February 28, 2011 at 8:28 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/28/2011)
GSquared (2/28/2011)
I think that's one of the reasons some companies are interested in "cloud computing", because then their code is on their server, and you can't reverse-compile it on your local machine.I always understood cloud computing to be your code on someone else's server across the internet. Granted, I can see it being set up in a WAN, but we've already got server based code in WAN / LAN environments, which doesn't strike me as the being the same thing as cloud.
You're right, I shouldn't have said, "their server". The point is that you don't install the "crown jewels" on a local desktop/laptop, it's running somewhere that can hide the actual code behind remote APIs.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 28, 2011 at 8:31 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/28/2011)
GSquared (2/28/2011)
I think that's one of the reasons some companies are interested in "cloud computing", because then their code is on their server, and you can't reverse-compile it on your local machine.I always understood cloud computing to be your code on someone else's server across the internet. Granted, I can see it being set up in a WAN, but we've already got server based code in WAN / LAN environments, which doesn't strike me as the being the same thing as cloud.
Sure, but the "cloud" is still a very vague idea and people are using the term in a lot of different ways. Code on a someone else's sever across the internet, data on someone else's server across the internet, both of those, Any of those on a WAN, being able to access your data across the internet from a range of devices, etc...
Mostly it means you have to pay a monthly fee to access what you already own. I believe the concept of "the cloud" came about when people at IBM or another large company were sitting around remeniscing about when everyone used terminals to access a mainframe and how it'd be great for their business model if things were still like that.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
February 28, 2011 at 8:32 am
GSquared (2/28/2011)
HowardW (2/28/2011)
GSquared (2/28/2011)
Yes. With Encryption is junk. A batch trace defeats it, if I remember correctly.And it uses a very easily reversible algorithm - I think Red Gate SQL Compare even has an option to automatically decrypt them so you can still script them.
Doesn't matter. They could improve the encryption till it's unbreakable, and it still needs to be run in the engine the same way as any other DML/DDL command, which means a trace can show it. If a trace can't, then C2 auditing can't, and that breaks all kinds of legal and security issues.
That's why, when Steve asked the original question, I asked whether he meant, "are people trying to protect their IP?", or "are people doing completely ineffective things in vain attempts to protect IP?".
You have to assume, if it can be installed on a machine that's not under your control, that the code will be known sooner or later. I think that's one of the reasons some companies are interested in "cloud computing", because then their code is on their server, and you can't reverse-compile it on your local machine.
I completely agree. It's virtually impossible to hide the code that's actually being run against SQL Server, I was merely adding that WITH ENCRYPTION is worthless in many ways 🙂
February 28, 2011 at 8:32 am
HowardW (2/28/2011)
GSquared (2/28/2011)
HowardW (2/28/2011)
GSquared (2/28/2011)
Yes. With Encryption is junk. A batch trace defeats it, if I remember correctly.And it uses a very easily reversible algorithm - I think Red Gate SQL Compare even has an option to automatically decrypt them so you can still script them.
Doesn't matter. They could improve the encryption till it's unbreakable, and it still needs to be run in the engine the same way as any other DML/DDL command, which means a trace can show it. If a trace can't, then C2 auditing can't, and that breaks all kinds of legal and security issues.
That's why, when Steve asked the original question, I asked whether he meant, "are people trying to protect their IP?", or "are people doing completely ineffective things in vain attempts to protect IP?".
You have to assume, if it can be installed on a machine that's not under your control, that the code will be known sooner or later. I think that's one of the reasons some companies are interested in "cloud computing", because then their code is on their server, and you can't reverse-compile it on your local machine.
I completely agree. It's virtually impossible to hide the code that's actually being run against SQL Server, I was merely adding that WITH ENCRYPTION is worthless in many ways 🙂
Yep.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 28, 2011 at 10:32 am
Just to be clear, we're still talking only about code here, right? And data encryption is still a necessary, and valid, business process, depending on what's being encrypted.
(A verification side note for those who may skim this thread in the future and see the previous 2 posts as saying "Encryption is useless" without noticing the "WITH" part of that phrase.)
February 28, 2011 at 10:50 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/28/2011)
Just to be clear, we're still talking only about code here, right? And data encryption is still a necessary, and valid, business process, depending on what's being encrypted
Data encryption in SQL is proper encryption. With encryption is just an obfuscation that's trivial to undo.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 28, 2011 at 11:05 am
Stefan Krzywicki (2/28/2011)
Brandie Tarvin (2/28/2011)
GSquared (2/28/2011)
I think that's one of the reasons some companies are interested in "cloud computing", because then their code is on their server, and you can't reverse-compile it on your local machine.I always understood cloud computing to be your code on someone else's server across the internet. Granted, I can see it being set up in a WAN, but we've already got server based code in WAN / LAN environments, which doesn't strike me as the being the same thing as cloud.
Sure, but the "cloud" is still a very vague idea and people are using the term in a lot of different ways. Code on a someone else's sever across the internet, data on someone else's server across the internet, both of those, Any of those on a WAN, being able to access your data across the internet from a range of devices, etc...
Mostly it means you have to pay a monthly fee to access what you already own. I believe the concept of "the cloud" came about when people at IBM or another large company were sitting around remeniscing about when everyone used terminals to access a mainframe and how it'd be great for their business model if things were still like that.
Ugh. The "cloud". Management buzzword of the past few years.
I have already been working with a cloud based email and messaging system.
It is called Hotmail... 😎
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
MCSE Business Intelligence - Microsoft Data Platform MVP
February 28, 2011 at 11:07 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/28/2011)
Just to be clear, we're still talking only about code here, right? And data encryption is still a necessary, and valid, business process, depending on what's being encrypted.(A verification side note for those who may skim this thread in the future and see the previous 2 posts as saying "Encryption is useless" without noticing the "WITH" part of that phrase.)
Exactly.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 28, 2011 at 11:09 am
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (2/28/2011)
Brandie Tarvin (2/28/2011)
GSquared (2/28/2011)
I think that's one of the reasons some companies are interested in "cloud computing", because then their code is on their server, and you can't reverse-compile it on your local machine.I always understood cloud computing to be your code on someone else's server across the internet. Granted, I can see it being set up in a WAN, but we've already got server based code in WAN / LAN environments, which doesn't strike me as the being the same thing as cloud.
Sure, but the "cloud" is still a very vague idea and people are using the term in a lot of different ways. Code on a someone else's sever across the internet, data on someone else's server across the internet, both of those, Any of those on a WAN, being able to access your data across the internet from a range of devices, etc...
Mostly it means you have to pay a monthly fee to access what you already own. I believe the concept of "the cloud" came about when people at IBM or another large company were sitting around remeniscing about when everyone used terminals to access a mainframe and how it'd be great for their business model if things were still like that.
Ugh. The "cloud". Management buzzword of the past few years.
I have already been working with a cloud based email and messaging system.
It is called Hotmail... 😎
And between Hotmail's issue last month (was it last month?) and Google's issue today, anyone who trusts any business-essential anything to "the cloud" is probably having second thoughts right about now.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 28, 2011 at 11:11 am
GSquared (2/28/2011)
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
Ugh. The "cloud". Management buzzword of the past few years.
I have already been working with a cloud based email and messaging system.
It is called Hotmail... 😎
And between Hotmail's issue last month (was it last month?) and Google's issue today, anyone who trusts any business-essential anything to "the cloud" is probably having second thoughts right about now.
I didn't have any issue. Maybe it was only in the USA? (by the way, the hotmail argument was a joke :-))
There are some pretty good services out there, I just can't stand the hype around it.
On the other hand, it can brighten up boring meetings by playing "buzzword bingo" 😀
Need an answer? No, you need a question
My blog at https://sqlkover.com.
MCSE Business Intelligence - Microsoft Data Platform MVP
February 28, 2011 at 11:24 am
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
GSquared (2/28/2011)
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
Ugh. The "cloud". Management buzzword of the past few years.
I have already been working with a cloud based email and messaging system.
It is called Hotmail... 😎
And between Hotmail's issue last month (was it last month?) and Google's issue today, anyone who trusts any business-essential anything to "the cloud" is probably having second thoughts right about now.
I didn't have any issue. Maybe it was only in the USA? (by the way, the hotmail argument was a joke :-))
There are some pretty good services out there, I just can't stand the hype around it.
On the other hand, it can brighten up boring meetings by playing "buzzword bingo" 😀
Data loss issues that affected very small percentages of users. The media hyped it up by mentioning the raw numbers ("150,000 users", blah blah blah) repeatedly, and only mentioning the percentage affected (0.03%) briefly, if at all. Similar in both cases.
Like the T-Mobile data loss a while back. It only affected a small percentage of people using an essentially obsolete phone, but the raw number planet-wide was "big" (multiple zeroes on the end), and that's what ends up in the FUD engines.
I have two hotmail accounts (well, one hotmail and one "live"), and neither was affected. I have two T-Mobile phones (mine and my wife's) and neither was affected. I have three gmail accounts, one was unaffected and I'll never know (or care) if the other two were because I never use them for anything but signing up for services that I expect to spam me.
And, yes, I was just continuing the bit about "the cloud" and its buzzwordiness. Buzzworthyness? Hmmm... not sure which I like better.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 28, 2011 at 11:29 am
GSquared (2/28/2011)
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
GSquared (2/28/2011)
Koen Verbeeck (2/28/2011)
Ugh. The "cloud". Management buzzword of the past few years.
I have already been working with a cloud based email and messaging system.
It is called Hotmail... 😎
And between Hotmail's issue last month (was it last month?) and Google's issue today, anyone who trusts any business-essential anything to "the cloud" is probably having second thoughts right about now.
I didn't have any issue. Maybe it was only in the USA? (by the way, the hotmail argument was a joke :-))
There are some pretty good services out there, I just can't stand the hype around it.
On the other hand, it can brighten up boring meetings by playing "buzzword bingo" 😀
Data loss issues that affected very small percentages of users. The media hyped it up by mentioning the raw numbers ("150,000 users", blah blah blah) repeatedly, and only mentioning the percentage affected (0.03%) briefly, if at all. Similar in both cases.
Like the T-Mobile data loss a while back. It only affected a small percentage of people using an essentially obsolete phone, but the raw number planet-wide was "big" (multiple zeroes on the end), and that's what ends up in the FUD engines.
I have two hotmail accounts (well, one hotmail and one "live"), and neither was affected. I have two T-Mobile phones (mine and my wife's) and neither was affected. I have three gmail accounts, one was unaffected and I'll never know (or care) if the other two were because I never use them for anything but signing up for services that I expect to spam me.
And, yes, I was just continuing the bit about "the cloud" and its buzzwordiness. Buzzworthyness? Hmmm... not sure which I like better.
I'd say "buzzwordiness" is a statement of fact, it has the status of buzzword. "Bussworthyness" is an opinion, do you think it deserves the status of buzzword.
As for the media hype, I think the number of users is entirely the wrong thing to focus on. How long was there a problem, how did the company address it, what was the eventual remedy. Those are the questions that matter.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
February 28, 2011 at 12:10 pm
I'm just growing tired of having to explain Microsoft's commercials to my wife. Some idiot on the screen says "To the Cloud..." and I have to explain that no, that's VPN, or no, that's Photoshop, and that's not new at all.
case in point: http://blog.juggle.com/2010/12/06/the-cloud-is-a-lie-how-microsofts-to-the-cloud-ads-confuse-and-mislead/[/url]
Wonderful marketing, I'm sure it allows them to sell "cloud-enabled" tech at a higher cost, but highly annoying.
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
February 28, 2011 at 12:13 pm
jcrawf02 (2/28/2011)
I'm just growing tired of having to explain Microsoft's commercials to my wife. Some idiot on the screen says "To the Cloud..." and I have to explain that no, that's VPN, or no, that's Photoshop, and that's not new at all.case in point: http://blog.juggle.com/2010/12/06/the-cloud-is-a-lie-how-microsofts-to-the-cloud-ads-confuse-and-mislead/[/url]
Wonderful marketing, I'm sure it allows them to sell "cloud-enabled" tech at a higher cost, but highly annoying.
I like the ad where they're in the airport and they can watch something they have Tivoed at home on their laptop. At the end when the woman says "Yay cloud" she sounds pretty sarcastic to me.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
February 28, 2011 at 12:52 pm
Stefan Krzywicki (2/28/2011)
jcrawf02 (2/28/2011)
I'm just growing tired of having to explain Microsoft's commercials to my wife. Some idiot on the screen says "To the Cloud..." and I have to explain that no, that's VPN, or no, that's Photoshop, and that's not new at all.case in point: http://blog.juggle.com/2010/12/06/the-cloud-is-a-lie-how-microsofts-to-the-cloud-ads-confuse-and-mislead/[/url]
Wonderful marketing, I'm sure it allows them to sell "cloud-enabled" tech at a higher cost, but highly annoying.
I like the ad where they're in the airport and they can watch something they have Tivoed at home on their laptop. At the end when the woman says "Yay cloud" she sounds pretty sarcastic to me.
When I read this quoted in your response, it almost comes across as a sexist remark, wanted to take this opportunity to apologize for the way that was phrased. I'm not explaining something to my wife *because* she's my wife, it's purely a coincidence that I know something that she doesn't. In fact, it happens so rarely that it makes it all the more annoying to waste it on something like bad marketing... 🙂
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
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