May 16, 2011 at 12:09 pm
GSquared (5/16/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (5/16/2011)
GSquared (5/16/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (5/16/2011)
Here's an interesting article on Oracle satisfaction[/url]SQL Server's not even mentioned, I guess we have a way to go in being considered suitable for very large databases. A problem of perception, not scalability.
Actually, it doesn't go into any of Oracle's competitors in any sphere. It's just about people being unhappy with Oracle, not about what they're switching to in order to solve that. So, no mention of SQL Server isn't really a "leave out".
I'd noticed they mentioned Peoplesoft and a few others, but you're right. I was mostly interested in the survey results confirming what I tend to hear on various jobs that have some association with Oracle.
Peoplesoft and JD Edwards are Oracle products, not Oracle competitors. The survey was about Oracle products, not just about their database engine, so it would naturally include both of those.
Ah, I wasn't sure if that was the case or if they had their own custom backends.
Of course, you do know what the most powerful feature of Oracle's database engine is, right? INSERT INTO LarryEllisonsBankAccounts SELECT * FROM YourBankAccounts WHERE 1=1;
Nice : -)
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
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It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
May 16, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Jack Corbett (5/16/2011)
Saw Steve's mention of Denver for next year's US SQLRally, I say US because there is SQLRally Nordic in Sweden in November and I believe Australia is in the midst of trying to put one together as well.
"If only, if only..."
I have a writer friend in Sweden I'd love to visit.
May 16, 2011 at 12:23 pm
Jack Corbett (5/16/2011)
Gus,It was great to see you at SQLRally and I'm glad you found it valuable and valuable enough to consider attending the Summit. That was one of the goals of SQLRally, to get people who had never attended the Summit to see the value in the Summit.
Unfortunately, at every event you get sessions that aren't good, or that offer some less than optimal solutions. Something we, especially the threadizens, have to remember is that not everyone is at the same level, and for many SQL Server installations things we don't consider the best solutions are good enough solutions. I shudder to think of the code I was writing 5-10 years ago in my first SQL Server job, but it was "good enough" code for that job and that load. The best thing to do in those situations is to meet the presenter later and discuss the areas you disagree with and try to educate them. Most of the presenters I've encountered at events are also the most teachable people in the community. They want to do better.
Under most circumstances, I agree. Every presenter had issues, mostly minor. Jen had "SELECT *" in a few queries and mentioned "don't do this". Alex didn't know how SQL Server determines deadlock victims and admitted it. I don't have a problem with that.
Where I had a problem was in this session, where the presenter (I think his name was Tim) specifically said, "some people don't like dynamic SQL, but there are ways to prevent injection" and then went ahead and presented a "good SQL example" that was tailor-made to allow injection. He obviously knew, from what he said, that what he had written needed to be done differently. Had he even said, "this is a bad example of dynamic SQL, don't do this in production code, this is just to illustrate..." or some caveat like that, I wouldn't have had a problem with it.
But, because of the way he presented it, it could specifically come across to a less experienced DBA as "here's a good way to write dynamic SQL, and I mentioned preventing injection, so this must take that into account". A newbie DBA, which is what most of the presentation was obviously aimed at, wouldn't know to challenge or question it, since he presented it as a solution, and mentioned preventing injection in the same sentence.
He had other, minor, errors in the presentation code. None of them mattered in the larger view of the presentation. That one thing, to me, was an invitation to disaster for newbie DBAs. And he seemed to know better. So it's the one thing that got a negative comment from me on the session review survey.
On the "get with him after to teach", I figure he'll read the comment on the survey, go "good point", and that'll handle it for his next presentation. No further attention needed from me at this time. And, that way, I got to spend some time chatting with friends after the session, instead of haranguing the poor presenter with "you idiot! I can't believe you...!" (which is how it might come across in person, if he's half as stressed by travel, et al, as most presenters probably are). This way, it's just a mild comment on the survey, and he can handle or not as he chooses.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
May 16, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Peoplesoft and JD Edwards are Oracle products, not Oracle competitors. The survey was about Oracle products, not just about their database engine, so it would naturally include both of those.
Ah, I wasn't sure if that was the case or if they had their own custom backends.
They can run on any of the major RDBMS engines for the back end, but they are owned by Oracle (and, I believe, optimized for its RDBMS).
I got to help administer a JD Edwards set up that used SQL Server for the database, last year. Just as bad as Microsoft's Great Plains databases (or whatever they're calling that product this week). Tables with names like "R100A2". Not quite the worst documentation I've ever run into, but far from the best.
(The worst piece of documentation I've run into in any IT field was instructions for setting up a SCSI hard drive one time. The instructions started out with "Please to be inserting jumper on 5, 6 pins.", and went downhill from there. Please to be noting that the pins on the physical drive were not numbered, and there was no illustration of any sort, so I had to please to be figuring out which pins were which.)
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
May 16, 2011 at 12:38 pm
GSquared (5/16/2011)
Peoplesoft and JD Edwards are Oracle products, not Oracle competitors. The survey was about Oracle products, not just about their database engine, so it would naturally include both of those.
Ah, I wasn't sure if that was the case or if they had their own custom backends.
They can run on any of the major RDBMS engines for the back end, but they are owned by Oracle (and, I believe, optimized for its RDBMS).
I got to help administer a JD Edwards set up that used SQL Server for the database, last year. Just as bad as Microsoft's Great Plains databases (or whatever they're calling that product this week). Tables with names like "R100A2". Not quite the worst documentation I've ever run into, but far from the best.
(The worst piece of documentation I've run into in any IT field was instructions for setting up a SCSI hard drive one time. The instructions started out with "Please to be inserting jumper on 5, 6 pins.", and went downhill from there. Please to be noting that the pins on the physical drive were not numbered, and there was no illustration of any sort, so I had to please to be figuring out which pins were which.)
Ah, SCSI. There's a little piece of technology that fell by the wayside pretty quickly. At one point it was the hot thing, now it is impossible to find adapters so you can even use the old devices. Zip/Jazz drives, old scanners, external hard drives all now useless because you can't connect them to a new computer.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
May 16, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Stefan Krzywicki (5/16/2011)
Here's an interesting article on Oracle satisfaction[/url]SQL Server's not even mentioned, I guess we have a way to go in being considered suitable for very large databases. A problem of perception, not scalability.
I think one of the major issues for not being considered is the fact that SQL Server requires a Microsoft OS whereas Oracle and DB2 offer more flexibility.
Especially folks used to mainframe systems still consider MS just as an office OS but not capable to be used in a "true production environment". (at least that's what I've heard numerous times).
So far I've been unable to reply with a solid argument why to use SQL Server if other products are more flexible in terms of the OS required. As soon as there's a decision not to use an MS OS (XP, Win7, WinServer...), SQL Server is out of the race.
May 16, 2011 at 12:54 pm
LutzM (5/16/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (5/16/2011)
Here's an interesting article on Oracle satisfaction[/url]SQL Server's not even mentioned, I guess we have a way to go in being considered suitable for very large databases. A problem of perception, not scalability.
I think one of the major issues for not being considered is the fact that SQL Server requires a Microsoft OS whereas Oracle and DB2 offer more flexibility.
Especially folks used to mainframe systems still consider MS just as an office OS but not capable to be used in a "true production environment". (at least that's what I've heard numerous times).
So far I've been unable to reply with a solid argument why to use SQL Server if other products are more flexible in terms of the OS required. As soon as there's a decision not to use an MS OS (XP, Win7, WinServer...), SQL Server is out of the race.
I'd be far more likely to pick an OS based on the database I want, not the other way around. That seems a weird way to approach it.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
May 16, 2011 at 12:58 pm
Jack Corbett (5/16/2011)
Saw Steve's mention of Denver for next year's US SQLRally, I say US because there is SQLRally Nordic in Sweden in November and I believe Australia is in the midst of trying to put one together as well. There are a couple of cities in the running for next year's US SQLRally and there will be a community vote sometime in June. I know that I'd visit any of the cities being considered (I don't know if I can name them because they aren't finalists yet) and likely bring at least my wife, if not the whole family.
You mean those cities mentioned here[/url]? Yep, I think I'd go to any of those cities also.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
May 16, 2011 at 1:03 pm
WayneS (5/16/2011)
Jack Corbett (5/16/2011)
Saw Steve's mention of Denver for next year's US SQLRally, I say US because there is SQLRally Nordic in Sweden in November and I believe Australia is in the midst of trying to put one together as well. There are a couple of cities in the running for next year's US SQLRally and there will be a community vote sometime in June. I know that I'd visit any of the cities being considered (I don't know if I can name them because they aren't finalists yet) and likely bring at least my wife, if not the whole family.You mean those cities mentioned here[/url]? Yep, I think I'd go to any of those cities also.
Well, I guess I could have named them then. I wasn't sure, so better safe than sorry.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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May 16, 2011 at 1:13 pm
I know voting isn't over yet, but does anyone know if PASS has a date by which speakers will know if their submitted sessions have been selected for the Summit?
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
May 16, 2011 at 1:20 pm
WayneS (5/16/2011)
I know voting isn't over yet, but does anyone know if PASS has a date by which speakers will know if their submitted sessions have been selected for the Summit?
I would venture a guess at sometime in June. Abstract reviews are due by June 3.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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May 16, 2011 at 1:21 pm
Stefan Krzywicki (5/16/2011)
LutzM (5/16/2011)
...I think one of the major issues for not being considered is the fact that SQL Server requires a Microsoft OS whereas Oracle and DB2 offer more flexibility.
Especially folks used to mainframe systems still consider MS just as an office OS but not capable to be used in a "true production environment". (at least that's what I've heard numerous times).
So far I've been unable to reply with a solid argument why to use SQL Server if other products are more flexible in terms of the OS required. As soon as there's a decision not to use an MS OS (XP, Win7, WinServer...), SQL Server is out of the race.
I'd be far more likely to pick an OS based on the database I want, not the other way around. That seems a weird way to approach it.
If you're struggling with a corporate policy that requires to use a *IX based OS in production, you'd need very strong arguments why you can't use DB2 or Oracle at all and why you'd have to have the only MS based OS in production among several dozend *IX based servers. I'd love to have strong arguments for MS. But as per today, I don't (especially if the vulnerability issue as well as the additional maintenance skill is thrown in the ring). :crying:
May 16, 2011 at 1:25 pm
I haven't heard when selections will be announced. I don't think the "preferences tool" is an official vote, it is just another tool to aid the program committee in selecting sessions. SQLRally had a vote, while this is more of a survey being used to guide the selection team. At least that's what I think it is planned for. I could be wrong since I'm not on the selection team this year (my choice).
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
May 16, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Jack Corbett (5/16/2011)
I haven't heard when selections will be announced. I don't think the "preferences tool" is an official vote, it is just another tool to aid the program committee in selecting sessions. SQLRally had a vote, while this is more of a survey being used to guide the selection team. At least that's what I think it is planned for. I could be wrong since I'm not on the selection team this year (my choice).
My understanding is that the preference vote is to get an idea of the types of sessions that people would like to see, not necessarily (key word) act as a literal vote. I hate the thought of voting on sessions because then we'd be spammed (with me leading the charge) by speakers trying to get your attention. I needed a bath after the blatant begging and horrific spam I did to try to get votes for SQL Rally pre-con. I'd hate to have to do that all the time.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
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May 16, 2011 at 1:52 pm
Stefan Krzywicki (5/16/2011)
GSquared (5/16/2011)
Peoplesoft and JD Edwards are Oracle products, not Oracle competitors. The survey was about Oracle products, not just about their database engine, so it would naturally include both of those.
Ah, I wasn't sure if that was the case or if they had their own custom backends.
They can run on any of the major RDBMS engines for the back end, but they are owned by Oracle (and, I believe, optimized for its RDBMS).
I got to help administer a JD Edwards set up that used SQL Server for the database, last year. Just as bad as Microsoft's Great Plains databases (or whatever they're calling that product this week). Tables with names like "R100A2". Not quite the worst documentation I've ever run into, but far from the best.
(The worst piece of documentation I've run into in any IT field was instructions for setting up a SCSI hard drive one time. The instructions started out with "Please to be inserting jumper on 5, 6 pins.", and went downhill from there. Please to be noting that the pins on the physical drive were not numbered, and there was no illustration of any sort, so I had to please to be figuring out which pins were which.)
Ah, SCSI. There's a little piece of technology that fell by the wayside pretty quickly. At one point it was the hot thing, now it is impossible to find adapters so you can even use the old devices. Zip/Jazz drives, old scanners, external hard drives all now useless because you can't connect them to a new computer.
Bernouli box, anyone?
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