Are the posted questions getting worse?

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Are the posted questions getting worse?

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TomThomson SSC Guru Points: 104773 More actions · Answer 1

Paul White NZ (7/16/2010)
I thought Scots melted at 16°C :laugh:

Well this Scot is distinctly unhappy with weather below 24°C when the sun is high. That's why I live at about 28º latitude for two thirds of the year. Of course 16ºC is acceptable in the small hours when I'm in bed and the sun is invisible.

The summer has gone wrong here (at 53º N latitude: I'm in the other third of the year now), It's only 19:00, we've had a deluge (6 inches of water running through the street) and the temperature is down to only 21°C already. I hope it'll be a bit warmer in a couple of weeks time (I'll be in Scotland, so even if it's not I'll have some compensation).

Tom

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736270 More actions · Answer 2

I emailed the guy, asking him to watch his language, and querying what he thought his boss, or his next interviewer, might think about his tone.

Not sure it will help, but that, along with a lovely complaint about Mr. Celko has made this a less than enjoyable day.

TomThomson SSC Guru Points: 104773 More actions · Answer 3

Gianluca Sartori (7/16/2010)
BTW, the Scottish half doesn't feel comfortable with today's 36°C here in Venice.

Some people have all the luck and don't appreciate it!

Tom

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 4

Grant Fritchey (7/16/2010)
At this point the guy (?) is just a troll.

I agree. ~~If I were Steve, I'd be having a quiet word right about now.~~

~~Not that Steve needs my advice, I'm just sayin'.~~

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736270 More actions · Answer 5

Lynn Pettis (7/16/2010)
Grant Fritchey (7/16/2010)
Lynn Pettis (7/16/2010)
I guess some people think it isn't unprofessional to call someone stupid in professional site such as SSC.
I hope I wasn't ambiguous in my last response to this particular individual.
At this point the guy (?) is just a troll. The one major weakness of social interaction on the internet is that people who deserve a spanking just can't be given one. All that bluster & attitude would disappear in a Tokyo second if the little so&so was personally called on that behavior.
It's the same reason I turn off interactive voice when I'm playing games online. I don't want to listen to pathetic dweebs talking smack from the comfort of their living rooms.
You are right, but I felt it necessary to call him on it. The only other option we have is to ignore any further posts from, but then the question is "are we behaving professionally."
Perhaps, if we simply start ignore that particular thread at least, until (or unless) such behaviour occurs elsewhere as well.

I would cease to respond on that thread. You all are aware of what they say about arguing with fools and zealots, I assume?

TomThomson SSC Guru Points: 104773 More actions · Answer 6

Paul White NZ (7/16/2010)
Grant Fritchey (7/16/2010)
At this point the guy (?) is just a troll.
I agree. ~~If I were Steve, I'd be having a quiet word right about now.~~
~~Not that Steve needs my advice, I'm just sayin'.~~

You gave him some ammunition telling him there was no "throw" Paul. Surely in T-SQL "throw" is called "raiserror"?

Tom

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 7

Tom.Thomson (7/16/2010)
You gave him some ammunition telling him there was no "throw" Paul. Surely in T-SQL "throw" is called "raiserror"?

Sort of, but not really. You're very limited in the 'errors' that can be created that way (try simulating any of the built-in errors with RAISERROR) and it is treated differently, as hinted at by the Connect item I linked to. There's definitely no 'finally' clause.

It's not that the guy doesn't have any sort of point at all - TSQL error handling is a mess, and so is most of the non-core-SQL language in all honesty. I just object to his attitude and his failure to give anyone that disagrees with him any sort of credit.

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi

Ben Teraberry SSChampion Points: 11845 More actions · Answer 8

I guess it depends on what you mean by being a mess. I find the error handling in T-SQL very underwhelming, but every single example I've seen results in the exact way I would expect. I fail to see unpredictability or ambiguity ... the former being his initial point and the latter being his fall-back.

└> bt

Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736270 More actions · Answer 9

I think his initial argument seemed to be that the way he was upgrading his code (lower stack stored procedures) to the new error handling resulted in changes. It's valid, but it's a little silly. I think this is a poor way to go about upgrading to 2005.

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 10

bteraberry (7/16/2010)
I guess it depends on what you mean by being a mess. I find the error handling in T-SQL very underwhelming, but every single example I've seen results in the exact way I would expect. I fail to see unpredictability or ambiguity ... the former being his initial point and the latter being his fall-back.

By a 'mess', I mean pretty much what I said on the thread: there are four possible results from an error condition, and there doesn't seem to be any logic to which error does what. The dependency on obscure settings like ARITHABORT, NUMERIC_ROUNDABORT, ANSI_WARNINGS, and ARITHIGNORE is just the icing on the cake.

It's easy to find examples of error conditions that merely abandon the current statement, and continue executing the batch, while conceptually less serious errors abort the whole batch. Dumbness abounds.

Don't get me wrong: I think the guy's a dick, and I don't agree with his main points, but he does have a right to whine about the problems he perceives. It's just the manner that bugs me.

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 11

Steve Jones - Editor (7/16/2010)
I think his initial argument seemed to be that the way he was upgrading his code (lower stack stored procedures) to the new error handling resulted in changes. It's valid, but it's a little silly. I think this is a poor way to go about upgrading to 2005.

And it's a little ironic since Microsoft never planned to introduce TRY...CATCH, it was added late due to pressure from SQL Server users. Now they complain!

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004363 More actions · Answer 12

Gianluca Sartori (7/16/2010)
Paul White NZ (7/15/2010)
Jeff Moden (7/15/2010)
Can you good folks give me an example of when IDENTITY will not work?
When you need a sequence across several tables
When you need to pre-allocate a range of sequence values to a process
When you need to guarantee that multi-row inserts will obtain a contiguous range
When you absolutely cannot have gaps
I would dare to add:
When you have to guarantee uniqueness of keys between eterogeneous systems.
And my favourite one:
When some genius coded it that way 10 years ago and switching to identity would mean looking for long lasting trouble.

Thanks folks (includig Tom T in that). Thank goodness I've been able to avoid most of those scenarios and, oddly enough, using IDENTITY in combination with some table and index hints, have been able to resolve the ones I haven't be able to avoid (guaranteed multi-row inserts over a contiguous range of numbers with absolutely no gaps).

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Kit G SSCrazy Points: 2888 More actions · Answer 13

Grant Fritchey (7/16/2010)
To know for sure you'd need to consult a lawyer. But since it's a non-exclusive license, I'm pretty sure that means you retain copyright. Just make sure it mentions somewhere in the document who has copyright.

Thanks Grant. Doing a bit more research into WEbooks threw up a few red flags for me, not particularly big ones, but red flags all the same. The main one being their license to archive the posted material, the other being no provisions about removing posted content and/or revoking the license to print the material on their web site. It's probaby needed legalese so they don't have to go back to their backups that have been archived onto disk and redo them to remove your archived posts. But still, it's something I'm not quite comfortable with.

Guess I'll do some more looking. 🙂

-- Kit

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150467 More actions · Answer 14

Jeff Moden (7/16/2010)
...using IDENTITY in combination with some table and index hints, have been able to resolve the ones I haven't be able to avoid (guaranteed multi-row inserts over a contiguous range of numbers with absolutely no gaps).

TABLOCKX?

Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736270 More actions · Answer 15

Kit G (7/16/2010)
Grant Fritchey (7/16/2010)
To know for sure you'd need to consult a lawyer. But since it's a non-exclusive license, I'm pretty sure that means you retain copyright. Just make sure it mentions somewhere in the document who has copyright.
Thanks Grant. Doing a bit more research into WEbooks threw up a few red flags for me, not particularly big ones, but red flags all the same. The main one being their license to archive the posted material, the other being no provisions about removing posted content and/or revoking the license to print the material on their web site. It's probaby needed legalese so they don't have to go back to their backups that have been archived onto disk and redo them to remove your archived posts. But still, it's something I'm not quite comfortable with.
Guess I'll do some more looking. 🙂

I think Simple Talk uses LuLu.