November 30, 2008 at 7:03 am
rbarryyoung (11/29/2008)
Lynn Pettis (11/29/2008)
I just find it pretentious to list all those certs. It begs the question, who is he trying to impress.Probably himself. Seriously. It's easy enough to forget, but it can be embarrassing to have to ask for help, especially in public and especially in an area that is supposed to be your professional expertise. And this can be an intimidating place sometimes, there are a lot of MVP's and other heavyweights who can make even the lurkers feel dumb without intending too.
And I'll freely admit that it embarrasses me too. Like everyone else, I don't know everything, even in SQL Server (well, Gail might know everything, she's pretty darn close), however, when I cannot figure something out for myself in a reasonable time I might post it here (I'm not going to post it somewhere else, right?). The thing is, I always feel like I'm damaging my credibility by having to ask. And that's me, I've got a lot of points over on the left to make me feel better.
So, I am sure that some of the stuff that we see (list of certs, titles, "Senior" titles, posturing, constraints about how we should answer them, etc.) are really just insecurity and embarrassment coming out. The best fix for that is to treat them with respect, and they usually get over it.
Mind you, I certainly understand the need to blow off some steam, too... 😀
Huh.
I'm a bit different there. I do my due diligence to find the solution (usually involving LOTS of reading in various books, magazines and web sites) then I post away. Even if I've missed something stupid simple, which is surprisingly often, I need help and this is the place to get it.
It's that part about RTFM that really irks me in others though.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
November 30, 2008 at 7:12 am
I'm sort of loving the long weekend. I'm busting butt on the stupid book and I'm chain-sawing & splitting wood to get ready for the winter.
Broke a chain for the first time yesterday. Great big tree I was taking apart had a bunch of wire inside. The broke chain wipped around and touch my face & shirt. I thought I had I just laid my self open. I didn't even look. I just walked back to the house & hollared for my wife. I asked her if she saw blood. Everything was good, but I was well & thoroughly freaked. Bad news was I broke the blade as well as the chain so I had to go to the store. Put my whole schedule off. Went back to chain-sawing (expect on that evil tree) then split a whole row. Just splitting today.
Oh well, back to Chapter 12, Blocking Analysis.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
November 30, 2008 at 7:31 am
Jonathan Kehayias (11/29/2008)
Jeff Moden (11/29/2008)
Jonathan Kehayias (11/29/2008)
I'll never understand the attitude that I see people take, when the post a simple question and someone posts a BOL reference instead of just spoon feeding them the answer.Which person's attitude? The person asking or the person providing the BOL reference? Hard to tell from what you've written... I think you're talking about the attitude of the person asking.
The person asking. It is almost amazing to me to see someone ask for help and then tell a Jeff Moden or Matt Miller, or Gail Shaw that "If I wanted a @#$%#$% to post a reference to the books online I would have done a search myself." or some other inappropriate response similar to this.
For a minute there, I thought you were taking exception to posting the BOL reference... man, am I glad I was wrong! 😀 I had to laugh at your quote above, because I've actually had that happen to me... I just couldn't believe it.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 30, 2008 at 7:36 am
Grant Fritchey (11/30/2008)
The broke chain wipped around and touch my face & shirt.
Wow... last guy I heard of that happening to had to have major reconstructive surgery... you're a lucky man, Grant. Since I heard of the first guy I just spoke of, I wear a full face shield and a heavy scarf to protect the neck. A wee bit warm for the summer months, but I've just heard of too many accidents to want to take the chance ever again.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 30, 2008 at 8:08 am
Well, it was a thrilling moment, I don't mind saying. I'll be picking up one of those integrated face sheild/helmet/ear protection things soon (read ASAP). First time in 10 years of using a chainsaw.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
November 30, 2008 at 9:19 am
Jeff Moden (11/30/2008)
For a minute there, I thought you were taking exception to posting the BOL reference... man, am I glad I was wrong! 😀 I had to laugh at your quote above, because I've actually had that happen to me... I just couldn't believe it.
I was completely floored when I got that kind of response the first time. I don't see any problem with someone providing the BOL links to answer a question, but I would have problem with someone posting RTFM as a part of the response, that is condescending and not really necessary. We all see those posts that make us ask "Really?". I just move on, and let someone else grab the lower hanging fruit when I feel that way. My attitude for the day really has a lot to do with it.
Jonathan Kehayias | Principal Consultant | MCM: SQL Server 2008
My Blog | Twitter | MVP Profile
Training | Consulting | Become a SQLskills Insider
Troubleshooting SQL Server: A Guide for Accidental DBAs[/url]
November 30, 2008 at 11:00 am
Jonathan Kehayias (11/30/2008)
I was completely floored when I got that kind of response the first time.
I think I've seen just about everything. From that to the "Who are you to correct me?" through to the "I said only experts! No noobies! Expert answers only pls?"
I think the best though was when I got cursed and sworn at (literally) for daring to suggest to someone that perhaps truncating the transaction log regularly was not the best of ideas.
Disclaimer: Most of that was not here. Posters here are civil and polite compared to some other forums.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
November 30, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Agree with Gail on that. The moderated forums and boards are great places to work for all but the most rare of exceptions that don't exist for very long because they are cleaned out to keep the environment professional and pleasant. Some of the unmoderated groups and newsgroups on the other hand can be quite challenging to work with the ego and attitude associated with people who "need desperate help".
Jonathan Kehayias | Principal Consultant | MCM: SQL Server 2008
My Blog | Twitter | MVP Profile
Training | Consulting | Become a SQLskills Insider
Troubleshooting SQL Server: A Guide for Accidental DBAs[/url]
November 30, 2008 at 7:35 pm
I know Steve will step in on very rare occasions, but, for the most part, nothing get's moderated out of the forums on SQLServerCentral.com. What you see, is what you get.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
November 30, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Jonathan Kehayias (11/30/2008)
Agree with Gail on that. The moderated forums and boards are great places to work for all but the most rare of exceptions that don't exist for very long because they are cleaned out to keep the environment professional and pleasant. Some of the unmoderated groups and newsgroups on the other hand can be quite challenging to work with the ego and attitude associated with people who "need desperate help".
Hear, hear. 20 years ago I interacted a lot on the Usenet groups. What a mud pit. Many wonderful nuggets of information buried in tons of flames, posers, off topic jabber and other noise. Eventually I just gave up on it.
[font="Times New Roman"]-- RBarryYoung[/font], [font="Times New Roman"] (302)375-0451[/font] blog: MovingSQL.com, Twitter: @RBarryYoung[font="Arial Black"]
Proactive Performance Solutions, Inc. [/font][font="Verdana"] "Performance is our middle name."[/font]
November 30, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Glad to hear you're OK, GRant, that's a scary story. I always worry when I'm working with power tools.
I try not to step in and let things run on their own where possible. While I think RTFM is a little rude, it fits in some places. I do try to email people that are rude about responses to let them know it's not appropriate. Usually people understand and apologize. Everyone once in awhile I get a nice rude response in my email.
December 1, 2008 at 5:01 am
Grant, glad there were no serious injuries. Another reason why I heat with oil. Even the past couple of years:P
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
December 1, 2008 at 5:18 am
Grant Fritchey (11/30/2008)
Well, it was a thrilling moment, I don't mind saying. I'll be picking up one of those integrated face sheild/helmet/ear protection things soon (read ASAP). First time in 10 years of using a chainsaw.
I'm glad to hear you're OK after all.
Over here, you no longer get an chop down permit it you don't show up with your mandatory personal safety measures .
Johan
Learn to play, play to learn !
Dont drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ...
but keeping both feet on the ground wont get you anywhere :w00t:
- How to post Performance Problems
- How to post data/code to get the best help[/url]
- How to prevent a sore throat after hours of presenting ppt
press F1 for solution, press shift+F1 for urgent solution 😀
Need a bit of Powershell? How about this
Who am I ? Sometimes this is me but most of the time this is me
December 1, 2008 at 5:50 am
Permits? We don't need no stinking permits.
Seriously though, the main reason I keep coming back here, well, in addition to learning something every single day, is that the tone is largely professional (not counting the humor, pork chops should fly on occasion) which makes it much easier to learn and to help out.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
December 1, 2008 at 6:37 am
Grant Fritchey (12/1/2008)
Permits? We don't need no stinking permits.
That's why it is considered a nation wide sports (over here) to try to avoid the rules whenever you can ... 😀
Do it by the book and you'll pay for it .... do it as you can and you may get away with it 😉
Seriously though, the main reason I keep coming back here, well, in addition to learning something every single day, is that the tone is largely professional (not counting the humor, pork chops should fly on occasion) which makes it much easier to learn and to help out.
100% with you :w00t::cool:
Johan
Learn to play, play to learn !
Dont drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ...
but keeping both feet on the ground wont get you anywhere :w00t:
- How to post Performance Problems
- How to post data/code to get the best help[/url]
- How to prevent a sore throat after hours of presenting ppt
press F1 for solution, press shift+F1 for urgent solution 😀
Need a bit of Powershell? How about this
Who am I ? Sometimes this is me but most of the time this is me
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