November 12, 2010 at 9:06 am
Stefan Krzywicki (11/12/2010)
Once everone who went to PASS is back (I think it is over now, yes?) is there any chance we'll get to hear your impressions of Denali? Did they tell you much about Projects Atlanta, Apollo or Crescent? I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.
Lots of stuff in Database Weekly this week. Tons of blogs talking about changes.
November 12, 2010 at 9:08 am
WayneS (11/12/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (11/11/2010)
WayneS (11/11/2010)
WayneS (11/11/2010)
Well, I'm off to give my first presentation of "Comparing Tables Variables and Temporary Tables" to my UG tonight. Wish me good tidings, smooth talk, and all the other stuff you need for public speaking.Well, I think it went pretty well. In a similar vein to Gail's "statistics" 5 times in a minute, I did get a little bit tongue-tied saying "tempdb" and "temporary tables" in the same sentence. I ran the PowerPoint presentation in presenter mode, but then ran into some minor issues flipping back and forth with SSMS and my virtual machine back to the slide. I might try setting up the monitor in slave mode the next time.
I started the presentation asking questions. Everyone thought that table variables were 1. memory-only, 2. did no logging, and 3. had no indexes. Now, about 20 more people know better.
Congrats and good job.
When can I book you to speak for my User Group - same topic?
Almost anytime - though we need to ensure a better internet connection than what I ran into trying to view your last meeting.
Agreed - that was the worst I had seen since coming down here. I may run future presos off of my aircard at 4G to ensure reliability.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
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November 12, 2010 at 9:15 am
WayneS (11/12/2010)
I assume you mean with the OPTION (RECOMPILE) hint? Sure did.
Doesnt this just completely negate any advantage of table vars though ? .
The main reason to use a table var is to avoid stored procedure recompiles ( which since 2005 isnt an issue anyway due to statements being cached). So now its a statement that *may* recompile with a temp table to a statement that will always recompile with a table var.
November 12, 2010 at 9:16 am
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/12/2010)
Must be the Urgent! that rattled you.
Not just. I've been getting change requests at about 2 mails per day (multiple items per mail) this week. This is the 3rd or 4th 'change' that's requesting existing functionality. There are changes listed multiple times phrased differently, comments and requests for clarification that I make seem to get ignored, etc.
Gatvol is the local term that describes how I feel about this whole thing my now.
The actual email reply was a little more expansive and a bit more diplomatic.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
November 12, 2010 at 9:43 am
WayneS (11/12/2010)
I assume you mean with the OPTION (RECOMPILE) hint? Sure did.
Yes, but as Jeff pointed out, any recompilation will do - it doesn't have to be explicitly requested (for example with a query hint).
November 12, 2010 at 9:45 am
Dave Ballantyne (11/12/2010)
WayneS (11/12/2010)
I assume you mean with the OPTION (RECOMPILE) hint? Sure did.
Doesnt this just completely negate any advantage of table vars though ? .
The main reason to use a table var is to avoid stored procedure recompiles ( which since 2005 isnt an issue anyway due to statements being cached). So now its a statement that *may* recompile with a temp table to a statement that will always recompile with a table var.
I use table variables when I need to store multi-row data that needs to survive a rollback command. Other than that, I really don't use them. That feature comes in handy in some error handling scenarios.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
November 12, 2010 at 10:07 am
GSquared (11/12/2010)
Dave Ballantyne (11/12/2010)
WayneS (11/12/2010)
I assume you mean with the OPTION (RECOMPILE) hint? Sure did.
Doesnt this just completely negate any advantage of table vars though ? .
The main reason to use a table var is to avoid stored procedure recompiles ( which since 2005 isnt an issue anyway due to statements being cached). So now its a statement that *may* recompile with a temp table to a statement that will always recompile with a table var.
I use table variables when I need to store multi-row data that needs to survive a rollback command. Other than that, I really don't use them. That feature comes in handy in some error handling scenarios.
Agreed. This, and usage where table vars are the only option (TVFs, parameter to procedure) is about the only place I use them.
Although, one place where they come in very handy is in posting code on the forums here - I don't have to worry about cleaning up the tables when I'm done testing. (I just deleted about a dozen tables from my SandBox database where I had used real tables for some reason.)
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
November 12, 2010 at 10:09 am
GilaMonster (11/12/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/12/2010)
Must be the Urgent! that rattled you.Not just. I've been getting change requests at about 2 mails per day (multiple items per mail) this week. This is the 3rd or 4th 'change' that's requesting existing functionality. There are changes listed multiple times phrased differently, comments and requests for clarification that I make seem to get ignored, etc.
Gatvol is the local term that describes how I feel about this whole thing my now.
The actual email reply was a little more expansive and a bit more diplomatic.
A good reason to not move too fast on requests. They might get changed before they're done 😉
November 12, 2010 at 10:49 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/12/2010)
GilaMonster (11/12/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/12/2010)
Must be the Urgent! that rattled you.Not just. I've been getting change requests at about 2 mails per day (multiple items per mail) this week. This is the 3rd or 4th 'change' that's requesting existing functionality. There are changes listed multiple times phrased differently, comments and requests for clarification that I make seem to get ignored, etc.
Gatvol is the local term that describes how I feel about this whole thing my now.
The actual email reply was a little more expansive and a bit more diplomatic.
A good reason to not move too fast on requests. They might get changed before they're done 😉
Moving fast gives the illusion of speed.
I always like that - someone requests a change but it already works that way.
We know nothing - we are just an obstacle slowing them down.
Greg E
November 12, 2010 at 10:53 am
WayneS (11/12/2010)
GSquared (11/12/2010)
Dave Ballantyne (11/12/2010)
WayneS (11/12/2010)
I assume you mean with the OPTION (RECOMPILE) hint? Sure did.
Doesnt this just completely negate any advantage of table vars though ? .
The main reason to use a table var is to avoid stored procedure recompiles ( which since 2005 isnt an issue anyway due to statements being cached). So now its a statement that *may* recompile with a temp table to a statement that will always recompile with a table var.
I use table variables when I need to store multi-row data that needs to survive a rollback command. Other than that, I really don't use them. That feature comes in handy in some error handling scenarios.
Agreed. This, and usage where table vars are the only option (TVFs, parameter to procedure) is about the only place I use them.
Although, one place where they come in very handy is in posting code on the forums here - I don't have to worry about cleaning up the tables when I'm done testing. (I just deleted about a dozen tables from my SandBox database where I had used real tables for some reason.)
I either do the testing in tempdb, or use temp tables, or both. Don't need to bother with clean-up.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
November 12, 2010 at 10:55 am
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/12/2010)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/12/2010)
GilaMonster (11/12/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/12/2010)
Must be the Urgent! that rattled you.Not just. I've been getting change requests at about 2 mails per day (multiple items per mail) this week. This is the 3rd or 4th 'change' that's requesting existing functionality. There are changes listed multiple times phrased differently, comments and requests for clarification that I make seem to get ignored, etc.
Gatvol is the local term that describes how I feel about this whole thing my now.
The actual email reply was a little more expansive and a bit more diplomatic.
A good reason to not move too fast on requests. They might get changed before they're done 😉
Moving fast gives the illusion of speed.
I always like that - someone requests a change but it already works that way.
We know nothing - we are just an obstacle slowing them down.
Greg E
No! No! No! You guys are doing this ALL wrong!
When you get a request for something you already built in, you're supposed to say, "that's going to be tricky, but I think I can get it done tomorrow", then, about an hour later, you report back, "I found a really clever way to get that new request done ahead of deadline". 😀
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
November 12, 2010 at 11:01 am
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/12/2010)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (11/12/2010)
GilaMonster (11/12/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (11/12/2010)
Must be the Urgent! that rattled you.Not just. I've been getting change requests at about 2 mails per day (multiple items per mail) this week. This is the 3rd or 4th 'change' that's requesting existing functionality. There are changes listed multiple times phrased differently, comments and requests for clarification that I make seem to get ignored, etc.
Gatvol is the local term that describes how I feel about this whole thing my now.
The actual email reply was a little more expansive and a bit more diplomatic.
A good reason to not move too fast on requests. They might get changed before they're done 😉
Moving fast gives the illusion of speed.
I always like that - someone requests a change but it already works that way.
We know nothing - we are just an obstacle slowing them down.
Greg E
That's when you wait a day and then tell them it's done. *Edit* What Gus said 😉
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
November 12, 2010 at 11:41 am
GSquared (11/12/2010)
No! No! No! You guys are doing this ALL wrong!When you get a request for something you already built in, you're supposed to say, "that's going to be tricky, but I think I can get it done tomorrow", then, about an hour later, you report back, "I found a really clever way to get that new request done ahead of deadline". 😀
Now you're sounding like Scotty, The Miracle Worker on Star Trek. Exactly right.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
November 12, 2010 at 12:13 pm
WayneS (11/12/2010)
GSquared (11/12/2010)
No! No! No! You guys are doing this ALL wrong!When you get a request for something you already built in, you're supposed to say, "that's going to be tricky, but I think I can get it done tomorrow", then, about an hour later, you report back, "I found a really clever way to get that new request done ahead of deadline". 😀
Now you're sounding like Scotty, The Miracle Worker on Star Trek. Exactly right.
I can attest he doesn't sound like Scotty. No brogue. 😀
-- Kit
November 12, 2010 at 12:25 pm
GilaMonster (11/12/2010)
I swear this project is going to drive me to drink.Email from BA/architect:
Urgent! Business confirms that it is possible to have more than one X per Y. Out design must cater for this.
My reply:
During my initial analysis I identified that this was the case based on a discussion with <someone>. The current system design allows for any number of X per Y and has done so since the beginning.
Gail is the time you spend answering these e-mails billable to the client?
If so ... rejoice, if not it should be.
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