Are the posted questions getting worse?
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Revenant (1/16/2012)
Gianluca Sartori (1/16/2012)
SQL Kiwi (1/16/2012)
Gianluca Sartori (1/16/2012)
Also, I don't find 2012 SSMS to be slow at all, even in a VM. I must admit that my laptop is a very fast machine though.That must have been tough for you to admit, well done :rolleyes:
I was exaggerating of course, it's fine in use, but can be noticeably slower than 2008 SSMS to start the very first time after a reboot. Aaron Bertrand has a big thing about it IIRC.
I did some tests:
1) SSMS 2012 loads in 32 seconds the first time and 4 seconds on subsequent runs
2) SSMS 2008R2 loads in 4 seconds the first time and 2 seconds on subsequent runs
It's a bit like comparing apples to oranges (2012 is on a VM on a spin disk and 2008 R2 is on physical HW with SSD drive) but I see your point.
Hmm... Gianluca, could you - would you - please describe your laptop in more detail? Aside from type and speed of the processor, how much memory, size of the HD and its rpms, I would also like to hear whether you are using a defragmenter, say DisKeeper, that places frequently used programs into the most advantageous spot on the drive (meaning that longer used programs get preference over new ones).
I would really appreciate getting this info.
CPU: Intel core i7 2820QM @2.30 GHz (quad-core sandy bridge w/ hyperthreading, 16-way 8MB L3 cache)
RAM: 8 GB (another 8 GB on their way from MemoryC)
DISK:
1 Seagate Momentus 3Gb/s 750-GB Hard Drive 7200 RPM
with 2 partitions:
D: for data (projects, sql server data, documents etc...)
E: for virtual machines
1 MyDigitalSSD 128 GB mSata SSD
C: for windows OS
I'm not defragmenting the SSD at all. I'm not an expert, but seems to be a bad idea.
I defragment the data volumes on the spin disk once a week.
Hope this is the info you were looking for.
-- Gianluca Sartori
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Jeff Moden (1/16/2012)
I'll reserve my opinion on this but thought I'd give everyone a heads up...http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/English_Wikipedia_anti-SOPA_blackout
Why reserve your opinion?
I'm sure that lots of people here (including myself) would love to hear it.
-- Gianluca Sartori
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Perhaps SSC should go dark too. Or just the 'getting worse' questions 🙂
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi -
SQL Kiwi (1/17/2012)
Perhaps SSC should go dark too. Or just the 'getting worse' questions 🙂Maybe twitter too?
I think it would be worth the statement.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
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SQLRNNR (1/17/2012)
SQL Kiwi (1/17/2012)
Perhaps SSC should go dark too. Or just the 'getting worse' questions 🙂Maybe twitter too?
Well, seeing as the twitter CEO tweeted that wiki's actions is foolish, probably not.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverabilityWe walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass -
Jeff Moden (1/16/2012)
I'll reserve my opinion on this but thought I'd give everyone a heads up...http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/English_Wikipedia_anti-SOPA_blackout
The House of Representatives have permanently shelved this abomination. We just need to light a fire under Harry Reid to do the same in the Senate. Might be tough. The Dems get LOTS of money from Hollywood and Hollywood really loves this horror show.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore RooseveltAuthor of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning -
Personally I just find it hilarious that the US denounces that kind of censorship in China and Iran, then considers implementing it at home. "Do what I say, not what I do" Again.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverabilityWe walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass -
Jeff Moden (1/16/2012)
I'll reserve my opinion on this but thought I'd give everyone a heads up...http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/English_Wikipedia_anti-SOPA_blackout
I believe (sadly) that this will have no effect at all on the majority of members of either party in either chamber.
Most of the republicans will continue to support these outrageous proposals because they will do anything to upset the white house, regardless of whether it's ruinously bad for the republic or not, and most of the democrats because they are in the pockets of the plutocracy (the real government of the USA?) regardless of whether it is utterly against the interests of the American people.
Yes, the MPAA and associates have demonstrated that many American politicians are honest: once bought they stay bought.
Now I'll retire to my flame-proof shelter while all you Americans get your flammenwurfers pointed in my direction.
Tom
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L' Eomot Inversé (1/17/2012)
Jeff Moden (1/16/2012)
I'll reserve my opinion on this but thought I'd give everyone a heads up...http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/English_Wikipedia_anti-SOPA_blackout
I believe (sadly) that this will have no effect at all on the majority of members of either party in either chamber.
Most of the republicans will continue to support these outrageous proposals because they will do anything to upset the white house, regardless of whether it's ruinously bad for the republic or not, and most of the democrats because they are in the pockets of the plutocracy (the real government of the USA?) regardless of whether it is utterly against the interests of the American people.
Yes, the MPAA and associates have demonstrated that many American politicians are honest: once bought they stay bought.
Now I'll retire to my flame-proof shelter while all you Americans get your flammenwurfers pointed in my direction.
No flames. But at this point, the Republican controlled chamber has shelved this legislature permamently. The Democrat controlled chamber has not. In this one instance, for whatever reason, one party has done the right thing. Just so things are clear.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore RooseveltAuthor of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning -
Grant Fritchey (1/17/2012)
No flames. But at this point, the Republican controlled chamber has shelved this legislature permamently. The Democrat controlled chamber has not. In this one instance, for whatever reason, one party has done the right thing. Just so things are clear.Evidently I was a bit out of date. Good news, rather surprising, well done the republicans on this one. Perhaps there's some hope for good legislators in the USA yet after all.
Tom
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GilaMonster (1/17/2012)
Personally I just find it hilarious that the US denounces that kind of censorship in China and Iran, then considers implementing it at home. "Do what I say, not what I do" Again.That's our national motto.
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Evil Kraig F (1/13/2012)
GSquared (1/13/2012)
That's my preference, pretty much spelled out. (I wrote much the same, but with somewhat less detail in the original thread we're discussing.)Catastophic disaster to break it up by using Raiserror that way? Probably not. But I do consider it a mistake in terms of future effort being created where it could easily be avoided.
Does that clarify why I consider it a mildly bad idea?
I disagree simply for one reason. If I don't raiseerror on a logic failure for a multi-step job, it will continue processing after a problem has been located. I want to force the job to stop period, and thus, must send a failure to the job so the next step does not proceed.
The rest I agree with. A multi-structure failure component (email to the business owners and dev responsible for the data, another to the DBAs requesting them to deactivate the job until further notice, etc) is preferable in these cases.
sp_stop_job
No need to raise an error to stop a job.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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L' Eomot Inversé (1/13/2012)
GSquared (1/13/2012)
On the Raiserror piece being right for the job, my only problem with it is that it requires significantly more documentation when used that way than a more explicit process would. It'll work, but it's going to be (a) harder to document, (b) harder to trace back if being debugged (now or later), (c) harder to refactor later, (d) easier to break without knowing it.It creates dependencies in the SQL script for the SQL Agent notifications to be set up properly to handle that alert, for error handling in the job itself to be set up to pass it along correctly (Quit Job Reporting Failure), and for that alert to always go to the person who would receive SQL Agent job failure alerts, which isn't guaranteed in an organization of any size/scope.
Generally speaking, the DBA isn't responsible for the contents of the database, in terms of knowing what rows go in what tables. He doesn't keep track of who customers are, for example, he just makes sure that dbo.Customers is correctly built, indexes on it are maintained properly, et al. So an alert that "there's a row missing in table X" should, in most businesses in most cases, really be the business of whomever is in charge of table X's contents, which isn't usually the DBA. But if it's just being sent to the person who monitors SQL Agent jobs, which usually is the DBA, it then requires that the DBA (a) know to whom it should be forwarded, (b) do so in a timely fashion.
A more explicit handling, including checking for the row's existence directly (If Exists() construct), an alert that goes directly to the correct person/group (best if it's not a personal e-mail address; I prefer groups, even if it's just one person, for expansion of scope and ease in personnel change situations), and then an explicit termination of the job, all built right into where the Raiserror is being done, does add a few lines of code to the T-SQL object, but makes it much simpler to document, less dependent on decoupled external variables, less prone to human error ("What do you mean I forwarded it to the wrong person?"), and easier to debug/refactor it later. It's all in one place, and very easy to sight-read the functionality. The business-process is right there in one place in the code, not in at least three places with no explicit dependency.
That's my preference, pretty much spelled out. (I wrote much the same, but with somewhat less detail in the original thread we're discussing.)
Catastophic disaster to break it up by using Raiserror that way? Probably not. But I do consider it a mistake in terms of future effort being created where it could easily be avoided.
Does that clarify why I consider it a mildly bad idea?
Oh, I don't actually think this was a good example of where to use raiserror: not every use of raiserror to cause an immediate exit is sensible, and not every such use is wrong. We always need t look at the individual case and its ramifications, and decide whether it;s appropriate or not. Because I don't know the structure or that job, or how deeply buried inside that structure this test is, I don't know whether this is a case where using raiserror is esnsible or not. The question should have been raised, but not (since Jafred also didn't have the knowledge I'm missing) with a "this way is wrong" beginning ("this way is usually wrong, so please make sure it's right here" is the appropriate introduction). Your post in that thread seemed to me to be taking that view, and if the OP had taken offence at that I would probably have joined in the general condemnation of his attitude.
One thing I should be clear on: I don't for a moment believe that Jared's motivation for the post was what I suggested it might have been interpreted as being; I just think that it is an interpretation that could easily be assumed by someone reading the stuff quickly, especially someone overstressed and a bit paranoid (which is where I guess the OP is). As for the OP's posts in other threads - well, the ones I can't see may be scrambled because he was so embarrassed at being such a prat that he wanted to conceal the evidence of his shame (that's the charitable interpretation, but I guess maybe most people here think I am too charitable).
Oh don't get me wrong. I'm definitely not saying I'd never use Raiserror in a proc in a job, to stop the job and send an alert and all that. I just wouldn't normally do so in the case of expected data not being found, in most cases.
The main reason for that is that data-content is usually some user's domain, not the DBA's, and alerts from failed jobs usually go to the DBA, not the appropriate user.
Is that applicable in the case at-hand? Possibly. I'd go so far as to say probably. But you're right that Jared was wrong to say "that's wrong". It's potentially wrong, but not definitely wrong.
If the data is in the DBA's domain (a lookup table for an ETL process, for example, might be a DBA's responsibility), then it might make sense to piggyback the data error into a failed job alert. Assuming there will never be a split in DBA job responsibilities (like in some larger companies) where one DBA might get job alerts and another might be responsible for the table in question.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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Sean Lange (1/13/2012)
I have to say this whole situation has left me feeling extremely reluctant to post on just about anything for fear that I come across as "one of those", or maybe I am one which would be even worse. It is unfortunate that the well was poisoned. This site has been a fantastic learning opportunity for myself as well as many others.Definitely not one of "those". Don't worry about it.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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SQLRNNR (1/16/2012)
Anybody else get a request like this recently?Not I.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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