March 6, 2009 at 11:14 am
GilaMonster (3/6/2009)
RBarryYoung (3/6/2009)
You know this is the most amazing part to me, how can an MSDN moderator act like this?Something occurred to me...
How much of that came about because we didn't show the expected respect and awe for position/title? (As in, his expectation)
...
He committed multiple sins in the ethos of on-line posting. Including tying to tell Steve how to do his job too. He was actually most ticked off that Steve did not just shut down the threads as soon as someone disagreed with him! (If that was how it worked here, he would have been shut down for his posts first.)
Attitude of someone who's used to being in charge and saying how things should and will be done?
Yeah, I definitely agree with you there, Gail. In fact, I would go a little further and say that there might have been a little site-based condescension as well.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
March 6, 2009 at 11:24 am
I think that some things should be pointed out here, lest someone reading these posts gets the wrong idea...
First, there is no such thing as an "MSDN MVP" it's just "MVP", they are all the same, in that respect anyway.
Secondly, and I think that I can speak for most of us here on this, no one should read this and think that this is any way a slam on MVP's, MSDN, the MSDN forums or the MSDN moderators. In fact, my surprise is largely founded on the fact that this behavior seems so uncharacteristic of these different groups.
In particular, I have great respect for the MVP's and for the MVP program. We are very fortunate to have some excellent MVP's regularly active on these forums. And in my experience, Gail, Steve and Jeff (there are several other less active ones here as well) are good representatives of what MVP's in general are like: knowledgeable, varied, diverse, courteous and helpful.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
March 6, 2009 at 11:27 am
RBarryYoung (3/6/2009)
I think that some things should be pointed out here, lest someone reading these posts gets the wrong idea...First, there is no such thing as an "MSDN MVP" it's just "MVP", they are all the same, in that respect anyway.
Secondly, and I think that I can speak for most of us here on this, no one should read this and think that this is any way a slam on MVP's, MSDN, the MSDN forums or the MSDN moderators. In fact, my surprise is largely founded on the fact that this behavior seems so uncharacteristic of these different groups.
In particular, I have great respect for the MVP's and for the MVP program. We are very fortunate to have some excellent MVP's regularly active on these forums. And in my experience, Gail, Steve and Jeff (there are several other less active ones here as well) are good representatives of what MVP's in general are like: knowledgeable, varied, diverse, courteous and helpful.
Ditto, especially the praise heaped on our local MVP's.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 6, 2009 at 11:50 am
Sloppy typing on my part guys. "MSDN MVP" should read in full "MVP / MSDN Moderator". Please understand that I have great respect for the MVPs who hang around here. In fact, I've been downright humbled. But I have also profited so much from being able to learn from you all, MVPs and non-MVPs alike.
However, my respect doesn't extend to this man who is the topic of so much recent conversation because I've seen nothing from him that shows any real understanding. I will freely confess that it irks me for him to have a credential that suggests he's somehow more knowledgable or experienced. Frankly, he hasn't shown enough game to be on the court with me, much less some of you true wizards.
I truly hope that he is the exception that proves the rule when it comes to MVPs.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
March 6, 2009 at 11:58 am
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic668871-338-2.aspx#bm669990
GSquared (3/6/2009)
I'm surprised, with your credentials, that you don't know that. Or is writing and performance-tuning SQL not your strong point?
Good one G. I don't like to kick someone when they're down but I truly despise arrogance and this man is truly full of himself. Unfortunately, he's not the only one MSDN who possesses that same trait (I won't name names but I'm sure some of you know of whom I speak). Remember the old adage, bird's of a feather stick (sh*t?) together". 😉
-- You can't be late until you show up.
March 6, 2009 at 12:07 pm
We probably need to keep in mind that "MVP" != "Highly knowledgable about T-SQL". I don't know what the selection criteria are, but it could just be that he has been really good for the SQL Server community in some way that doesn't intersect our small part of the community. I doubt it, but it's always possible.
In a connected way, I definitely consider Joe Celko an MVP in the SQL Server community. At the same time, I disagree with him on a lot of things. I think his insistence on adherence to relatively arbitrary standards is a hinderance. But that doesn't make him less of a "mover and shaker" in the world of MS SQL. This guy might have something like that going. And, to be honest, Joe isn't the politest person ever to walk the Earth. (Neither am I for that matter, but I'm also not an MVP, so it doesn't particularly pertain here.)
Honestly, though, I really do consider Mangle to be vicious and pretty much useless. But I do have to take into account that he may have earned the MVP thing, just not through stellar application of clever implementations of T-SQL.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 6, 2009 at 12:12 pm
tosscrosby (3/6/2009)
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic668871-338-2.aspx#bm669990GSquared (3/6/2009)
I'm surprised, with your credentials, that you don't know that. Or is writing and performance-tuning SQL not your strong point?Good one G. I don't like to kick someone when they're down but I truly despise arrogance and this man is truly full of himself. Unfortunately, he's not the only one MSDN who possesses that same trait (I won't name names but I'm sure some of you know of whom I speak). Remember the old adage, bird's of a feather stick (sh*t?) together". 😉
I am NOT going to disparage MSDN at all. I've gotten quite a few solutions by searching the forums there. I don't think I've ever posted there, but I have found useful answers there many, many times.
On the other hand, I have negative respect for Mr Mangle. I'm perfectly happy, at this point, to be snarky with him. It's belittles me, that I act that way sometimes, but I'll live with that flaw for now.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 6, 2009 at 12:25 pm
But I do have to take into account that he may have earned the MVP thing, just not through stellar application of clever implementations of T-SQL.
I could accept that if he wasn't acting as if that were the case. When he wanders around offering half-asked solutions, he damages the effort to get others to use the best solutions. What's worse, he will tell some employer or client "I'm a recognized authority on SQL. I'm a regular contributor at the MSDN site and the SSC Site, and have my own blog and everything."
If he earned his MVP in some other area, he should stick to his area of expertise. I don't try to tell my dentist how to handle my teeth, and he doesn't offer me programming tips 😉
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
March 6, 2009 at 12:40 pm
GSquared (3/6/2009)
We probably need to keep in mind that "MVP" != "Highly knowledgable about T-SQL".
No, but MVP for SQL Server does (or at least should) mean highly knowledgeable in one or more areas of SQL Server.
Yes, people do have their specialty areas (mine's performance tuning with a side of database recovery, you won't see me telling someone how to use SSRS), but they are supposed to be highly knowledgeable about some part
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 6, 2009 at 1:33 pm
At this point, I'm calling this a troll.
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/FindPost670625.aspx
Remember, don't feed the trolls.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 6, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Grant Fritchey (3/6/2009)
Remember, don't feed the trolls.
'Nuff said.
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
March 6, 2009 at 1:54 pm
It has become a war now....
-Roy
March 6, 2009 at 2:00 pm
GSquared (3/6/2009)
tosscrosby (3/6/2009)
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic668871-338-2.aspx#bm669990GSquared (3/6/2009)
I'm surprised, with your credentials, that you don't know that. Or is writing and performance-tuning SQL not your strong point?Good one G. I don't like to kick someone when they're down but I truly despise arrogance and this man is truly full of himself. Unfortunately, he's not the only one MSDN who possesses that same trait (I won't name names but I'm sure some of you know of whom I speak). Remember the old adage, bird's of a feather stick (sh*t?) together". 😉
On the other hand, I have negative respect for Mr Mangle. I'm perfectly happy, at this point, to be snarky with him. It's belittles me, that I act that way sometimes, but I'll live with that flaw for now.
Well, I'm certainly not going to correct you for it but I do know that in all your other posts there is far more gentleness which I have greatly appreciated. I know I look forward to all your posts based on that and the skill that you have constantly exhibited. So, I guess this is my encouragement to that end.... 😉
David
@SQLTentmaker“He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose” - Jim Elliot
March 6, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Grant Fritchey (3/6/2009)
Remember, don't feed the trolls.
Indeed. He thinks we hate him, let's not prove him right.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 6, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Grant Fritchey (3/6/2009)
At this point, I'm calling this a troll.http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/FindPost670625.aspx
Remember, don't feed the trolls.
Heh... what? They don't like pork chops? 😉
I told him to stop trolling way back on the first post. And, he's changed his handle again... now it's "CTE".
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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