's a SSRS report base in the software, but it's unused.
And poking the vendor about the issue... *Shudder*. This company's had issues with the software almost from day 1 for all kinds of reasons. Their search functions are SQL-injectable, and we've reported it multiple times, but their response has always been "it's not a high priority". After digging in their code, it's riddled with NOLOCK, and uses READ UNCOMMITTED SNAPSHOT when they can't NOLOCK it (and then they NOLOCK the joins, whee!). Asked them if I could work with them to rewrite the NOLOCKs out, since the business has seen the negative side effects pretty regularly, and their general response was "it's our software, we wrote it this way, and if you don't like it, fine!". Slightly more verbose, but that was about it.
The unfortunate part of this is that we work in conjunction with several other agencies, and the software choice was basically passed down to us, so we don't really have a way out of it. I've been hired to get around some of it, like writing SSRS reports to replace their inefficient ones, but this particular case uses some logic that I can't quite crack. Maybe with a day or two of analyzing the structure, but it's a lot of joins between non-descriptive columns using criteria that don't have much tacit meaning.
Err... *Ahem*. Ok, ranting over :-P. Back to trying to get some method to work here! I might fume over it, but if I apply enough elbow grease, it should work eventually!
If you've seen the effects of NOLOCK in the wild, you might want to swing by Jason Strate's blog and point that out. There's a guy there who thinks it's a laboratory problem, not a real world one.
I have written a number of times here on SSC about a real world situation that cost some serious damage to a major health care provider where I was doing some consulting work. I will see if I can find where I wrote that up and post it over there too.
The basic gist of it is that the "uber DBA" decided to mandate using NOLOCK on every single query in the entire system. They spent a couple months with close to a dozen people adding that hint everywhere. Then because this is very high volume OLTP system that disburses funds for a debit card you can imagine the challenges of trying to explain to business why we were seeing so many instances of denying payment when there were funds or approving payment when there were not enough funds.
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Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
September 27, 2013 at 8:04 am
Jan Van der Eecken (9/20/2013)
wolfkillj (9/20/2013)
... The filibuster ...I don't think I'm the lone non-US citizen who doesn't quite understand what the Filibuster is all about. The way I understand it is that some Representative keeps on talking (without sitting down) about one or other topic that's up for a vote in the House in order to make sure that the bill in question isn't put up for a vote within a certain allotted time. Am I right?
Jan,
If you want to see a decent example of a filibuster while being vaguely entertained, check out the old 30s or 40s movie called Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. Jimmy Stewart played the title character of Mr. Smith and this is how most U.S. citizens got introduced to the notion.
There's also a fantastic West Wing episode where one senator's granddaughter is autistic and so he's filibustering a budget or health care bill. I can't remember what that episode is called, though.
September 27, 2013 at 8:06 am
Lynn Pettis (9/21/2013)
I learned more when I became more involved on SSC and started trying to help others. Several key people showed me better ways and I learned from them. My suggestion, don't just lurk. Try to solve some of the problems posted even if you don't post a solution. You can still compare whet you develop to what others may post.
That was me. I learn more by doing than by reading. Being corrected and offering my view on things taught me a lot.
September 27, 2013 at 8:21 am
Lynn Pettis (9/26/2013)
I was notified this evening that my position state side has been cut as part of company layoff. Unlike my fellow workers state side whose last day of employment is tomorrow, I still have a job here in Afghanistan. What I don't have is a job to come home to now. It looks like I will also be extending out here until February 2014 at this time as well (Yea me!! And yes, I am excited about this).
OUCH! And glad you are excited about this.
My ex-wife and I are getting back together. Yes, we are giving reconciliation a try.
Congratulations and best wishes.
Hey, I've been remiss in sending a care package. Going to remedy that shortly. Are there any toys or games you'd like sent in addition to food?
September 27, 2013 at 9:21 am
Greg Edwards-268690 (9/27/2013)
...For the backfire, it would seem far more fitting on a return volley. :w00t:
:ermm: ... a boomerang pork chop ... 😉
Far away is close at hand in the images of elsewhere.
Anon.
September 27, 2013 at 9:24 am
Today, I'm really pissed off with the database and network administrators. Because of the lack of good planning and best practices, instead of restrictions to our users permissions, they decided to block our access over the firewall. Now we can't verify our information, make any corrections (many of them derived from the policy that mandates to use NOLOCK on every table) or correct our processes during normal labor hours and will have to do them late at night (which won't count as extra hours).
I feel frustrated and want to borrow Jeff's cannon.
September 27, 2013 at 9:34 am
Luis Cazares (9/27/2013)
Today, I'm really pissed off with the database and network administrators. Because of the lack of good planning and best practices, instead of restrictions to our users permissions, they decided to block our access over the firewall. Now we can't verify our information, make any corrections (many of them derived from the policy that mandates to use NOLOCK on every table) or correct our processes during normal labor hours and will have to do them late at night (which won't count as extra hours).I feel frustrated and want to borrow Jeff's cannon.
I hope you don't deal with anybody's money, or that any decision made from that system will have any impact on anything in the real world. What a horrible mandate. I worked as consultant once where the DBA mandated this...see my post on the previous page for the synopsis. What a timebomb.
_______________________________________________________________
Need help? Help us help you.
Read the article at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/ for best practices on asking questions.
Need to split a string? Try Jeff Modens splitter http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Tally+Table/72993/.
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 1 – Converting Rows to Columns - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/T-SQL/63681/
Cross Tabs and Pivots, Part 2 - Dynamic Cross Tabs - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Crosstab/65048/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 1) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69953/
Understanding and Using APPLY (Part 2) - http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/APPLY/69954/
September 27, 2013 at 9:37 am
Luis Cazares (9/27/2013)
Today, I'm really pissed off with the database and network administrators. Because of the lack of good planning and best practices, instead of restrictions to our users permissions, they decided to block our access over the firewall. Now we can't verify our information, make any corrections (many of them derived from the policy that mandates to use NOLOCK on every table) or correct our processes during normal labor hours and will have to do them late at night (which won't count as extra hours).I feel frustrated and want to borrow Jeff's cannon.
Sounds like it is time to start looking for another job. If I was told I'd have to work extra hours with no extra pay, I'd be looking.
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When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
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What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
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