October 4, 2011 at 7:58 am
jcrawf02 (10/4/2011)
SQL Kiwi (10/3/2011)
Sean Lange (10/3/2011)
The images are replaced with "Thief" image because they were lifted.That's neat!
That's hilarious, but I doubt that's usually a viable option. Who is really that lazy that they don't copy over the images to their own host?
Do we really have to answer that? 😛 Seems like this conversation is proof that it happens, and probably more than anybody wants to realize.
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October 4, 2011 at 7:58 am
WayneS (10/3/2011)
@Paul: interesting new avatar. Were you the victim of a paintball attack?
hahahahaha
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"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
October 4, 2011 at 8:43 am
I am very sorry that I believed was performing a useful service by reposting some excellent ideas from other bloggers, and I apologize for not attributing credit to the original posters. I have removed the offending posts from the EMC Consulting blog and I can confirm you that this will not happen again.
October 4, 2011 at 9:58 am
L' Eomot Inversé (10/3/2011)
Roughly as Paul says - I distrust people who recruit on the basis of certs rather than achievements, and in particular the people who write job specs that are clearly just laundry lists (they tend to be the same set of people) not related to any real job.But I have gone where certification has been requested sometimes, if I have reason to believe I'm a good fit or if I know the outfit well enough to guess who to write to to avoid the HR filter.
I've never done any certifications because I regard them as meaningless. I see far too many adverts from "training" companies who offer to repeat the course as many times as necessary to cram you through, or give you your money back if you fail five times, so it's evidently all short term crammed memory parrot-fashion learning, nothing retained longterm and no indication how to exploit the knowledge if it were retained. I have known far too many people with vendor certifications who haven't the first idea about the things they are certified in. I've seen a few people who've done certifications simply because a certain number of vendor certified people are required to enrol the company in a particular kind of partner program, I've no objection to that (other than that I think it's a scam by the vendor to sell otherwise valueless certification services) but those people already had the knowledge concerned and good skills before they did the certs, and their certs didn't present me with any new information about those people.
Thanks for the clarification. I agree that making a decision based on certification alone is quite risky because it does not always give you a good picture of what the candidate is capable of doing. If I were writing a job posting, I don't think I would list a SQL certification as a requirement, but I might list it as desirable/optional since it exhibits a desire and dedication to continuing education. There are certainly other ways to show that (blogging, forums, user groups, etc.), but certification is a viable way of showing that dedication. If someone came in with a certification on their resume, they would likely get the hard questions first, rather than working their way up from easy to determine their skill level, and if it appeared that everything was ‘paper’, I’d be a little more frustrated than if they hadn’t listed it in the first place.
On the flip side (when looking at a job posting for myself), I understand that the requirements listed in the posting are a reflection on the company which put it up, and a company that focuses heavily on certification may have an environment or personnel that isn’t a good match for me. However, I also recognize that sometimes the person writing up the req is not always near the technology, and may not realize what all the certifications, key phrases, and abbreviations mean. If the company is one that I’m interested in and the work looks somewhat in line with what I can do and enjoy doing, it’s worth giving it a shot to see if I can get through and show what I’m capable of.
In full disclosure, I do have a few certifications, but I’m sure you guessed that. For me personally, it helps give me a regimented study schedule, goals, and motivation to keep myself up to date on new technology and make sure I have some breadth in areas I otherwise would not know much about. I don’t expect anyone to hire me based solely on my certs, but it has got me in the front door and allowed me to show my skills, which is a nice perk. For my coworkers, it’s been a motivating factor in gaining more depth, going outside their comfort zone and gaining skills that they would otherwise have just left up to me to do (It’s amazing how $125 of your own cash on the line helps someone really care about how ownership chaining works!).
The reason I asked you for your opinion (and will listen carefully whenever the conversation comes up) is that I have heard from a few people that certifications are actually a negative point in their opinion. Someone who listed a cert on their resume would have less opportunity for an interview than someone who did not. I did a quick tally in my head and those people seem to be about 1 in 10, so I still seek certifications and have them on my resume, but I’m conscious that not everyone feels that way and want to be sensitive to changes in opinion.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
October 4, 2011 at 11:44 am
skonagalla (10/4/2011)
I am very sorry that I believed was performing a useful service by reposting some excellent ideas from other bloggers, and I apologize for not attributing credit to the original posters. I have removed the offending posts from the EMC Consulting blog and I can confirm you that this will not happen again.
Thank you
October 4, 2011 at 11:45 am
L' Eomot Inversé (10/4/2011)
SQL Kiwi (10/4/2011)
I will, unusually, be supporting SA since the tradition here is to support whomever is playing Australia.That sounds like home, almost. The tradition in Scotland (at least for Rugby) is to support whomever is playing England.
I watched the replay of the last World Cup with England/SA on the flight to the UK. Somewhat disappointing to me that it was a lot of kicking for field position and relatively little scrum work and running.
Over there I watched some Ireland / Italy and it was more the game I played in college. Of course, those gents were a lot larger and faster.
October 4, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Chad Crawford (10/4/2011)
The reason I asked you for your opinion (and will listen carefully whenever the conversation comes up) is that I have heard from a few people that certifications are actually a negative point in their opinion. Someone who listed a cert on their resume would have less opportunity for an interview than someone who did not. I did a quick tally in my head and those people seem to be about 1 in 10, so I still seek certifications and have them on my resume, but I’m conscious that not everyone feels that way and want to be sensitive to changes in opinion.
I wonder how many of us there are that try to completely ignore certs and degrees in the interview process?
I say "try" because it IS difficult to ignore the fact that you're trying to hire a Lead Developer and the person you're talking with has a Phd in Mathematics and just went into the "deer in headlights" mode when asked how to do a super simple hex to decimal conversion.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 4, 2011 at 4:13 pm
skonagalla (10/4/2011)
I am very sorry that I believed was performing a useful service by reposting some excellent ideas from other bloggers, and I apologize for not attributing credit to the original posters. I have removed the offending posts from the EMC Consulting blog and I can confirm you that this will not happen again.
Well said and greatly appreciated. Thanks, Skonagalla.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 4, 2011 at 4:21 pm
Jeff Moden (10/4/2011)
I wonder how many of us there are that try to completely ignore certs and degrees in the interview process?
I don't. If the person has a relevant certification or qualification I'm going to hold them to a higher standard than I would otherwise.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 4, 2011 at 4:53 pm
I do not have to worry about my stuff being stolen. No one in his right mind would want to do that... 😀
Steve.
(Parody, no?)
October 4, 2011 at 5:18 pm
I had an interesting moment of reflection whilst helping my daughter with her homework the other day.
She had a maths problem like “102 + 44 + 266 + 78 + 13” and I saw she was summing up from the hundreds column first. Enquiries revealed that her grade 3 teacher a couple of years ago taught a “shortcut” for addition whereby you sum up the hundreds, then the tens, then the units and finally sum all those up. And with an anti-epiphany I realised that the poor girl had been taught to solve basic maths problems with recursion. I managed to kill that idea by giving her a thoroughly nasty addition involving 10’s of thousands.
But now I’m left wondering: are we facing an entire generation of kids raised on recursive methods since kindergarten for even simple things? And as a parent, how can I persuade my kids to eat their cereal in a set-based manner rather than the annoying slow spoonful-by-agonising-spoonful?
Steve.
October 4, 2011 at 6:13 pm
Fal (10/4/2011)
I had an interesting moment of reflection whilst helping my daughter with her homework the other day.She had a maths problem like “102 + 44 + 266 + 78 + 13” and I saw she was summing up from the hundreds column first. Enquiries revealed that her grade 3 teacher a couple of years ago taught a “shortcut” for addition whereby you sum up the hundreds, then the tens, then the units and finally sum all those up. And with an anti-epiphany I realised that the poor girl had been taught to solve basic maths problems with recursion. I managed to kill that idea by giving her a thoroughly nasty addition involving 10’s of thousands.
But now I’m left wondering: are we facing an entire generation of kids raised on recursive methods since kindergarten for even simple things? And as a parent, how can I persuade my kids to eat their cereal in a set-based manner rather than the annoying slow spoonful-by-agonising-spoonful?
Steve.
As for me and my household we are trying to teach our teenager to eat via the recursive method and to actually taste the food.
RBAR (or SBAS in this case) is good in certain scenarios.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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October 4, 2011 at 7:52 pm
Fal (10/4/2011)
I had an interesting moment of reflection whilst helping my daughter with her homework the other day.She had a maths problem like “102 + 44 + 266 + 78 + 13” and I saw she was summing up from the hundreds column first. Enquiries revealed that her grade 3 teacher a couple of years ago taught a “shortcut” for addition whereby you sum up the hundreds, then the tens, then the units and finally sum all those up. And with an anti-epiphany I realised that the poor girl had been taught to solve basic maths problems with recursion. I managed to kill that idea by giving her a thoroughly nasty addition involving 10’s of thousands.
But now I’m left wondering: are we facing an entire generation of kids raised on recursive methods since kindergarten for even simple things? And as a parent, how can I persuade my kids to eat their cereal in a set-based manner rather than the annoying slow spoonful-by-agonising-spoonful?
Steve.
That technique is taught in a "course" called "Mega Math".... and done correctly, it's very fast and very easy to do mentally. I actually think that 3rd grade teacher was pretty smart for teaching it. Of course, such a change in the basic 3R's mortifies most educators.
As a side bar, I'm not sure why anyone considers this method any more recursive than the ol' right-to-left-with-carries method.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 4, 2011 at 8:14 pm
GilaMonster (10/4/2011)
Jeff Moden (10/4/2011)
I wonder how many of us there are that try to completely ignore certs and degrees in the interview process?I don't. If the person has a relevant certification or qualification I'm going to hold them to a higher standard than I would otherwise.
Heh... I don't hold certs against anyone 😛 but I also understand why someone might expect more from someone with alphabet soup after their name.
I treat everyone pretty much the same way... do you know what I need you to know or not? My questions aren't difficult or "tricky" so, certified or not, they should know the answers.
As a bit of a side bar, the shortest interview I ever conducted lasted through just one question (a simple "warm up question" to make the person more comfortable as one would do during a lie detector test) and was over 30 seconds after I asked it (and the "dude" claimed more than 9 years of experience).
As another set of side bars, the best DBA I ever hired had no certs and no degrees. The second best one I ever hired (as a developer, not a DBA) not only had no certs or degrees, he also had no production experience... only a shed load of practice on the network he'd set up at home.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 5, 2011 at 2:13 am
Jeff Moden (10/4/2011)
GilaMonster (10/4/2011)
Jeff Moden (10/4/2011)
I wonder how many of us there are that try to completely ignore certs and degrees in the interview process?I don't. If the person has a relevant certification or qualification I'm going to hold them to a higher standard than I would otherwise.
Heh... I don't hold certs against anyone 😛 but I also understand why someone might expect more from someone with alphabet soup after their name.
I treat everyone pretty much the same way... do you know what I need you to know or not? My questions aren't difficult or "tricky" so, certified or not, they should know the answers.
As a bit of a side bar, the shortest interview I ever conducted lasted through just one question (a simple "warm up question" to make the person more comfortable as one would do during a lie detector test) and was over 30 seconds after I asked it (and the "dude" claimed more than 9 years of experience).
As another set of side bars, the best DBA I ever hired had no certs and no degrees. The second best one I ever hired (as a developer, not a DBA) not only had no certs or degrees, he also had no production experience... only a shed load of practice on the network he'd set up at home.
So what was that question??
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