Are the posted questions getting worse?

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Are the posted questions getting worse?

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Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004378 More actions · Answer 1

Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/21/2010)
Paul White NZ (9/21/2010)
...
The current SQL development model is to address a small number of main product features in each new major release. The downside to that is that the shiny new features introduced last time are unlikely to get much love in the following release (bug fixes and small impact enhancements only).
I'd agree. The improvements to features are slow to come. The engine stability, and speed seems to improve, but other features barely move at times. It took a number of evolutions for log shipping to improve, maintenance plans have hardly moved and still have bugs. MS doesn't seem to want to look back. I still see SSRS issues that have been around, even though the product gets lots more shiny new controls all the time.

I'd rather see improvements to Pivot and Unpivot. MS Access version of Pivot is the bee's-knees compared to SQL Server's Pivot.

That notwithstanding, how many of you use the "wonderful" new HierarchyID datatype?

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

The Dixie Flatline SSC Guru Points: 53354 More actions · Answer 2

Craig Farrell (10/19/2010)
jcrawf02 (10/19/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (10/19/2010)
jcrawf02 (10/19/2010)
...and, because I'm a complete and utter dork, it's almost 5, and I think it's funny, I'll repeat a poll I did at work today, assuming you guys will get it much faster.
If I said something was "For the greater good", would you get the literary reference, and what do you think it was from?
Wrong answers I got were hilarious:
•Nine inch nails
•Utilitarianism
•A Greater Good (History 1998–2008), an album by Neuroticfish
•The Greater Good, the unifying philosophy of the Tau in the table-top wargame Warhammer 40,000
•STEVE Murray (supposed to be Bill Murray)
•Animal Farm
Xena Warrior Princess?
Damn, I defy anyone to top that.
Care Bears

This is not the Gummi way.

__________________________________________________

Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 3

I just had my rear windshield shot out as I was pulling into my driveway. Called the police to report it. They won't come out and investigate unless i have the casings. They want me to file the report online. How absolutely moronic is that?

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

Ron McCullough SSC Guru Points: 63877 More actions · Answer 4

Let's hope what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

Ron

Please help us, help you -before posting a question please read[/url]
Before posting a performance problem please read[/url]

Jack Corbett SSC Guru Points: 184394 More actions · Answer 5

CirquedeSQLeil (10/19/2010)
I just had my rear windshield shot out as I was pulling into my driveway. Called the police to report it. They won't come out and investigate unless i have the casings. They want me to file the report online. How absolutely moronic is that?

Wow, that's amazing. Both that you had your windshield shot out AND that the police wont' come out.

Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question

Sioban Krzywicki One Orange Chip Points: 27770 More actions · Answer 6

Greg Edwards-268690 (10/19/2010)
Stefan Krzywicki (10/19/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (10/19/2010)
Alvin Ramard (10/19/2010)
Stefan Krzywicki (10/19/2010)
Alvin Ramard (10/19/2010)
Steve, do we have an award for this one?
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic1007106-392-1.aspx
Should give him a Lincoln award for preserving the Union.
... and people say MY jokes are bad? 😛
Edit: Just can't get my fingers and brain to work at the same speed.
And for all the little Lincolns gathered as others throw their 2 cents worth in?
Seems to have gotten scared off, hope they come back and see there are a few good tips to be found.
I got the impression that they may be someone who would be willing to learn and possibly given a bit more context to the problem if suggestions were made.
Greg E
I'm hoping he wasn't scared of, but is trying to implement some of the suggestions. A query like that can take a long time to rewrite.
They came back. Final query - no unions, 9 sec runtime.
They were worth making suggestions to.
Greg E

That is great!

--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams

Sioban Krzywicki One Orange Chip Points: 27770 More actions · Answer 7

jcrawf02 (10/19/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (10/19/2010)
jcrawf02 (10/19/2010)
...and, because I'm a complete and utter dork, it's almost 5, and I think it's funny, I'll repeat a poll I did at work today, assuming you guys will get it much faster.
If I said something was "For the greater good", would you get the literary reference, and what do you think it was from?
Wrong answers I got were hilarious:
•Nine inch nails
•Utilitarianism
•A Greater Good (History 1998–2008), an album by Neuroticfish
•The Greater Good, the unifying philosophy of the Tau in the table-top wargame Warhammer 40,000
•STEVE Murray (supposed to be Bill Murray)
•Animal Farm
Xena Warrior Princess?
Damn, I defy anyone to top that.

The 1970s Buck Rodgers.

--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams

jcrawf02 SSC-Insane Points: 24198 More actions · Answer 8

CirquedeSQLeil (10/19/2010)
I just had my rear windshield shot out as I was pulling into my driveway. Called the police to report it. They won't come out and investigate unless i have the casings. They want me to file the report online. How absolutely moronic is that?

Unless you have the casings? If you had those, why the hell would you need them, you'd have taken care of the problem yourself? File a report - with your local news station. Six On Your Side, or whatever.

It's an old joke, but maybe it's the truth. A guy calls the police and says that somebody is breaking into his house, he needs somebody to come arrest them. The cops say it'll take half an hour. He says they're breaking in NOW, can't you send somebody? They say, sorry, we're busy, it'll be half an hour. He thanks them and hangs up.

A minute later he calls again and tells them not to bother, he shot and killed them, so it's not a problem anymore. Two minutes later a cruiser comes screaming around the corner and they catch the burglar, unshot. The officer says "I thought you said you shot him?", and the guy says, "I thought you said it'd be half an hour?"

---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]

"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."

Sioban Krzywicki One Orange Chip Points: 27770 More actions · Answer 9

Jeff Moden (10/19/2010)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/21/2010)
Paul White NZ (9/21/2010)
...
The current SQL development model is to address a small number of main product features in each new major release. The downside to that is that the shiny new features introduced last time are unlikely to get much love in the following release (bug fixes and small impact enhancements only).
I'd agree. The improvements to features are slow to come. The engine stability, and speed seems to improve, but other features barely move at times. It took a number of evolutions for log shipping to improve, maintenance plans have hardly moved and still have bugs. MS doesn't seem to want to look back. I still see SSRS issues that have been around, even though the product gets lots more shiny new controls all the time.
I'd rather see improvements to Pivot and Unpivot. MS Access version of Pivot is the bee's-knees compared to SQL Server's Pivot.
That notwithstanding, how many of you use the "wonderful" new HierarchyID datatype?

I've looked into it, but haven't really seen a need to yet. I don't see where the improvement is except in really specific circumstances. I showed it to the .Net developer I work with and he loved it, so maybe I'm missing something.

--------------------------------------
When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
--------------------------------------
It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams

jcrawf02 SSC-Insane Points: 24198 More actions · Answer 10

wow, this is cool.

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2010/10/architectural-entertainment?utm_source=Feedburner:+Frontpage+Partial+RSS+Feed&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Torcom/Frontpage_Partial+(Tor.com+Frontpage+Partial+-+Blog+and+Stories)

---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]

"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 11

jcrawf02 (10/19/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (10/19/2010)
I just had my rear windshield shot out as I was pulling into my driveway. Called the police to report it. They won't come out and investigate unless i have the casings. They want me to file the report online. How absolutely moronic is that?
Unless you have the casings? If you had those, why the hell would you need them, you'd have taken care of the problem yourself? File a report - with your local news station. Six On Your Side, or whatever.
It's an old joke, but maybe it's the truth. A guy calls the police and says that somebody is breaking into his house, he needs somebody to come arrest them. The cops say it'll take half an hour. He says they're breaking in NOW, can't you send somebody? They say, sorry, we're busy, it'll be half an hour. He thanks them and hangs up.
A minute later he calls again and tells them not to bother, he shot and killed them, so it's not a problem anymore. Two minutes later a cruiser comes screaming around the corner and they catch the burglar, unshot. The officer says "I thought you said you shot him?", and the guy says, "I thought you said it'd be half an hour?"

I thought it was a joke too - but apparently not around here. They said they might come and take a look after ten days. I told them not to bother - I was disgusted.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 12

Jack Corbett (10/19/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (10/19/2010)
I just had my rear windshield shot out as I was pulling into my driveway. Called the police to report it. They won't come out and investigate unless i have the casings. They want me to file the report online. How absolutely moronic is that?
Wow, that's amazing. Both that you had your windshield shot out AND that the police wont' come out.

Tell me about it. What does it take to get the police to investigate?

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004378 More actions · Answer 13

Stefan Krzywicki (10/19/2010)
Jeff Moden (10/19/2010)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (9/21/2010)
Paul White NZ (9/21/2010)
...
The current SQL development model is to address a small number of main product features in each new major release. The downside to that is that the shiny new features introduced last time are unlikely to get much love in the following release (bug fixes and small impact enhancements only).
I'd agree. The improvements to features are slow to come. The engine stability, and speed seems to improve, but other features barely move at times. It took a number of evolutions for log shipping to improve, maintenance plans have hardly moved and still have bugs. MS doesn't seem to want to look back. I still see SSRS issues that have been around, even though the product gets lots more shiny new controls all the time.
I'd rather see improvements to Pivot and Unpivot. MS Access version of Pivot is the bee's-knees compared to SQL Server's Pivot.
That notwithstanding, how many of you use the "wonderful" new HierarchyID datatype?
I've looked into it, but haven't really seen a need to yet. I don't see where the improvement is except in really specific circumstances. I showed it to the .Net developer I work with and he loved it, so maybe I'm missing something.

That's why I put "wonderful" in quotes. I believe I'd rather do the conversion to a nested set but haven't tried the HierarchyID thing yet. Oddly enough, you still have to build it with "lasagne" code just as if you build the Hierarchical path column with either a While Loop or (ugh!) recursive CTE.

I also thought it odd that they'd do such a thing instead of fixing things like PIVOT and the windowing functions.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 14

Jeff Moden (10/19/2010)
I do fear the same thing that Paul White does... if their implementation is no more effective than what they did with Pivot and Unpivot, the I'd just as soon not see the implementation in 11.

Yeah PIVOT was a real opportunity missed. UNPIVOT is a much more useful addition to the language.

I'd rather they take their time to do it correctly.

Sadly I'm not sure there's always a correlation there.

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 15

Jeff Moden (10/19/2010)
I prefer your simplified row number checker. It doesn't slow down much and doesn't have problems with unbalanced sets that Hugo's code does.

Thanks. My one remaining concern with it is what to do if an error is detected. I guess it depends on the circumstances, but it seems a shame to have to code a second implementation 'just in case'.

The worst case performance of the set-based iteration method is poor, I agree. From memory, it's worse than a cursor with one 'set', but that's not a common circumstance is it?

As you might guess, my preference remains for a SQLCLR solution in most cases, especially now I can use Adam's QP engine to run multiple threads, and bulk copy the results out.

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi