March 9, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Lynn Pettis (3/9/2009)We know that they aren't willing to pay. That is why they are contacting us via SSC. Hey, it's free help, let's try them. I guess they don't stop to think that maybe the help we provide on the forums is voluntary, without expectation of renumeration.
Sometimes that's it. But those people generally figure it out soon enough and change accordingly.
Sadly, the majority of these cases are probably the small minority of people who know this and just don't care. Their MO is to get ahead in life by taking advantage of everyone accessible to them. They are know as "users", not to be confused with computer users or application users, they are people users.
Happily they are pretty easy to spot online because they rarely bother to cover-up in forums like these. It's just easier to move on to another site or create a new identity than it is to even pretend that they care about anybody else. This is also one of the reasons that I really like Jeff's Posting Etiquette guidelines. In a small way, it force people to invest something in the process before they get something back and these people hate that. They will usually move on to another site before they will give in and do something for someone else.
However, the most important thing to remember is that they ARE a small minority of the folks that we see and help.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
March 9, 2009 at 6:54 pm
RBarryYoung (3/9/2009)
However, the most important thing to remember is that they ARE a small minority of the folks that we see and help.
And, finally, the thread devours itself from head to tail... that's what started this whole thread. I really gotta say, I mostly disagree... it's no longer small and it's no longer a minority.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 9, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Sorry, Jeff. I just don't see it. As far as I can tell it's the same as it ever was. The technology may change, but people are still the same.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
March 9, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Heh... don't be sorry that you don't see it... be glad.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 9, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Jeff Moden (3/9/2009)
RBarryYoung (3/9/2009)
However, the most important thing to remember is that they ARE a small minority of the folks that we see and help.And, finally, the thread devours itself from head to tail... that's what started this whole thread. I really gotta say, I mostly disagree... it's no longer small and it's no longer a minority.
If you will permit me a moment of pessimism, I have to agree with Jeff here. I don't know that it is intentional that they are doing this or that it is even something that they are conscious of but wonder if it isn't just a perception that they "deserve" the help. Wait, that sounds like most of the children in this country. Do you think there is a correlation? :w00t:
David
@SQLTentmaker“He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose” - Jim Elliot
March 9, 2009 at 10:15 pm
DavidB (3/9/2009)
If you will permit me a moment of pessimism, I have to agree with Jeff here. I don't know that it is intentional that they are doing this or that it is even something that they are conscious of but wonder if it isn't just a perception that they "deserve" the help. Wait, that sounds like most of the children in this country. Do you think there is a correlation? :w00t:
No, I think that after a few thousand replies we start to become over-sensitized to certain things. It's natural to remember the occasional bad incident and to forget the thousands of normal, unexceptional and basically positive exchanges. It's also human nature to become frustrated with our inability to condition the posters into making better initial post. After a couple of years its easy to ascribe evil intent to this and forget that we can never condition them because they are always new and thus always on their first posts.
I've been posting online in forums, bulletin boards and newsgroups for 30 years now and I've seen this kind of burnout in the top posters time and again. The truth is that the online situation here at SSC is actually markedly better than the vast majority of those other forums, but the problem remains the same: you cannot change anyone until after the first time that you have interacted with them.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
March 9, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Heh... I didn't say anything about evil intent... I just meant to say the original post is correct... the questions are definitely getting worse and more ignorant.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 9, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Good. Then you aren't there yet. 😀
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
March 10, 2009 at 4:33 am
Jeff Moden (3/9/2009)
Heh... I didn't say anything about evil intent... I just meant to say the original post is correct... the questions are definitely getting worse and more ignorant.
I am with you on that point. As I was with the original poster, lo these many months ago.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
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March 10, 2009 at 4:40 am
RBarryYoung (3/9/2009)
Good. Then you aren't there yet. 😀
I know that it doesn't bother me. Just something that I have noted. 🙂
David
@SQLTentmaker“He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose” - Jim Elliot
March 10, 2009 at 6:13 am
Ninja's_RGR'us (3/9/2009)
The only that I ever had problems with group by is when the group bys and the select didn't match perfectly, IE case when in the select, then put those columns in the group by. Other than that I never had distinct show different results than group by.
What do you do in that case, Ninja? I usually copy/paste the CASE into the group by also, because I'm lazy, but I have no idea if I'm helping or hurting by doing that.
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"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
March 10, 2009 at 6:17 am
You mean we don't get PAID? I'm so out of here.....;)
-- You can't be late until you show up.
March 10, 2009 at 6:21 am
jcrawf02 (3/10/2009)
Ninja's_RGR'us (3/9/2009)
The only that I ever had problems with group by is when the group bys and the select didn't match perfectly, IE case when in the select, then put those columns in the group by. Other than that I never had distinct show different results than group by.
What do you do in that case, Ninja? I usually copy/paste the CASE into the group by also, because I'm lazy, but I have no idea if I'm helping or hurting by doing that.
That's what I started doing. Copy / paste seems to be the safest way... but there's nothing like kowing what you're doing and double checking ;).
March 10, 2009 at 6:46 am
Hey Hey Hey... Lets not get pessimistic... 🙂
Atleast there is a place where you can take out your frustration.. 😀 This place.
-Roy
March 10, 2009 at 7:11 am
I just maintain a practice in life, as on this site, of keeping my cynicism optimistic, and my elitism populist. It seems to work out for me.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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