March 2, 2009 at 1:45 pm
GilaMonster (3/2/2009)
1) http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1207362) http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic666657-266-1.aspx
Why do people have no backups, no regular backups, no offsite backups, etc, etc.
Hard to imagine why, but it seems to be common enough.
It's dead, Jim
March 2, 2009 at 1:45 pm
GilaMonster (3/2/2009)
1) http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1207362) http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic666657-266-1.aspx
Why do people have no backups, no regular backups, no offsite backups, etc, etc.
I've been fighting that fight here. How about:
1) Off-site storage costs too much.
2) We've never experienced a corrupt database.
3) The SAN will never go down.
I'm sure others can come up with more excuses.
We have regular backups, but nothing really goes offsite.
March 2, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Gail and Steve, I understand why you always want to discuss the full problem when you see someone about to go seriously wrong. But there is the point I hesitated to make clearly.
Unlike the situation at Gail's workplace, a lot of newcomers here don't know who has the expertise and who doesn't. Maybe Mh does, I don't know. They don't know that their question has been asked many times before, and they certainly don't know all the guru's personal opinions or frustrations.
Not knowing that, it is really easy for a newbie to read Gail's "Why?" and Jeff's "Why do you want to do this to a perfectly good database?" as sarcastic arrogance which I don't believe was intended by either of them. [ At least not in this case 😉 ] It makes the people who actually answered look so much friendlier and more helpful, even though they may be giving bad advice. If the OP takes a bad solution and runs, what has been accomplished?
All I'm saying is give them a little more to reason to discuss their situation with you.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
March 2, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Bob,
Good points and I'll try to remember to clarify a bit. I usually do post a "why do you want this. Perhaps we have another solution" with my query.
March 2, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Lynn Pettis (3/2/2009)
GilaMonster (3/2/2009)
1) http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1207362) http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic666657-266-1.aspx
Why do people have no backups, no regular backups, no offsite backups, etc, etc.
I've been fighting that fight here. How about:
1) Off-site storage costs too much.
2) We've never experienced a corrupt database.
3) The SAN will never go down.
I'm sure others can come up with more excuses.
We have regular backups, but nothing really goes offsite.
Where I'm at, and I need to check, I do backups to a local drive that are then moved to tape as part of the normal administrative backups. Those tapes are moved to another building. The only issue there is with this situation is that the tape backups are done nightly so a disaster in my building at 4:30 pm (we officially end work at 5pm) then I'd only have the previous nights and prior backups on tape so that full day would "go up in smoke" so to speak. I'm not sure how I'd do it differently as we only have 1 server room.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
March 2, 2009 at 5:53 pm
I think asking why is probably not asked often enough. So many of the questions that come by are just a little off. You know the kind that makes you think, "Huh, why would the guy be asking this, oh well, time to answer it." I don't feel like I ask why often enough. I'm always kicking myself after I've answered the question and Gail or Jeff or someone comes by and asks why. Then I find out I just showed someone how to load a gun and point it at their feet.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 2, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Bob Hovious (3/2/2009)
Gail and Steve, I understand why you always want to discuss the full problem when you see someone about to go seriously wrong. But there is the point I hesitated to make clearly.Unlike the situation at Gail's workplace, a lot of newcomers here don't know who has the expertise and who doesn't. Maybe Mh does, I don't know. They don't know that their question has been asked many times before, and they certainly don't know all the guru's personal opinions or frustrations.
Not knowing that, it is really easy for a newbie to read Gail's "Why?" and Jeff's "Why do you want to do this to a perfectly good database?" as sarcastic arrogance which I don't believe was intended by either of them. [ At least not in this case 😉 ] It makes the people who actually answered look so much friendlier and more helpful, even though they may be giving bad advice. If the OP takes a bad solution and runs, what has been accomplished?
All I'm saying is give them a little more to reason to discuss their situation with you.
Heh... Ok, ok.... I'll ask them what kind of BBQ sauce they want with their pork chops from now on. 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 2, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Bob Hovious (3/2/2009)
Gail and Steve, I understand why you always want to discuss the full problem when you see someone about to go seriously wrong. But there is the point I hesitated to make clearly.Unlike the situation at Gail's workplace, a lot of newcomers here don't know who has the expertise and who doesn't. Maybe Mh does, I don't know. They don't know that their question has been asked many times before, and they certainly don't know all the guru's personal opinions or frustrations.
Not knowing that, it is really easy for a newbie to read Gail's "Why?" and Jeff's "Why do you want to do this to a perfectly good database?" as sarcastic arrogance which I don't believe was intended by either of them. [ At least not in this case 😉 ] It makes the people who actually answered look so much friendlier and more helpful, even though they may be giving bad advice. If the OP takes a bad solution and runs, what has been accomplished?
All I'm saying is give them a little more to reason to discuss their situation with you.
BWAA-HAA!!! And, maybe, just maybe, my "WHY" questions up to now have been a little less obnoxious than the following when someone brought up the possible need for a cursor... and I quote from http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic662250-338-1.aspx#bm663072... 😛
Bob Hovious (2/23/2009)
You said a dirty word... I can't hear you... lalalalalaLAlalALALALALAAAAAAAA
Heh... Cast only stones you don't mind catching... 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 3, 2009 at 7:57 am
'Why' is a word that often times puts a user on the defensive.
'What' are you tryinig to accomplish? at times can help get requirements out.
Role of Business - state the problem / requirements
Role of IT - Architect solution
All too often, we run into the user trying to tell us what to build and how.
Hard cycle to break.
Although it can be rather interesting to have them 'refresh' an Excel file that 'only takes a couple minutes'.
Seems to always take much longer.
Greg E
March 3, 2009 at 1:06 pm
I think Greg stated it well. Don't put the OP on the defensive.
As for my calling a "cursor" a dirty word.... I wasn't trying to get more information out of the OP 😉
By the way, did the OP in question ever respond to you and/or Gail?
Or is he out there doing it anyway, clumsily, and with worse code?
*spider-sense tingling!!! ... incoming pork chop imminent* :w00t:
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
March 3, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Bob Hovious (3/3/2009)
I think Greg stated it well. Don't put the OP on the defensive.As for my calling a "cursor" a dirty word.... I wasn't trying to get more information out of the OP 😉
By the way, did the OP in question ever respond to you and/or Gail?
Or is he out there doing it anyway, clumsily, and with worse code?
*spider-sense tingling!!! ... incoming pork chop imminent* :w00t:
Heh... not to worry... I was just bustin' your "chops"... we all have a little fun, now and then, and I actually thought it was funny as hell.
So far as I know, the OP is out there doing something stupid. It's not like I asked for a pound of flesh... I asked "Why do you want to do this? What are the business requirements that require this?" If they don't want to take the time to answer a nice, straight forward question like that, then I have other people to help especially since those types of people are the ones that will paste 600 lines of crap code and 20 lines of non-consumable test data. I just don't have the patience to play tag with people 10 or 20 times trying to get a reasonable explanation out of folks like some of you. Lynn is a master at it... he's also a fully Cannonized "Saint" for both his patience and tenacity... heh... I'm just a "Cardinal" with some holy water to spread if people will let me.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 3, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Greg Edwards (3/3/2009)
'What' are you tryinig to accomplish? at times can help get requirements out.
Tried that several times... That's about the time that some of the arrogant buggers come out with "I already told you... what... are you stupid? " I've had it happen to me and have seen it happen to many others. That's when the big pork chops with the 3 pound bone in them come out. 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 3, 2009 at 4:15 pm
3 pound bone?!?
I want a picture.
March 3, 2009 at 4:29 pm
[font="Verdana"]Do we get a pic of Lynn being "cannonised", and Jeff in a cardinal's frock?[/font]
March 3, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Bruce W Cassidy (3/3/2009)
[font="Verdana"]Do we get a pic of Lynn being "cannonised", and Jeff in a cardinal's frock?[/font]
Heh... there already was one somewhere in the more than 2100 posts on "the thread".
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Viewing 15 posts - 2,131 through 2,145 (of 66,712 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply