Are the posted questions getting worse?
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Brandie Tarvin (12/29/2011)
GSquared (12/29/2011)
Brandie Tarvin (12/29/2011)
Question for those of you commenting on external drives. The few times I have tried it (both on a local db on my laptop and from a server remotely), I have been unable to get it to work. Plenty of space on the usb-connected drive, but SQL just errors out when I try to do it with a "not enough space" error.Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?
What kind of I/O throughput and latency do you get on the drive?
That's a good question. I'm not sure. One drive is a 320 GB Toshiba USB drive (4 x 3 inches and about 1 inch thick). Another is an Edge DiskGo. Neither drive has stats on them, both plug in solely via USB.
RE: Revenant's comments about latency, etc. These are small, personal databases on my SOHO that I'm trying to move between laptop / PC (faux server) so that I can play with SQL when I'm away from home. These are not work DBs, so I don't have to worry about security, blocked USB ports, or any of those issues.
There are disk speed test tools available (some are free). Test the disk. It's possible it's too slow for use this way.
I think a lot of laptop USB ports are also high-latency, but I can't cite anything or prove anything on that. I just seem to remember reading that somewhere. Could even be obsolete data. But, if true, it might make a difference. I tested a USB data drive on a very high-end computer with the latest bells and whistles on the ports, etc. Maybe that makes the difference.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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GSquared (12/29/2011)
There are disk speed test tools available (some are free). Test the disk. It's possible it's too slow for use this way.That's a good point. I'll check into those. MOF, I think I know where some of the free tools are if I can job my memory.
Thanks for the advice.
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Revenant (12/29/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (12/29/2011)
Revenant (12/29/2011)
Brandie Tarvin (12/29/2011)
Question for those of you commenting on external drives. The few times I have tried it (both on a local db on my laptop and from a server remotely), I have been unable to get it to work. Plenty of space on the usb-connected drive, but SQL just errors out when I try to do it with a "not enough space" error.Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?
Just a few thoughts:
External drives are insufficient - think a fire in the computer room.
USB drives are slow and they represent security risk. Our prod servers have USB ports disabled even when they are kept in a secure space.
Which leaves network drives as the most viable option - if you have a fast network.
I know a place where they are using a tape drive (yes, a tape drive) that backs up the business-critical database(s) around 2 AM and then spits the tape on a stainless steel slide that goes into an adjacent room. The tape slides into a fire-proof container that is right under sprinklers and guaranteed to withstand any fire, even without sprinklers, for two hours.
I once worked at a place that had the opposite of that setup.
The server room shared a wall with the kitchen. The server was on the opposite side of the wall from the stove. Backups were done randomly and infrequently and occasionally someone would take one of them home for safe-keeping.
Are they still in business? :w00t:
As far as I know, yes. They survived one kitchen fire when I was there, but didn't bother to make any changes after. Horrible run business from the top to the bottom, I can think of many reasons they should be out of business, but somehow they hang on.
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When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
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What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams -
Stefan Krzywicki (12/29/2011)
Revenant (12/29/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (12/29/2011)
Revenant (12/29/2011)
Brandie Tarvin (12/29/2011)
Question for those of you commenting on external drives. The few times I have tried it (both on a local db on my laptop and from a server remotely), I have been unable to get it to work. Plenty of space on the usb-connected drive, but SQL just errors out when I try to do it with a "not enough space" error.Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?
Just a few thoughts:
External drives are insufficient - think a fire in the computer room.
USB drives are slow and they represent security risk. Our prod servers have USB ports disabled even when they are kept in a secure space.
Which leaves network drives as the most viable option - if you have a fast network.
I know a place where they are using a tape drive (yes, a tape drive) that backs up the business-critical database(s) around 2 AM and then spits the tape on a stainless steel slide that goes into an adjacent room. The tape slides into a fire-proof container that is right under sprinklers and guaranteed to withstand any fire, even without sprinklers, for two hours.
I once worked at a place that had the opposite of that setup.
The server room shared a wall with the kitchen. The server was on the opposite side of the wall from the stove. Backups were done randomly and infrequently and occasionally someone would take one of them home for safe-keeping.
Are they still in business? :w00t:
As far as I know, yes. They survived one kitchen fire when I was there, but didn't bother to make any changes after. Horrible run business from the top to the bottom, I can think of many reasons they should be out of business, but somehow they hang on.
Those kind of places always seem to survive.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
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Jack Corbett (12/29/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (12/29/2011)
Revenant (12/29/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (12/29/2011)
Revenant (12/29/2011)
Brandie Tarvin (12/29/2011)
Question for those of you commenting on external drives. The few times I have tried it (both on a local db on my laptop and from a server remotely), I have been unable to get it to work. Plenty of space on the usb-connected drive, but SQL just errors out when I try to do it with a "not enough space" error.Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?
Just a few thoughts:
External drives are insufficient - think a fire in the computer room.
USB drives are slow and they represent security risk. Our prod servers have USB ports disabled even when they are kept in a secure space.
Which leaves network drives as the most viable option - if you have a fast network.
I know a place where they are using a tape drive (yes, a tape drive) that backs up the business-critical database(s) around 2 AM and then spits the tape on a stainless steel slide that goes into an adjacent room. The tape slides into a fire-proof container that is right under sprinklers and guaranteed to withstand any fire, even without sprinklers, for two hours.
I once worked at a place that had the opposite of that setup.
The server room shared a wall with the kitchen. The server was on the opposite side of the wall from the stove. Backups were done randomly and infrequently and occasionally someone would take one of them home for safe-keeping.
Are they still in business? :w00t:
As far as I know, yes. They survived one kitchen fire when I was there, but didn't bother to make any changes after. Horrible run business from the top to the bottom, I can think of many reasons they should be out of business, but somehow they hang on.
Those kind of places always seem to survive.
Too stupidly stubborn to realize they should die, I guess.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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Jack Corbett (12/29/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (12/29/2011)
Revenant (12/29/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (12/29/2011)
Revenant (12/29/2011)
Brandie Tarvin (12/29/2011)
Question for those of you commenting on external drives. The few times I have tried it (both on a local db on my laptop and from a server remotely), I have been unable to get it to work. Plenty of space on the usb-connected drive, but SQL just errors out when I try to do it with a "not enough space" error.Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?
Just a few thoughts:
External drives are insufficient - think a fire in the computer room.
USB drives are slow and they represent security risk. Our prod servers have USB ports disabled even when they are kept in a secure space.
Which leaves network drives as the most viable option - if you have a fast network.
I know a place where they are using a tape drive (yes, a tape drive) that backs up the business-critical database(s) around 2 AM and then spits the tape on a stainless steel slide that goes into an adjacent room. The tape slides into a fire-proof container that is right under sprinklers and guaranteed to withstand any fire, even without sprinklers, for two hours.
I once worked at a place that had the opposite of that setup.
The server room shared a wall with the kitchen. The server was on the opposite side of the wall from the stove. Backups were done randomly and infrequently and occasionally someone would take one of them home for safe-keeping.
Are they still in business? :w00t:
As far as I know, yes. They survived one kitchen fire when I was there, but didn't bother to make any changes after. Horrible run business from the top to the bottom, I can think of many reasons they should be out of business, but somehow they hang on.
Those kind of places always seem to survive.
I don't know what is more surprising that 1) those places continue to survive or 2) we continue to be surprised by them surviving.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events -
SQLRNNR (12/29/2011)
Jack Corbett (12/29/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (12/29/2011)
Revenant (12/29/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (12/29/2011)
Revenant (12/29/2011)
Brandie Tarvin (12/29/2011)
Question for those of you commenting on external drives. The few times I have tried it (both on a local db on my laptop and from a server remotely), I have been unable to get it to work. Plenty of space on the usb-connected drive, but SQL just errors out when I try to do it with a "not enough space" error.Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?
Just a few thoughts:
External drives are insufficient - think a fire in the computer room.
USB drives are slow and they represent security risk. Our prod servers have USB ports disabled even when they are kept in a secure space.
Which leaves network drives as the most viable option - if you have a fast network.
I know a place where they are using a tape drive (yes, a tape drive) that backs up the business-critical database(s) around 2 AM and then spits the tape on a stainless steel slide that goes into an adjacent room. The tape slides into a fire-proof container that is right under sprinklers and guaranteed to withstand any fire, even without sprinklers, for two hours.
I once worked at a place that had the opposite of that setup.
The server room shared a wall with the kitchen. The server was on the opposite side of the wall from the stove. Backups were done randomly and infrequently and occasionally someone would take one of them home for safe-keeping.
Are they still in business? :w00t:
As far as I know, yes. They survived one kitchen fire when I was there, but didn't bother to make any changes after. Horrible run business from the top to the bottom, I can think of many reasons they should be out of business, but somehow they hang on.
Those kind of places always seem to survive.
I don't know what is more surprising that 1) those places continue to survive or 2) we continue to be surprised by them surviving.
On a bit more serious note, I have seen several businesses that seemed to survive against all odds. I later found they were fronts for laundering drug money.
However, that does not mean they should run sloppy ops! 😉
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2011 was the year of the Monster, wonder how she can beat that next year :-D.
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Brandie Tarvin (12/29/2011)
GSquared (12/29/2011)
There are disk speed test tools available (some are free). Test the disk. It's possible it's too slow for use this way.That's a good point. I'll check into those. MOF, I think I know where some of the free tools are if I can job my memory.
Thanks for the advice.
Not only the disk speed but USB port itself matters a lot.
Version history
1.1.1 Prereleases
1.1.2 USB 1.0
1.1.3 USB 2.0
1.1.4 USB 3.0
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Ninja's_RGR'us (12/30/2011)
2011 was the year of the Monster, wonder how she can beat that next year :-D.I didn't even notice that.
GG Steve.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverabilityWe walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass -
GilaMonster (12/30/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (12/30/2011)
2011 was the year of the Monster, wonder how she can beat that next year :-D.I didn't even notice that.
GG Steve.
Good game Steve???
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Ninja's_RGR'us (12/30/2011)
Good game Steve???Err, yeah. Sorry. Too much online gaming lately.
On the plus side, an online play-by-post roleplaying game is better than nothing and can be a lot of fun (albeit slow). Still want to start up a tabletop game sometime, if I can find players and time, or maybe find an existing group looking for another player. My dice are feeling unwanted.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverabilityWe walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass -
I've fielded about a dozen forum questions about locking over the last couple of weeks, and in one of them, someone asked me to write a common-language article on the subject.
Is there a need for an article like that, or is there something I can just link to?
If there is a need for such an article, should I dig into that, or Gail/Paul/whomever, would you want that one?
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
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Jonathan Kehayias's book 'Troubleshooting SQL Server', chapter 6 - Blocking. There's about a 7 page 'summary' on locking, isolation levels, locking modes, etc. It's a free download from SimpleTalk (or purchase from Amazon)
Unless you want to go into more detail, approach from a different angle or similar, maybe just refer to that?
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverabilityWe walk in the dark places no others will enter
We stand on the bridge and no one may pass -
GSquared (12/30/2011)
I've fielded about a dozen forum questions about locking over the last couple of weeks, and in one of them, someone asked me to write a common-language article on the subject. Is there a need for an article like that, or is there something I can just link to? If there is a need for such an article, should I dig into that, or Gail/Paul/whomever, would you want that one?I rather lost track of the various Stairways, but glancing at the summary page I can't see anything specific about locking. Perhaps Steve would be interested in something that fits with those series? There are many books and other resources that cover locking (of course) but that's no reason not to write a G2 version. Sounds like it is something that interests you to write about, and that's more than half the battle.
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi
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