February 9, 2011 at 11:06 am
Stefan Krzywicki (2/9/2011)
CirquedeSQLeil (2/9/2011)
GSquared (2/9/2011)
That and the thread on "Where do you find DBAs" have made me wonder more about how managers pick DBAs.My previous place thinks that a network engineer, developer, and report writer are excellent judges of DBA skills. I had been helping with the interviews, but they no longer want my services.
I don't know how many times I heard from candidates that the difference between char and varchar is that varchar stores unicode and char doesn't. Incredulous. Worse - the developer, network engineer and report writer don't know either. Worse because they are supposed to be the evaluators of the skills and knowledge of the candidate and they won't know any better when somebody is feeding them a line.
I've been places where the solution to not finding suitable candidates is to stop letting qualified people help interview. It seems a common "solution". They always seem surprised when the person they end up hiring doesn't work out.
IMHO - bad business practice and decision there.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
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SQL RNNR
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February 9, 2011 at 11:15 am
Stefan Krzywicki (2/9/2011)
GSquared (2/9/2011)That and the thread on "Where do you find DBAs" have made me wonder more about how managers pick DBAs. I know how I would, were I to go back into management, but it made me see a blind spot on that side of the table that we, as DBAs, probably haven't provided enough information about.
A site, or whatever, on the subject of picking decent DBAs is probably something recruiters and managers would love to have. They can't really filter for technical expertise the way we could. And haven't we all lamented about "how did that idiot ever become a DBA????" enough? Maybe it's time for us to step up to the plate and make some suggestions on the subject, and make them public enough to be of some use in that scenario. Instead of "SQL for Dummies", perhaps "A Manager's Guide to DBAs"?
It isn't a bad idea, but it has to be general enough, suggesting concepts and ideas to check for, or it'll become another website where the manager gets a checklist and another website where bad prospects get answers to questions for the interview.
If you aren't technical yourself, it can be really difficult to determine if the person you're interviewing is blowing smoke or knows their stuff. More valuable than a book would be a service. Hire out to do interviews. The only problem there is how do managers know you know enough to do the interview? Ah, recursive problems : -)
It would obviously have to start with some people well enough known to be trusted on the subject. There's always going to be a level of trust needed, but most managers aren't in a position to even know where to start on that.
A site where a manager can say, "Bob recommended Doug to me as a DBA, and Doug turned out to be ..." (Select One: Awesome/Excellent/Good Enough/Poor/Bad/A Freaking Disaster). Not necessarily linked to Doug, but definitely used to score Bob's ability to recommend people. LinkedIn already provides some of that functionality. With a database like that, it would be possible, over time, to tell who could give a good tech screening interview, and who was busy making a living off of giving passing grades to complete morons, and shades in between. If half of Bob's twenty recommendations are in the Awesome/Excellent range, and only one has ever turned out to A Freaking Disaster, then it's probably safe to assume he knows how to screen people well enough. You don't have to know the names of who he's recommended, just his success rate in doing so. That prevents libel lawsuits from Doug when he turns out to have been A Freaking Disaster ten times in a row from ten different people recommending him.
I definitely wouldn't recommend a list of tech questions. I'd recommend suggestions on how to tell dross from gold, like "Check SQLServerCentral.com and see if the person has helped solve real problems", "Check for recommendations on LinkedIn, from people who are currently working as DBAs", "Don't bother with ProoveIt tests", "Visit your local PASS chapter for prospects" (you'd be surprised how many recruiters I mention that to who suddenly have lights go on behind their eyes and say, "hey, good idea!").
I'm wondering if something like that would be monetizable. I'm pretty sure the "can it be done" is "yes", and the "should it be done" is "maybe". The "can it be useful" hinges on money or other valuation. The "will anyone use it" is the big question.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 9, 2011 at 11:15 am
Brandie Tarvin (2/9/2011)
Dave Ballantyne (2/9/2011)
Handed my notice in today , i can already feel the freedom 🙂Actually, that's just the wind blowing up your kilt. @=)
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February 9, 2011 at 11:16 am
ALZDBA (2/9/2011)
GilaMonster (2/9/2011)
...To put things in context, my desktop (which I'll be using for this) blue screened this morning then, on reboot failed POST repeatedly.
Am hoping it's a once-off, or easy to repair. Will see if it boots this evening.
My managers new remark for things that go wrong:
"That wouldn't have happened if you'd virtualized the darn thing"
Of course a no-brainer statement that doesn't help with the situation. :sick:
I'd love to hear your manager's justification for thinking that virtualisation would fix a physical machine's power on self test failing with a memory error. If the memory chip is bad (and I've been suspecting for a while that it is), that would take down anything running on that machine, bare-metal OS or virtual machines.
Just sayin'
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 9, 2011 at 11:19 am
GilaMonster (2/9/2011)
ALZDBA (2/9/2011)
GilaMonster (2/9/2011)
...To put things in context, my desktop (which I'll be using for this) blue screened this morning then, on reboot failed POST repeatedly.
Am hoping it's a once-off, or easy to repair. Will see if it boots this evening.
My managers new remark for things that go wrong:
"That wouldn't have happened if you'd virtualized the darn thing"
Of course a no-brainer statement that doesn't help with the situation. :sick:
I'd love to hear your manager's justification for thinking that virtualisation would fix a physical machine's power on self test failing with a memory error. If the memory chip is bad (and I've been suspecting for a while that it is), that would take down anything running on that machine, bare-metal OS or virtual machines.
Just sayin'
Oh come on! Think solution-oriented here!
All you need to do is put your laptop on a rack with other laptops, hook them up into a single virtual machine, and if one fails, the others pick up the load while you fix the broken one! Sure it might be a bit slower while one of them is down, but things keep running in the meantime!
😛
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 9, 2011 at 11:22 am
jcrawf02 (2/9/2011)
Anybody have suggestions (blog/thread/article/advice) for me on how to find whether a value in one column contains a value in a different table's column?Currently I'm doing this, but it sucketh, looking for the value in phrases.condition to be present in the census.initialComplaint column.
SELECT *
FROM dbo.CM_EDcensus AS census
CROSS JOIN dbo.cm_edCensusPhrases AS phrases
WHERE
--find phrases
CHARINDEX(phrases.condition,LTRIM(RTRIM(census.initialComplaint)))>0
OR
PATINDEX('%'+phrases.condition+'%',LTRIM(RTRIM(census.initialComplaint)))>0
hoping there's a way faster process to do that
Other than FullText I don't know a better way. I suggested something similar in this thread if you want to look.
Maybe the old split string method using a tally table with the condition as the delimiter?
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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February 9, 2011 at 11:26 am
Jack Corbett (2/9/2011)
jcrawf02 (2/9/2011)
Anybody have suggestions (blog/thread/article/advice) for me on how to find whether a value in one column contains a value in a different table's column?Currently I'm doing this, but it sucketh, looking for the value in phrases.condition to be present in the census.initialComplaint column.
SELECT *
FROM dbo.CM_EDcensus AS census
CROSS JOIN dbo.cm_edCensusPhrases AS phrases
WHERE
--find phrases
CHARINDEX(phrases.condition,LTRIM(RTRIM(census.initialComplaint)))>0
OR
PATINDEX('%'+phrases.condition+'%',LTRIM(RTRIM(census.initialComplaint)))>0
hoping there's a way faster process to do that
Other than FullText I don't know a better way. I suggested something similar in this thread if you want to look.
Maybe the old split string method using a tally table with the condition as the delimiter?
Another vote for FullText here too.
(And a suggestion to post technical questions on the tech forums and then link to them here.)
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 9, 2011 at 11:33 am
GSquared (2/9/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (2/9/2011)
GSquared (2/9/2011)That and the thread on "Where do you find DBAs" have made me wonder more about how managers pick DBAs. I know how I would, were I to go back into management, but it made me see a blind spot on that side of the table that we, as DBAs, probably haven't provided enough information about.
A site, or whatever, on the subject of picking decent DBAs is probably something recruiters and managers would love to have. They can't really filter for technical expertise the way we could. And haven't we all lamented about "how did that idiot ever become a DBA????" enough? Maybe it's time for us to step up to the plate and make some suggestions on the subject, and make them public enough to be of some use in that scenario. Instead of "SQL for Dummies", perhaps "A Manager's Guide to DBAs"?
It isn't a bad idea, but it has to be general enough, suggesting concepts and ideas to check for, or it'll become another website where the manager gets a checklist and another website where bad prospects get answers to questions for the interview.
If you aren't technical yourself, it can be really difficult to determine if the person you're interviewing is blowing smoke or knows their stuff. More valuable than a book would be a service. Hire out to do interviews. The only problem there is how do managers know you know enough to do the interview? Ah, recursive problems : -)
It would obviously have to start with some people well enough known to be trusted on the subject. There's always going to be a level of trust needed, but most managers aren't in a position to even know where to start on that.
A site where a manager can say, "Bob recommended Doug to me as a DBA, and Doug turned out to be ..." (Select One: Awesome/Excellent/Good Enough/Poor/Bad/A Freaking Disaster). Not necessarily linked to Doug, but definitely used to score Bob's ability to recommend people. LinkedIn already provides some of that functionality. With a database like that, it would be possible, over time, to tell who could give a good tech screening interview, and who was busy making a living off of giving passing grades to complete morons, and shades in between. If half of Bob's twenty recommendations are in the Awesome/Excellent range, and only one has ever turned out to A Freaking Disaster, then it's probably safe to assume he knows how to screen people well enough. You don't have to know the names of who he's recommended, just his success rate in doing so. That prevents libel lawsuits from Doug when he turns out to have been A Freaking Disaster ten times in a row from ten different people recommending him.
I definitely wouldn't recommend a list of tech questions. I'd recommend suggestions on how to tell dross from gold, like "Check SQLServerCentral.com and see if the person has helped solve real problems", "Check for recommendations on LinkedIn, from people who are currently working as DBAs", "Don't bother with ProoveIt tests", "Visit your local PASS chapter for prospects" (you'd be surprised how many recruiters I mention that to who suddenly have lights go on behind their eyes and say, "hey, good idea!").
I'm wondering if something like that would be monetizable. I'm pretty sure the "can it be done" is "yes", and the "should it be done" is "maybe". The "can it be useful" hinges on money or other valuation. The "will anyone use it" is the big question.
I think it could be, but that it'd have a very slow start-up as it built reputation. The website would likely have to be free or ad supported with the hiring to do the interviews as the revenue source. Perhaps companies pay a fee to the site to hire an interviewer. The interviewers would do best as part time interviewers so they can keep their skills sharp in tech.
--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
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What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
February 9, 2011 at 11:36 am
Jan Van der Eecken (2/9/2011)
You know, I read through that whole thread, and somewhere mid-way I started wondering whether nadabadan himself wasn't actually the interviewer. I guess I am certainly wrong, but who knows?Edit: Changed "may be wrong" to "am certainly wrong"
I thought the same thing.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
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SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
February 9, 2011 at 11:40 am
Stefan Krzywicki (2/9/2011)
GSquared (2/9/2011)
Stefan Krzywicki (2/9/2011)
GSquared (2/9/2011)That and the thread on "Where do you find DBAs" have made me wonder more about how managers pick DBAs. I know how I would, were I to go back into management, but it made me see a blind spot on that side of the table that we, as DBAs, probably haven't provided enough information about.
A site, or whatever, on the subject of picking decent DBAs is probably something recruiters and managers would love to have. They can't really filter for technical expertise the way we could. And haven't we all lamented about "how did that idiot ever become a DBA????" enough? Maybe it's time for us to step up to the plate and make some suggestions on the subject, and make them public enough to be of some use in that scenario. Instead of "SQL for Dummies", perhaps "A Manager's Guide to DBAs"?
It isn't a bad idea, but it has to be general enough, suggesting concepts and ideas to check for, or it'll become another website where the manager gets a checklist and another website where bad prospects get answers to questions for the interview.
If you aren't technical yourself, it can be really difficult to determine if the person you're interviewing is blowing smoke or knows their stuff. More valuable than a book would be a service. Hire out to do interviews. The only problem there is how do managers know you know enough to do the interview? Ah, recursive problems : -)
It would obviously have to start with some people well enough known to be trusted on the subject. There's always going to be a level of trust needed, but most managers aren't in a position to even know where to start on that.
A site where a manager can say, "Bob recommended Doug to me as a DBA, and Doug turned out to be ..." (Select One: Awesome/Excellent/Good Enough/Poor/Bad/A Freaking Disaster). Not necessarily linked to Doug, but definitely used to score Bob's ability to recommend people. LinkedIn already provides some of that functionality. With a database like that, it would be possible, over time, to tell who could give a good tech screening interview, and who was busy making a living off of giving passing grades to complete morons, and shades in between. If half of Bob's twenty recommendations are in the Awesome/Excellent range, and only one has ever turned out to A Freaking Disaster, then it's probably safe to assume he knows how to screen people well enough. You don't have to know the names of who he's recommended, just his success rate in doing so. That prevents libel lawsuits from Doug when he turns out to have been A Freaking Disaster ten times in a row from ten different people recommending him.
I definitely wouldn't recommend a list of tech questions. I'd recommend suggestions on how to tell dross from gold, like "Check SQLServerCentral.com and see if the person has helped solve real problems", "Check for recommendations on LinkedIn, from people who are currently working as DBAs", "Don't bother with ProoveIt tests", "Visit your local PASS chapter for prospects" (you'd be surprised how many recruiters I mention that to who suddenly have lights go on behind their eyes and say, "hey, good idea!").
I'm wondering if something like that would be monetizable. I'm pretty sure the "can it be done" is "yes", and the "should it be done" is "maybe". The "can it be useful" hinges on money or other valuation. The "will anyone use it" is the big question.
I think it could be, but that it'd have a very slow start-up as it built reputation. The website would likely have to be free or ad supported with the hiring to do the interviews as the revenue source. Perhaps companies pay a fee to the site to hire an interviewer. The interviewers would do best as part time interviewers so they can keep their skills sharp in tech.
You could probably start out the monetization on it by getting referral fees from recruiting companies. That'd be your main clientelle anyway.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 9, 2011 at 12:06 pm
GilaMonster (2/9/2011)
ALZDBA (2/9/2011)
GilaMonster (2/9/2011)
...To put things in context, my desktop (which I'll be using for this) blue screened this morning then, on reboot failed POST repeatedly.
Am hoping it's a once-off, or easy to repair. Will see if it boots this evening.
My managers new remark for things that go wrong:
"That wouldn't have happened if you'd virtualized the darn thing"
Of course a no-brainer statement that doesn't help with the situation. :sick:
I'd love to hear your manager's justification for thinking that virtualisation would fix a physical machine's power on self test failing with a memory error. If the memory chip is bad (and I've been suspecting for a while that it is), that would take down anything running on that machine, bare-metal OS or virtual machines.
Just sayin'
I know, We know, everyone nows .... but managers focus is elsewhere.
I hope you get your laptop fixed very soon.
Johan
Learn to play, play to learn !
Dont drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ...
but keeping both feet on the ground wont get you anywhere :w00t:
- How to post Performance Problems
- How to post data/code to get the best help[/url]
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February 9, 2011 at 12:27 pm
ALZDBA (2/9/2011)
I hope you get your laptop fixed very soon.
Laptop's fine (fortunately). It's my desktop PC that bluescreened. Not major concerned if it is memory, it's getting a CPU, motherbard, memory replacement when I get back from Seattle.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
February 9, 2011 at 1:22 pm
CirquedeSQLeil (2/9/2011)
jcrawf02 (2/9/2011)
Anybody have suggestions (blog/thread/article/advice) for me on how to find whether a value in one column contains a value in a different table's column?Currently I'm doing this, but it sucketh, looking for the value in phrases.condition to be present in the census.initialComplaint column.
SELECT *
FROM dbo.CM_EDcensus AS census
CROSS JOIN dbo.cm_edCensusPhrases AS phrases
WHERE
--find phrases
CHARINDEX(phrases.condition,LTRIM(RTRIM(census.initialComplaint)))>0
OR
PATINDEX('%'+phrases.condition+'%',LTRIM(RTRIM(census.initialComplaint)))>0
hoping there's a way faster process to do that
Have you tried fulltext indexes and enabling fulltext?
No, and since I'm only doing this for one report, not sure I'll have the argument I need. However, it is in support of a hugely important initiative (in terms of bottom line) so maybe I'll be surprised.
Thanks though, definitely something to pursue.
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
February 9, 2011 at 1:37 pm
Jack Corbett (2/9/2011)
Other than FullText I don't know a better way. I suggested something similar in this thread if you want to look.Maybe the old split string method using a tally table with the condition as the delimiter?
Thanks Jack. Condition as a delimiter made me blink, I'm going to have to try that.
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
February 9, 2011 at 1:42 pm
GSquared (2/9/2011)
Jack Corbett (2/9/2011)
Other than FullText I don't know a better way. I suggested something similar in this thread if you want to look.Maybe the old split string method using a tally table with the condition as the delimiter?
Another vote for FullText here too.
(And a suggestion to post technical questions on the tech forums and then link to them here.)
Apologies, duly noted. Thanks for the vote
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
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