August 4, 2011 at 10:51 am
GilaMonster (8/4/2011)
GSquared (8/4/2011)
GilaMonster (8/3/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/3/2011)
which stopped happening 11 years ago) because US immigration control has deteriorated to the point where no-one in his right mind wants to travel to the USA anywayTell me about it. It's about the worst part of each trip - 20 questions, let's see if we can trip you up, how much can we sneer at you - fairly closely followed by the joys of leaving again.
Don't worry, we treat ourselves just about as horribly. I'm not looking forward to the travel part of my vacation later this month, what with airport "security" and all that.
Security's bad enough, but the border control people that act like all visitors are scum and criminals that they have to reluctantly let into the country are the worst.
Anywhere else in the world that I've travelled (from southern africa, far east to europe) the border officers are polite and respectful. In the US I've been shouted at, insulted and told that I should "just turn around and leave right now", and that's not a single example from one trip.
I can easily believe it. One of the key signs of a dying culture is loss of respect and manners towards others. We've got that in abundance. (We also have most of the other signs of cultural moribundity, if not all of them, so it's no surprise we have that one too.)
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 4, 2011 at 11:04 am
GSquared (8/4/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (8/4/2011)
GSquared (8/4/2011)
GilaMonster (8/3/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/3/2011)
which stopped happening 11 years ago) because US immigration control has deteriorated to the point where no-one in his right mind wants to travel to the USA anywayTell me about it. It's about the worst part of each trip - 20 questions, let's see if we can trip you up, how much can we sneer at you - fairly closely followed by the joys of leaving again.
Don't worry, we treat ourselves just about as horribly. I'm not looking forward to the travel part of my vacation later this month, what with airport "security" and all that.
I take the train from Boston to Richmond rather than fly just because of that in part.
I looked into taking the train instead of flying, because of that. Would even save me about $20 on the round-trip costs. The problem is, I'd be at my destination for approximately 1 1/2 hours before I'd had to get on the return train and come back, since I've only got a week off this time. I decided I'm just not that into spending the whole vacation on a train. :hehe:
Yeah, I've looked into some other trips by train and they just don't make sense. Fortunately, the trip to Richmond from here takes around the same as driving with no traffic, which makes it ideal for holiday travel.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
August 4, 2011 at 12:24 pm
On our return from Canada couple years ago, I was given an absolutely abysmal pat-down, and almost felt like telling the guy how terrible he was, but decided that was probably not a good idea, and moved on.
On a lighter note, finally found a great use for those stupid grocery store cards, other than requiring you to have one to keep getting the normal price instead of the *incredibly* inflated one - just got a voicemail telling me that there was a recall on ground turkey from the store due to suspected salmonella, and that I had purchased some within the last 6 months. Can't believe something actually worked effectively!
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August 4, 2011 at 12:25 pm
GSquared (8/4/2011)
...One of the key signs of a dying culture is loss of respect and manners towards others. We've got that in abundance. (We also have most of the other signs of cultural moribundity, if not all of them, so it's no surprise we have that one too.)
Indeed. In most cases we have lost the ability to treat others politely in most cases, respect others' rights and space, and especially lost the ability to argue and debate with each other in a reasonable manner.
I blame parents of kids playing youth sports and Oracle. :w00t::-P (just a joke here, just to be clear).
August 4, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (8/4/2011)
GSquared (8/4/2011)
...One of the key signs of a dying culture is loss of respect and manners towards others. We've got that in abundance. (We also have most of the other signs of cultural moribundity, if not all of them, so it's no surprise we have that one too.)Indeed. In most cases we have lost the ability to treat others politely in most cases, respect others' rights and space, and especially lost the ability to argue and debate with each other in a reasonable manner.
I blame parents of kids playing youth sports and Oracle. :w00t::-P (just a joke here, just to be clear).
That's OK, Steve. We know you didn't mean the parents of kids playing youth sports are to blame. : -)
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
August 4, 2011 at 12:32 pm
jcrawf02 (8/4/2011)
On our return from Canada couple years ago, I was given an absolutely abysmal pat-down, and almost felt like telling the guy how terrible he was, but decided that was probably not a good idea, and moved on.On a lighter note, finally found a great use for those stupid grocery store cards, other than requiring you to have one to keep getting the normal price instead of the *incredibly* inflated one - just got a voicemail telling me that there was a recall on ground turkey from the store due to suspected salmonella, and that I had purchased some within the last 6 months. Can't believe something actually worked effectively!
My temptation is to loudly say, "Wow! You're really GOOD at that!" if I get a pat-down. Loud enough to be heard for quite a distance. I'll probably be able to resist that, but it is tempting.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 4, 2011 at 1:13 pm
"At the airport if you refuse to be patted down, they arrest you. And what’s the first thing they do when they arrest you? They pat you down." –Jay Leno
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. - Stephen Hawking
August 4, 2011 at 1:18 pm
GSquared (8/4/2011)
GilaMonster (8/3/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/3/2011)
which stopped happening 11 years ago) because US immigration control has deteriorated to the point where no-one in his right mind wants to travel to the USA anywayTell me about it. It's about the worst part of each trip - 20 questions, let's see if we can trip you up, how much can we sneer at you - fairly closely followed by the joys of leaving again.
Don't worry, we treat ourselves just about as horribly. I'm not looking forward to the travel part of my vacation later this month, what with airport "security" and all that.
Funny, I don't travel much, but I've never really had a bad experience with security. Have always just been sent right through. I must look harmless.:-D
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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August 4, 2011 at 1:19 pm
GSquared (8/4/2011)
jcrawf02 (8/4/2011)
On our return from Canada couple years ago, I was given an absolutely abysmal pat-down, and almost felt like telling the guy how terrible he was, but decided that was probably not a good idea, and moved on.On a lighter note, finally found a great use for those stupid grocery store cards, other than requiring you to have one to keep getting the normal price instead of the *incredibly* inflated one - just got a voicemail telling me that there was a recall on ground turkey from the store due to suspected salmonella, and that I had purchased some within the last 6 months. Can't believe something actually worked effectively!
My temptation is to loudly say, "Wow! You're really GOOD at that!" if I get a pat-down. Loud enough to be heard for quite a distance. I'll probably be able to resist that, but it is tempting.
Or just make noises indicating that you're really enjoying it.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
August 4, 2011 at 1:22 pm
Jack Corbett (8/4/2011)
GSquared (8/4/2011)
GilaMonster (8/3/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/3/2011)
which stopped happening 11 years ago) because US immigration control has deteriorated to the point where no-one in his right mind wants to travel to the USA anywayTell me about it. It's about the worst part of each trip - 20 questions, let's see if we can trip you up, how much can we sneer at you - fairly closely followed by the joys of leaving again.
Don't worry, we treat ourselves just about as horribly. I'm not looking forward to the travel part of my vacation later this month, what with airport "security" and all that.
Funny, I don't travel much, but I've never really had a bad experience with security. Have always just been sent right through. I must look harmless.:-D
Nah, they routinely pull the harmless ones for screening so they can pretend they aren't profiling. A friend of mine looks like Mr. Average, Everyday Guy and they pull him aside every time. Heck, when I went to Japan with him and we came back, I had most of our luggage, suitcases, cardboard boxes, etc... They asked me 3 questions. He came next, they didn't know we were travelling together, he had a suitcase and a carry-on and they pulled him aside for the more detailed questioning. Of course, this was 1999 so all they did was question, but still!
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
August 4, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Jack Corbett (8/4/2011)
GSquared (8/4/2011)
GilaMonster (8/3/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/3/2011)
which stopped happening 11 years ago) because US immigration control has deteriorated to the point where no-one in his right mind wants to travel to the USA anywayTell me about it. It's about the worst part of each trip - 20 questions, let's see if we can trip you up, how much can we sneer at you - fairly closely followed by the joys of leaving again.
Don't worry, we treat ourselves just about as horribly. I'm not looking forward to the travel part of my vacation later this month, what with airport "security" and all that.
Funny, I don't travel much, but I've never really had a bad experience with security. Have always just been sent right through. I must look harmless.:-D
I've never yet had a bad experience with it either. But past performance doesn't necessarily predict future outcomes, or whatever it is that financial firms are required to say in their advertising.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
August 4, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Stefan Krzywicki (8/4/2011)
GSquared (8/4/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (8/4/2011)
GSquared (8/4/2011)
GilaMonster (8/3/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/3/2011)
which stopped happening 11 years ago) because US immigration control has deteriorated to the point where no-one in his right mind wants to travel to the USA anywayTell me about it. It's about the worst part of each trip - 20 questions, let's see if we can trip you up, how much can we sneer at you - fairly closely followed by the joys of leaving again.
Don't worry, we treat ourselves just about as horribly. I'm not looking forward to the travel part of my vacation later this month, what with airport "security" and all that.
I take the train from Boston to Richmond rather than fly just because of that in part.
I looked into taking the train instead of flying, because of that. Would even save me about $20 on the round-trip costs. The problem is, I'd be at my destination for approximately 1 1/2 hours before I'd had to get on the return train and come back, since I've only got a week off this time. I decided I'm just not that into spending the whole vacation on a train. :hehe:
Yeah, I've looked into some other trips by train and they just don't make sense. Fortunately, the trip to Richmond from here takes around the same as driving with no traffic, which makes it ideal for holiday travel.
Stefan, I assume you're talking Richmond VA? Out of curiosity, how long is the train ride, and how much is it costing? (I have a son 2 hrs from Boston in Groton, Ct. Might be a nice way to visit.)
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
August 4, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Jack Corbett (8/4/2011)
GSquared (8/4/2011)
GilaMonster (8/3/2011)
Tom.Thomson (8/3/2011)
which stopped happening 11 years ago) because US immigration control has deteriorated to the point where no-one in his right mind wants to travel to the USA anywayTell me about it. It's about the worst part of each trip - 20 questions, let's see if we can trip you up, how much can we sneer at you - fairly closely followed by the joys of leaving again.
Don't worry, we treat ourselves just about as horribly. I'm not looking forward to the travel part of my vacation later this month, what with airport "security" and all that.
Funny, I don't travel much, but I've never really had a bad experience with security. Have always just been sent right through. I must look harmless.:-D
Hit and miss with moi. First year after 9/11 was bad, but it's gotten better. Borders usually get me a few funny looks and a short tolerance since I profile nicely. I usually stay business like and friendly, but not overly so.
At Heathrow last time I was coming to the US, and forgot to put my leatherman into my checked bag. The security guy grabbed my laptop bag, so it was in my pocket. I handed it to the guard, thinking that it would be confiscated. I walk through the xray, start gathering my things and the guard walks up and says he has to "ask someone" about this. It's small, but a 2" blade, multiple tools. Comes back in a minute, hands it to me and I walk to the airplane.
Crazy.
August 4, 2011 at 1:42 pm
GSquared (8/4/2011)
I've never yet had a bad experience with it either. But past performance doesn't necessarily predict future outcomes, or whatever it is that financial firms are required to say in their advertising.
The worst I've ever had was SeaTac security emptying my laptop bag completely (they initially threatened to just turn it upside down), turning on every single piece of electronics I had (a lot), spreading all my books, cables and other contents across a 2mx5m table (including turning out my jacket pockets and the small toiletry bag I carry) and then walking off (without a word) and leaving me to repack the entire thing.
Considering it had taken me over an hour to pack it at the hotel in order to get everything to fit, I was not very happy.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
August 4, 2011 at 1:47 pm
GilaMonster (8/4/2011)
Security's bad enough, but the border control people that act like all visitors are scum and criminals that they have to reluctantly let into the country are the worst.Anywhere else in the world that I've travelled (from southern africa, far east to europe) the border officers are polite and respectful. In the US I've been shouted at, insulted and told that I should "just turn around and leave right now", and that's not a single example from one trip.
Airport security is pretty bad almost anywhere (almost everywhere, not everywhere: India was nowhere near as bad as the UK last time I was there) now - mostly pure theatre, not real security, the purpose being not to reduce risk (real intelligence-based security does that but most of the current theatrical farce doesn't) but to fool the public into thinking that the government is "doing something useful about security" (but I'm sure it doesn't fool many people at all).
But I agree with Gail, it's nowhere near as bad as US border control; those people almost all act as if everyone they encounter is scum, they are usually very rude and offensive, they seem to be doing their best to intimidate and upset every person crossing the border. This happens nowhere else I've ever been in the world (seventeen European countries, Egypt, India, Israel, Lebanon, Morocco) - everyone but the USA has polite border officials.
It wasn't anything like as bad quarter of a century ago: yes, US border control had enormous slow-moving queues (I was astounded when I first went there - the only place I'd seen bureaucracy and queues like it was in Yugoslavia); but the personel were friendly and polite. Things began to go downhill when the Visa Waiver program was introduced - maybe a coincidence, or caused by this change, and have continued to go downhill ever since (at least until about 48 months ago, I haven't been back since then). Other American officials (police and military for example) are unfailingly courteous so why are border control people like this? Maybe the administration made a policy decision to recruit only yobs as border control staff in a misguided attempt to get the labor on the cheap?
Tom
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