September 12, 2011 at 8:14 am
GSquared (9/12/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (9/12/2011)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/12/2011)
I don't understand why Celko keeps posting on these forums. It is completely obvious that he doesn't want to aswer the questions, so why take the time to post?
I'm not sure either, and I think the best thing to do is ignore him most of the time, and deal with the OP only.
What's the reasoning behind nor firing his account?
I know he sometimes gives good content, but most of the time his posts are just rude spam.
I'm not sure the net benefit (if any) justify not killing his account from posting anymore (without deleting the rest of his posts).
I don't think he's actually violated the EULA/TOS for the site. Till he does, the account should stand, IMO.
How does treating the OP an incompetent moron who can't code nor understand coupling every 2 posts comply with eula?
September 12, 2011 at 8:20 am
If you think that my reply was not called for, I can delete my post.
Well, actually I can't, but I can ask Steve to do it for me.
If you also feel that I should apologize, feel free to say it out loud. I hate being wrong, so, please give me a chance to correct my attitude if you think I should.
ATM, I have no reason to believe so.
-- Gianluca Sartori
September 12, 2011 at 8:24 am
Gianluca Sartori (9/12/2011)
If you think that my reply was not called for, I can delete my post.Well, actually I can't, but I can ask Steve to do it for me.
If you also feel that I should apologize, feel free to say it out loud. I hate being wrong, so, please give me a chance to correct my attitude if you think I should.
ATM, I have no reason to believe so.
I'm on the fence here. It might not have been "100% ok" on this one, but given the long accumulated track of insults he did over the years I probably wouldn't retract that one.
September 12, 2011 at 8:32 am
My observation is that there are lot of people posting their Homework Assignments.
It is so obvious that they are not real world problems. They are not even good homework assignments.
It must be nice to have someone jump to do your homework. IMHO this is cheating.
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September 12, 2011 at 8:34 am
Welsh Corgi (9/12/2011)
My observation is that there are lot of people posting their Homework Assignments.It is so obvious that they are not real world problems. They are not even good homework assignments.
It must be nice to have someone jump to do your homework. IMHO this is cheating.
Back on topic?!?!?! :pinch:
September 12, 2011 at 8:35 am
Ninja's_RGR'us (9/12/2011)
How does treating the OP an incompetent moron who can't code nor understand coupling every 2 posts comply with eula?
Rude is a matter of taste and I do try not to censor those or remove accounts for those reasons. You have, as have I and many others, a good share of snarky, or even rude, comments posted on threads.
Removal of accounts doesn't stop anyone, including spammers. They just create another one.
September 12, 2011 at 8:39 am
Ninja's_RGR'us (9/12/2011)
GSquared (9/12/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (9/12/2011)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/12/2011)
I don't understand why Celko keeps posting on these forums. It is completely obvious that he doesn't want to aswer the questions, so why take the time to post?
I'm not sure either, and I think the best thing to do is ignore him most of the time, and deal with the OP only.
What's the reasoning behind nor firing his account?
I know he sometimes gives good content, but most of the time his posts are just rude spam.
I'm not sure the net benefit (if any) justify not killing his account from posting anymore (without deleting the rest of his posts).
I don't think he's actually violated the EULA/TOS for the site. Till he does, the account should stand, IMO.
How does treating the OP an incompetent moron who can't code nor understand coupling every 2 posts comply with eula?
Relevant portions of the ToS (http://www.sqlservercentral.com/About/Terms):
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The only point he is potentially in violation of is "offensive", and, honestly, Jeff Moden has been comparably "offensive" at times to various individuals. Ban him too? I've offended a fair number of people with my political/social views, on this very thread; guess I'm outta here. Plus, I can't be certain on this point, but the lawyers who drew up the ToS probably meant "offensive" as something that could be legally actionable, such as racial/sexual/religious slurs/jokes, or similar lawsuit-magnet material, and not Joe's trademark brand of "your table names violate ISO standards, so you're a moron" type of posting.
Yes, he does push the limits on it, and maybe Steve should have Red Gate's counsel take a gander at it. But till you have a legal opinion on it, I'd avoid arbitrarily banning his account.
On that particular thread, I have to say I think he's right that the stored procedure and cursor were written by someone who thinks procedurally and sequentially. I have to deal with a lot of that from my predecessor at my current job. I'm currently rewriting an ETL process that loads a dozen tables that all have the same columns, which uses a While loop to step through a table variable, and inside that uses IF statements to determine the current values from the table variable to build dynamic SQL insert statements to load each table. The whole thing could target one table, perhaps with multiple Views to partition the data, and one insert statement. It's moderately complex, and I'm still reverse engineering it to make sure I get all the business rules right, but it will be much simpler to maintain, debug, and refactor, once I've rebuilt it. The guy who built it used to work in COBOL and in mainframe databases. The whole process is very, very standard for that environment, and thus is horrible in SQL Server. Same as the code in the thread under current consideration.
So, yeah, there's a dog-pile-on-Joe phenomenon in that one, and he even jokes about it with his comment about fighting with each other, but I honestly think his posts prior to the dogpile were an improvement over his prior posts on this site. I think he's got a ways to go, and some arrogance still to swallow, but I think he's beginning to make progress in that regard.
We can't just knee-jerk slam him every time he posts. One take-to-task post when he crosses the line is enough, it doesn't take a dozen.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
September 12, 2011 at 8:40 am
Ninja's_RGR'us (9/12/2011)
Welsh Corgi (9/12/2011)
My observation is that there are lot of people posting their Homework Assignments.It is so obvious that they are not real world problems. They are not even good homework assignments.
It must be nice to have someone jump to do your homework. IMHO this is cheating.
Back on topic?!?!?! :pinch:
oh, I'm sorry I did not realize that I could not make a comment if it was not consistent with the previous thread.:-)
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September 12, 2011 at 8:42 am
Welsh Corgi (9/12/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (9/12/2011)
Welsh Corgi (9/12/2011)
My observation is that there are lot of people posting their Homework Assignments.It is so obvious that they are not real world problems. They are not even good homework assignments.
It must be nice to have someone jump to do your homework. IMHO this is cheating.
Back on topic?!?!?! :pinch:
oh, I'm sorry I did not realize that I could not make a comment if it was not consistent with the previous thread.:-)
Them's the rules. Anyone else can change the topic on The Thread. Just not you. :w00t:
And, yeah, with the school year back in session, I've seen a surge in homework postings.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
September 12, 2011 at 8:47 am
GSquared (9/12/2011)
Welsh Corgi (9/12/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (9/12/2011)
Welsh Corgi (9/12/2011)
My observation is that there are lot of people posting their Homework Assignments.It is so obvious that they are not real world problems. They are not even good homework assignments.
It must be nice to have someone jump to do your homework. IMHO this is cheating.
Back on topic?!?!?! :pinch:
oh, I'm sorry I did not realize that I could not make a comment if it was not consistent with the previous thread.:-)
Them's the rules. Anyone else can change the topic on The Thread. Just not you. :w00t:
And, yeah, with the school year back in session, I've seen a surge in homework postings.
My bad I did not even check the current thread before I made the post. That was kinda disruptive to the dialogue.
Am I the only person in this forum that this rule applies? 🙂
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http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/
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http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/SQLServerCentral/66909/
September 12, 2011 at 8:49 am
Tom.Thomson (9/12/2011)
ChrisM@Work (9/12/2011)
WayneS (9/11/2011)
ALZDBA (9/11/2011)
:sig:The one who's name thow shall not state felt the need to kill a forum newbe with ancient history and lousy advise.
Gianluca's new sandbox is too funny!
Yeah, it's funny. But in the thread where he pointed to it Celko had been responding to comments made, and bits of his responses were not altogether unreasonable, so on that thread the joke was probably inappropriate. I sort of feel that the joke is maybe tending towards being close to as tasteless as Celko's worst comments. The SP in question looks like something that ought to have got its author fired, and I don't think any of Celko's comments about that SP were OTT. I often disagree with him, and I usually don't like his style, but I restrict myself to arguing with him reasonably, not pushing pointles ad hominem jokes his way.
The best way out for the original question would be to get hold of a good clear natural language description of the SP's function - that would almost certainly be easier than working out what on earth that awful code is doing.
JC usually means well with his posts even if they are a little harsh and his follow up posts can often contain quite good material. This one's the exception. Some of the advice is poor. My hackles rose when he criticized the use of temp tables, which are invaluable when dealing with complex extracts of huge tables - ably contradicted by JBM.
This - "a good clear natural language description" - is far better advice than banging on about standards.
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
September 12, 2011 at 8:49 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/12/2011)
Ninja's_RGR'us (9/12/2011)
How does treating the OP an incompetent moron who can't code nor understand coupling every 2 posts comply with eula?
Rude is a matter of taste and I do try not to censor those or remove accounts for those reasons. You have, as have I and many others, a good share of snarky, or even rude, comments posted on threads.
Removal of accounts doesn't stop anyone, including spammers. They just create another one.
Yes I have been rude. I've also apologized, edit and excused myself many times.
Not something Joe's been doing AFAIK.
Also while far from perfect, I don't think I have over 50-75% of my posts who could be perceived by the receiver as offensive or rude.
September 12, 2011 at 8:54 am
Jim Murphy (9/12/2011)
In fact, I define "hardware" as the part of the computer that you can kick.
Be careful, some people may consider your a$$ as your "hardware" and treat it in the same way. 😀
Far away is close at hand in the images of elsewhere.
Anon.
September 12, 2011 at 9:01 am
GSquared (9/12/2011)
Them's the rules. Anyone else can change the topic on The Thread. Just not you. :w00t:
Why is that?
Well by golly if thems the rules than thems the rules. 😛
How about some possum pie for dinner?
Yee Hah! 🙂
For better, quicker answers on T-SQL questions, click on the following...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/
For better answers on performance questions, click on the following...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/SQLServerCentral/66909/
September 12, 2011 at 9:03 am
I re-read my reply and I see that it violates the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" rule.
Steve, can you delete the "sandbox" thread for me?
-- Gianluca Sartori
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