April 25, 2011 at 11:18 am
Brandie Tarvin (4/25/2011)
All,I'm speaking about designing a data recovery plan at SQL Saturday 74 this weekend and am looking for some flavor to add to the presentation.
Does anyone have any RL examples of when a Boss or Customer asked for something unreasonable in the recovery plan? Bad SLA expectations, etc. Anything besides "It's all important! We can't lose one single thing!"
We came up with counts and totals being part of restoration for a quick check and balance to see if the restoration had some validity.
This was at the file level.
They got off on some tangent where what if Item A became Item B, and refused to accept our explaination that this wasn't really possible.
They wanted us to manually print out all the items and descriptions before we took the backup, and then do the same after, and manually compare them.
With a couple hundred thousand Item Masters, this seemed a bit unreasonable.
Greg E
April 25, 2011 at 12:44 pm
GilaMonster (4/25/2011)
He has an obsession with max worker thread setting at the moment. $Deity knows why, it's one of those settings that shouldn't be touched without a really good reason.
Now that I've seen that and his take on index maintenace and his view that nothing should be automated that could be done manually I wouldn't dream of doing anything with his CV but binning it oif it ever crossed my desk (extremely unlikely). I wonder how many prospective employers he's ensured will never hire him?
Tom
April 25, 2011 at 1:13 pm
GilaMonster (4/25/2011)
Yesterday I was getting notifications 10 hours late.
That's probably because since you are so far away; it takes longer for the electrons to get there. They only travel at 186k miles/s - how far away are you again?
Years ago, I actually heard a network tech tell a user that the reason the printer took a few seconds for the print job to start was because the wiring went all the way upstairs to the closet and all the way back down to the port that the printer was plugged in to. Course, it was Cat 5 and not fiber. How fast does cat 5 (not e) travel, 1,126 ft/s (768MPH) when it is 68 degrees F outside? I almost spoke up but instead embraced the ponderment(tm) in my mind of the above figures while choosing to remain in sweet silence. I don't remember if that tech had any letters after their name or not.
Jim
Jim Murphy
http://www.sqlwatchmen.com
@SQLMurph
April 25, 2011 at 1:23 pm
[Jim].[dba].[Murphy] (4/25/2011)
GilaMonster (4/25/2011)
Yesterday I was getting notifications 10 hours late.That's probably because since you are so far away; it takes longer for the electrons to get there. They only travel at 186k miles/s - how far away are you again?
Years ago, I actually heard a network tech tell a user that the reason the printer took a few seconds for the print job to start was because the wiring went all the way upstairs to the closet and all the way back down to the port that the printer was plugged in to. Course, it was Cat 5 and not fiber. How fast does cat 5 (not e) travel, 1,126 ft/s (768MPH) when it is 68 degrees F outside? I almost spoke up but instead embraced the ponderment(tm) in my mind of the above figures while choosing to remain in sweet silence. I don't remember if that tech had any letters after their name or not.
Jim
I heard a similar one once. Guy 'splainin' it to me didn't realize that shielded wires operate at about 66% of c, and tried to tell me that network latency was caused by excessive cable length, as opposed to using junk switches and routers. "Everything has to go all the way to the server room, and the cables aren't straight, they go into the walls and ..." and on it went. Was pretty funny, really.
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April 25, 2011 at 2:03 pm
[Jim].[dba].[Murphy] (4/25/2011)
GilaMonster (4/25/2011)
Yesterday I was getting notifications 10 hours late.That's probably because since you are so far away; it takes longer for the electrons to get there. They only travel at 186k miles/s - how far away are you again?
Years ago, I actually heard a network tech tell a user that the reason the printer took a few seconds for the print job to start was because the wiring went all the way upstairs to the closet and all the way back down to the port that the printer was plugged in to. Course, it was Cat 5 and not fiber. How fast does cat 5 (not e) travel, 1,126 ft/s (768MPH) when it is 68 degrees F outside? I almost spoke up but instead embraced the ponderment(tm) in my mind of the above figures while choosing to remain in sweet silence. I don't remember if that tech had any letters after their name or not.
Jim
768 MPH? I think your confused; we used to work on .7c, or about 127400 Miles per second for propagation delay in copper; in practice the range is from about 0.59c to about 0.77c (107000Mps to 140000Mps) although some people advocate assuming about 0.25c (46000Mps) to be sure your assumptions are very safe. Where in the 0.6c to 0.75c range you end up depends on the cable type and the frequency range used for signalling.
I can imagine the group velocities of electrons and holes being a lot lower than the signal propagation, but I'd be surprised at 768 MPH, and anyway it's irrelevant to cat 5 or cat 5e propagation.
Tom
April 25, 2011 at 2:14 pm
*sits on his porch, sippin' another bit of moonshine, listenin' to Tom and the others discuss wirin' speeds*
Yep, that them there sounds fast. Duke boys could still out run it tho'. Yup.
*takes a few more sips and goes back to rocking*
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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April 25, 2011 at 2:16 pm
[Jim].[dba].[Murphy] (4/25/2011)
Course, it was Cat 5 and not fiber. How fast does cat 5 (not e) travel, 1,126 ft/s (768MPH) when it is 68 degrees F outside?
2/3 c, if I recall university level physics. That's still fast enough to go around the world more than 4 times in a second. Quite fast enough I think, for human perception.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
April 25, 2011 at 2:27 pm
GilaMonster (4/25/2011)
[Jim].[dba].[Murphy] (4/25/2011)
Course, it was Cat 5 and not fiber. How fast does cat 5 (not e) travel, 1,126 ft/s (768MPH) when it is 68 degrees F outside?2/3 c, if I recall university level physics. That's still fast enough to go around the world more than 4 times in a second. Quite fast enough I think, for human perception.
If I remember right, the problem with the 'old copper' wasn't necessary the speed per-se, it was the volume of data that caused problems. I remember DSL company explaining it to me one time. I'll admit I could have been gettin' blown full of smoke and sunshine, but it sounded plausible.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
April 25, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Tom.Thomson (4/25/2011)
768 MPH? I think your confused; we used to work on .7c...
Ha! Tom, you take me way to seriously. I thought the hyperbole was humorous; I'm still giggling about it.
Just as 186k mi/s is the approx speed of light, 768 MPH is the approx speed of ....
Gail, I think your calculation is slightly off. Perhaps you are correct as regards transatlantic cabling, but what if it beams that data into space!?! That just SOUNDS like it'll take a long time. (get it?)
I'm starting to wonder how we got those notifications in the first place.
Jim
Jim Murphy
http://www.sqlwatchmen.com
@SQLMurph
April 25, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Any word on when the Email delay will be fixed? Is the delay related to the EC2 outage?
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
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SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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April 25, 2011 at 2:51 pm
I've got proof anyway that copper is way slower than what some are claiming here. How many times have you or a coworker clicked Send and then shouted: "I just sent you an email"?
According to physics, this would be stupid - unless copper was much slower and voice traversing the air was a quicker way of delivering information.
That's it, I want steve to call me when there is a new post; that'd be way faster. Oh wait, his voice would be traveling at 186k mi/s. Course sound traveling that fast is another 'impossible' feat according to currently known physics.
Ok Craig - this oughtta stir the pot for a few days. 🙂
Jim
Jim Murphy
http://www.sqlwatchmen.com
@SQLMurph
April 25, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Ayup, Jim. I'm not sure why all these younguns are worried about how fast da stream goes. *rocks a little more, scares the crap out of the cat*. You put yer log in the stream, when it gets to the mill, its there. If it takes two days, it takes two days. That's why you carved your initials in it.
You kids these days and yer copper streams. Still don't know how y'all got that there ta float.
*sips some more moonshine*.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
April 25, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Where'd that Uncle Jesse thing come from? I'll have to read back and figure it out. I missed a bunch of posts because of the notification delay.
Ya, one thing is for sure: 90% of the time, I'm 1/2 joking.
Hey - I think the email issue is fixed. I'm getting s burst of notifications suddenly.
Jim
Jim Murphy
http://www.sqlwatchmen.com
@SQLMurph
April 25, 2011 at 3:22 pm
[Jim].[dba].[Murphy] (4/25/2011)
Where'd that Uncle Jesse thing come from? I'll have to read back and figure it out. I missed a bunch of posts because of the notification delay.Ya, one thing is for sure: 90% of the time, I'm 1/2 joking.
Hey - I think the email issue is fixed. I'm getting s burst of notifications suddenly.
Jim
Nothing you missed. I'm feeling ill and stuck at work so my mind gets a little ADD when I'm like this. It's making me laugh so I'm sharing. 🙂
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
For better assistance in answering your questions[/url] | Forum Netiquette
For index/tuning help, follow these directions.[/url] |Tally Tables[/url]
Twitter: @AnyWayDBA
April 25, 2011 at 3:24 pm
SQLRNNR (4/25/2011)
Any word on when the Email delay will be fixed?
According to a recent tweet, 'before tomorrow'. They have 37 minutes and counting before tomorrow. Better get working. 😀
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
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